Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Jwink]

The programs should have continued but we had a president that insisted that we were rounding the corner and said we needed to open up again and refused to believe scientists.

This

 

[Lilofan]

The programs should have continued but we had a president that insisted that we were rounding the corner and said we needed to open up again and refused to believe scientists.

If he handled it successfully and not proudly saying he downplayed it and will do it again, he would have been reelected.

 

[correcaminos]

If he handled it successfully and not proudly saying he downplayed it and will do it again, he would have been reelected.

Yeah there were other things that he on. There are many who still think he handled this well and follow him blindly.

 

[GoofGoof]

Good luck getting people to pay those large back sums.

There are no large back sums in most cases. Just like deferring school loans they just move your end date back. So if for example you had 15 years left on your mortgage and would be paid off in 2035 you stop making payments from June 2020 until June 2021 and when you pick up payments you still have 15 years left it just extends until 2036 now. If you don’t make your payments in 2036 for that extra year your house is foreclosed on just like any other mortgage would be if you didn’t pay it. In most cases the mortgage companies were waiving the interest for the 6 months or year you deferred but it varied by plan. Some offered a lump sum plan too so if you skipped payments for 6 months you could make a one time catch up payment or even spread it over 12 months. That was for people who wanted their mortgage to still end the same time.

 

[dreday3]

House passed $2000 stimulus payments, that was unexpected!

Of course good old Mitch will stop it.

 

[JoeCamel]

House passed $2000 stimulus payments, that was unexpected!

Of course good old Mitch will stop it.

Yeah, be amazed if that gets out by inauguration day, what a trainwreck

 

[DisneyCane]

Clearly you cannot have free movement between areas with different responses, otherwise they just keep importing more. This just stresses the importance of a national response, which didn’t happen. That with COVID it’s more difficult and expensive doesn’t mean we shouldn’t even try. Another reason a national response was needed, states and localities simply cannot fund it correctly. (Not suggesting we restrict movement between states, but that we need a single nationwide response.)

As above, that was a sticky catch phrase, but never the only goal of pandemic control.

I’ll never understand how people can think flattening was the only goal. An admission that 2+ million dead is fine and not worthy of a goal to reduce that. Just because its hard, doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try. The federal failure to do more than offer guidance has been doing exactly that, just giving up. While the actions needed, need to be implemented locally, the are only possible with federal coordination and funding.

What, specifically, do you suggest the national response should have been? I've yet to hear a suggestion that would actually work long term but didn't require long term lockdowns.

The reason that people (i.e. me) can think flattening was the only goal is because that is what Dr. Fauci stood up and told us it was. He drew pictures in the air with his finger and told us that mitigation was necessary to flatten the curve. The air picture he drew clearly showed he was illustrating the total cases not being that different but just spreading the outbreak over time.

 

[JoeCamel]

What, specifically, do you suggest the national response should have been? I've yet to hear a suggestion that would actually work long term but didn't require long term lockdowns.

The reason that people (i.e. me) can think flattening was the only goal is because that is what Dr. Fauci stood up and told us it was. He drew pictures in the air with his finger and told us that mitigation was necessary to flatten the curve. The air picture he drew clearly showed he was illustrating the total cases not being that different but just spreading the outbreak over time.

Stay at home with compensation to individuals and small/local businesses rather than PPP loans/grants to big business to start. This is what other countries have done If you give the people the money they need to survive it will "trickle up" as they have to spend it. 5 trillion was wasted/misdirected so now the cupboard is bare and the cry's of "how will we ever pay it back" are growing louder as the party in charge changes.
The government is broken and we need to stop playing sides

 

[Jrb1979]

What, specifically, do you suggest the national response should have been? I've yet to hear a suggestion that would actually work long term but didn't require long term lockdowns.

The reason that people (i.e. me) can think flattening was the only goal is because that is what Dr. Fauci stood up and told us it was. He drew pictures in the air with his finger and told us that mitigation was necessary to flatten the curve. The air picture he drew clearly showed he was illustrating the total cases not being that different but just spreading the outbreak over time.

