Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[correcaminos]

That's great. and I commend you for it! I think some of the best parts of this pandemic have been things individuals have stepped up and done for others.

But if you gave up your salary for 3 months, were you going without money you needed to pay your bills? Because that's what would be required of many if there was an actual hard shutdown.

There was an actual fairly hard shutdown here. Why else would we be giving our money to those in need? For 2.5 months essentials were only allowed. My friends in the service industries struggled because many became unemployed which prompted us to help. No day cares were open and really unless you got food/necessities you did not go out from mid March through the 1st of June.

My husband's company had a reduction in pay for management. Even IT who worked their behinds off to transfer jobs that normally unable to be done from home, took pay cuts. It allowed people to be paid who otherwise wouldn't. It allowed grace periods for clients struggling as well. They took care of others. Then personally we tried as well.

I'm again not for hard lock downs, but there are ways to survive it, but given how money grubbing people are, it won't happen here. Those who have don't give back enough. The government failed us and those in positions of power did as well. The rich get richer and the poor suffers.

 

[GoofGoof]

Look up Europe. And we’re mostly taking it seriously. God help the United States if the variants become prolific over there.

There’s some speculation it’s here already. I posted an article yesterday that they are in the process of testing in LA right now to see if it’s the new variant. It would explain why it’s spreading so much faster this time.

 

[Jrb1979]

There’s some speculation it’s here already. I posted an article yesterday that they are in the process of testing in LA right now to see if it’s the new variant. It would explain why it’s spreading so much faster this time.

It would make sense as there is reports of it in Canada already.

 

[GoofGoof]

There was an actual fairly hard shutdown here. Why else would we be giving our money to those in need? For 2.5 months essentials were only allowed. My friends in the service industries struggled because many became unemployed which prompted us to help. No day cares were open and really unless you got food/necessities you did not go out from mid March through the 1st of June.

My husband's company had a reduction in pay for management. Even IT who worked their behinds off to transfer jobs that normally unable to be done from home, took pay cuts. It allowed people to be paid who otherwise wouldn't. It allowed grace periods for clients struggling as well. They took care of others. Then personally we tried as well.

I'm again not for hard lock downs, but there are ways to survive it, but given how money grubbing people are, it won't happen here. Those who have don't give back enough. The government failed us and those in positions of power did as well. The rich get richer and the poor suffers.

The other aspect is that not all job loss is exclusively linked to government imposed lockdowns. My wife works for a small business that has essentially been shut down since March, she hasn’t worked a day. They were originally closed due to government orders but since May they have been allowed to do business again, but the demand just isn’t there. The pandemic has essentially killed the business. Some times it’s just easier to blame the government. In reality if we had a better plan of attack and more strict restrictions the business might have been better off over the long run.

 

[GoofGoof]

It would make sense as there is reports of it in Canada already.

I think we could maybe at least partially explain an explosion in cases in the Northern part of the US and Canada based on the weather. As it gets colder more people move indoors and that’s bad for Covid spread. But then you see what’s happening in Southern CA where it’s always 70 degrees and it’s definitely a bit puzzling. Not that there is a spike in cases, but that the spread is so much higher than previous spikes. If it’s a more contagious variant that could explain a lot. I guess we will know once they finish testing.

 

[Jrb1979]

The other aspect is that not all job loss is exclusively linked to government imposed lockdowns. My wife works for a small business that has essentially been shut down since March, she hasn’t worked a day. They were originally closed due to government orders but since May they have been allowed to do business again, but the demand just isn’t there. The pandemic has essentially killed the business. Some times it’s just easier to blame the government. In reality if we had a better plan of attack and more strict restrictions the business might have been better off over the long run.

While I agree with the majority of what you posted and that a better plan might have better off. Where i get frustrated is how people keep blaming those in power for this. When in actuality we as people failed. They warned us many times if WE didn't keep following guidelines that ICUs would fill and more deaths would happen.

 

[BrianLo]

There’s some speculation it’s here already. I posted an article yesterday that they are in the process of testing in LA right now to see if it’s the new variant. It would explain why it’s spreading so much faster this time.

Not to be a Debbie downer, but 100percent. One thing I unfortunately think we learned at the start is that the US is much worse at tracing and recognizing disease spread than we thought it would be in a modern era.

The North East was so bad before anyone even clued in it was there. For a time Canada’s entire caseload was just returning travelers from New York.

I think the fact several cases over geographic spread in Canada have been identified guarantees it’s also in the US. My worry is that unlike what we’ve seen the first case in the US will be from an unknown source; in which case it’s already too late.

 

[techgeek]

We feared this would get out of control, with bodies piling up, freezer trucks, first line medical workers dead and dying, and unable to support the dead and dying - further snowballing the problem.
People forget what the possible scenario was.
We didn't come remotely close to it - and yes, that was due in part to the measures we enacted which succeeded in keeping the ate of spread to a manageable one.