Yes that was the goal originally. That also in hopes people would continue to follow the CDC guidelines. Avoiding non essential travel, avoiding family gatherings, wearing masks and social distancing. Its why where I am we are in lockdown again. Everybody wants businesses open but won't do the little things so they can be. The unfortunate thing is people had to people and many keep saying that ship has sailed so let's move on.

 

[DCBaker]

 

[GoofGoof]

What, specifically, do you suggest the national response should have been? I've yet to hear a suggestion that would actually work long term but didn't require long term lockdowns.

The reason that people (i.e. me) can think flattening was the only goal is because that is what Dr. Fauci stood up and told us it was. He drew pictures in the air with his finger and told us that mitigation was necessary to flatten the curve. The air picture he drew clearly showed he was illustrating the total cases not being that different but just spreading the outbreak over time.

Fauci also warned continuously of a second wave and the need to pull back on re-opening if cases warranted it. People just selectively remember what they want...but that’s politics for you. All about gotcha moments and catch phrases with no real substance.

 

[DisneyCane]

Fauci also warned continuously of a second wave and the need to pull back on re-opening if cases warranted it. People just selectively remember what they want...but that’s politics for you. All about gotcha moments and catch phrases with no real substance.

He did but the goal was still to flatten the curve in the second wave just like the first wave. Whenever he spoke of "mitigation" he always spoke of it in the context of keeping the curve flattened so the healthcare system wasn't overwhelmed.

 

[GoofGoof]

He did but the goal was still to flatten the curve in the second wave just like the first wave. Whenever he spoke of "mitigation" he always spoke of it in the context of keeping the curve flattened so the healthcare system wasn't overwhelmed.

Honestly, who cares at this point. We screwed up big time. Anyone who thinks the US response was good is smoking something funny Hopefully people don’t chose to fight the vaccine too and this will all be over soon.

 

[Turtlekrawl]

One of the reasons there aren't extra supplies of ventilators, masks, PPE, ICU wings is that the capitalized and commercialized for-profit health care system has zero incentive to stockpile (and keep the stockpile 'fresh') in case of emergencies. Privatized health care systems don't profit from such stockpiling. Nor are they required to do so.

However, stockpiling is what governments do since they're supposed to be ready for emergencies and it is bankrolled by the entire population.

But, it is hysterically ironic that you point to a failure in the current for-profit system and claim that's a property of a nationalized system. You really don't see that the thing you're pointing to is evidence of a failure of a privatized health care system? Because, it's proof positive. That you pointed out. Good on you.

Agree with much of this but do not agree that there is “zero incentive” for the private hospitals to stockpile. When the hospital does not have beds, ventilators, or PPE, they have to cancel elective surgeries, which is in many cases the financial engine for the system. Hospitals have learned from this and are now better prepared (except for ICU beds).

government may be better at stockpiling, but far from perfect. Thousands of the ventilators in the federal stockpile had not been serviced/maintained properly, and were rendered useless in April.

pros and cons...

 

[ParentsOf4]

Average daily rate of COVID cases per 100,000 over the last 7 days, according to the CDC:

 

[DisneyCane]

Honestly, who cares at this point. We screwed up big time. Anyone who thinks the US response was good is smoking something funny Hopefully people don’t chose to fight the vaccine too and this will all be over soon.

I'm not smoking anything. I don't classify the response as "good" but for different reasons. Most people saying what you said believe that a good response would have been nationwide restrictions. I think more focus should have been put on isolating the elderly with financial help for those living in multi-generational households to stay somewhere else and have essentials delivered and business restrictions should have been voluntary with businesses doing what they needed to attract customers. As you know, I believe in people having the freedom to choose what risk they want to take. You and I are never going to agree about that. Smoking is legal and a smoker has a 3-7 times higher chance of getting lung cancer.

I do share your hope about vaccine acceptance. That's why I'm fully in favor of some kind of proof of vaccination that allows vaccinated people to go back to normal and not have to wear masks, etc. I understand that the vaccine will not be 100% effective but I believe in the carrot approach to getting people to take it. The stick approach of threatening to have restrictions until whatever percentage Fauci decides to blurt out today are vaccinated will not work.

 

[DisneyCane]

I read the first link. It tells you to stay home in Section 2 unless you are engaging in something from Section 3.

And in Section 3, you can essentially be out and about to grocery shop, pick up takeout, go to the bank, pick up the dry cleaning, get your pool cleaned, buy a lawn mower to mow your lawn, take your dog to the vet, and get gas and pick up a Slurpee from 7 Eleven.

A lockdown means if you open your door and go walk down your driveway you will be fined and/or arrested. You can go grocery shopping alone on your designated timeslot of Tuesday from 10am-11am. Try and go visit a friend across town and you'll be pulled over and potentially arrested. There is no such thing as takeout from a restaurant. That is what other countries did and that is a lockdown.

Define it how you want but, to me, when a government tells me what I am allowed to leave my house to do and that I can be arrested for leaving to do something else it is a lockdown to me. Some people under house arrest are allowed to go to work or school, are they not locked down?

 

[GoofGoof]

I'm not smoking anything. I don't classify the response as "good" but for different reasons. Most people saying what you said believe that a good response would have been nationwide restrictions. I think more focus should have been put on isolating the elderly with financial help for those living in multi-generational households to stay somewhere else and have essentials delivered and business restrictions should have been voluntary with businesses doing what they needed to attract customers. As you know, I believe in people having the freedom to choose what risk they want to take. You and I are never going to agree about that. Smoking is legal and a smoker has a 3-7 times higher chance of getting lung cancer.

People are allowed to take the risk and smoke...that’s on them. It’s illegal for them to smoke in a bar or restaurant today in most places because their right to take a risk and smoke infringes on other people‘s right to not breathe second hand smoke. Same goes for speed limits in a car. You can’t drive 100 MPH on a highway even though you may be willing to risk your well being because it can result in other people being hurt. With covid it was never about restricting you to keep you safe, it was always about restricting you (wear a mask, distance, no large groups) to keep you from infecting others just like second hand smoke or reckless driving. I say who cares, because quite frankly it’s all been said before too many times.

 

[Heppenheimer]

Agree with much of this but do not agree that there is “zero incentive” for the private hospitals to stockpile. When the hospital does not have beds, ventilators, or PPE, they have to cancel elective surgeries, which is in many cases the financial engine for the system. Hospitals have learned from this and are now better prepared (except for ICU beds).

government may be better at stockpiling, but far from perfect. Thousands of the ventilators in the federal stockpile had not been serviced/maintained properly, and were rendered useless in April.

pros and cons...

Just-in-time inventory is the world-wide model for hospital supply, not solely in the US. This system came from Japan, and spread throughout the industrialized world from there.

It has nothing to do with private vs. government. Public-administered hospitals are under the same pressures to streamline costs.

 

[GoofGoof]

I do share your hope about vaccine acceptance. That's why I'm fully in favor of some kind of proof of vaccination that allows vaccinated people to go back to normal and not have to wear masks, etc. I understand that the vaccine will not be 100% effective but I believe in the carrot approach to getting people to take it. The stick approach of threatening to have restrictions until whatever percentage Fauci decides to blurt out today are vaccinated will not work.

With the vaccine it’s a numbers game. Some percent of people vaccinated won’t be protected. The hope is if enough people get vaccinated that herd immunity protects the failed vaccinations like measles now. You have to reach herd immunity before pulling back all Covid restrictions. As the vaccine rolls out and cases drop there should be a gradual easing of restrictions. There won’t be a light switch where it’s all turned off at once. If enough people don’t take the vaccine it may be that we never reach herd immunity and covid sticks around. In that case I am fully behind proof of vaccine for any and all activities. Until the vaccine is readily available to anyone who wants it and/or cases drop low enough we won’t be able t9 go back to normal.