Most of the disagreements are because of the subjective interpretations of 'manageable' and 'acceptable'.

What might be viewed as an acceptable level of deaths to me might not be viewed as acceptable to you. When speaking in terms of our healthcare system, both of those numbers might be manageable, technically, but perhaps with a subjective moral or ethical cost attached to that management.

 

[correcaminos]

The other aspect is that not all job loss is exclusively linked to government imposed lockdowns. My wife works for a small business that has essentially been shut down since March, she hasn’t worked a day. They were originally closed due to government orders but since May they have been allowed to do business again, but the demand just isn’t there. The pandemic has essentially killed the business. Some times it’s just easier to blame the government. In reality if we had a better plan of attack and more strict restrictions the business might have been better off over the long run.

I work for a small business myself. There are only 4 of us. Only my boss could manage in once a week for a while to ship and such. It was rough. Fortunately our business picked up and we are doing well, but I know many friends who have not. Quite a few TAs are really struggling.

I do blame the government for not really thinking things through though and not supporting those who needed it most. While as people we can try to help others, not sticking to things and not being firm in ideas and help really hosed people. My state as I said was restricted a lot. Just got worse after opening up more and people not following good ideas. Now we're in a huge mess. I know it's not just the US for outbreaks. Friends globally reported people not following rules a lot of places. But in the same breath other places have done far superior.

 

[oceanbreeze77]

 

[oceanbreeze77]

 

[GoofGoof]

The 2 million number is quite dated by now. The CDC number of 2 million comes from the update on 12/26 at 9am and the site says that number vaccinated is on at least a 3 day reporting lag so in reality there were 2 million vaccinated by 12/22. We are still behind but it’s not as bad as 2 million with 3 days to go. It’s 2 million with 9 days to go and the 2 million only included 2 days of Moderna since it started a week later than Pfizer. I am hoping for another CDC update soon with more up to date numbers.

COVID Data Tracker

CDC’s home for COVID-19 data. Visualizations, graphs, and data in one easy-to-use website.

covid.cdc.gov

 

[GoofGoof]

I work for a small business myself. There are only 4 of us. Only my boss could manage in once a week for a while to ship and such. It was rough. Fortunately our business picked up and we are doing well, but I know many friends who have not. Quite a few TAs are really struggling.

I do blame the government for not really thinking things through though and not supporting those who needed it most. While as people we can try to help others, not sticking to things and not being firm in ideas and help really hosed people. My state as I said was restricted a lot. Just got worse after opening up more and people not following good ideas. Now we're in a huge mess. I know it's not just the US for outbreaks. Friends globally reported people not following rules a lot of places. But in the same breath other places have done far superior.

Yes, the government should have done more to help people. I agree. The damage to the businesses and the economy in general is not all due just to lockdowns. Much of it is just due to a worldwide pandemic. In other words, if we had no government restrictions the economy would still be in pretty bad shape.

 

[DCBaker]

Numbers are out - there were 96 new reported deaths, along with 3 Non-Florida Resident deaths.

 

[DCBaker]

"The Maryland biotech Novavax is starting a final, so-called Phase 3 clinical trial in the United States and Mexico for its experimental coronavirus vaccine, the company announced on Monday.

The little-known firm, which has never brought a vaccine to market before, received up to $1.6 billion from the federal government’s Operation Warp Speed this summer to expedite development. The company reported robust results in earlier phases of its trial, showing that the vaccine prompted strong immune responses in monkeys and people.

The company began a Phase 3 trial of 15,000 people in Britain in September and expects to report preliminary results from that study in the first quarter of next year. It had intended to start its U.S. trial in October but delayed it because of manufacturing problems.

The Novavax vaccine, known as NVX-CoV2373, works differently than the ones by Pfizer and other companies that have already been shown to be effective. It contains artificially produced viral proteins, along with an immune-boosting compound derived from the soapbark tree.

The vaccine, given in two doses, three weeks apart, is designed to teach the immune system to recognize the protein. Later, if vaccinated people get infected with coronaviruses, their antibodies can attack them, while immune cells can destroy virus-harboring cells.

NVX-CoV2373 must be kept refrigerated but does not require freezing, making its storage easier than the vaccines from Moderna and from Pfizer and BioNTech, which have to be transported at ultracold temperatures.

Three other protein-based coronavirus vaccines are also in Phase 3 trials in Australia, Canada and India.

Novavax will run its trial at 115 sites in the United States and Mexico, enrolling as many as 30,000 people. Two-thirds will receive the experimental vaccine, and the rest a placebo. Novavax said it would recruit a diverse group, including Black and Latino volunteers. They plan for one-quarter of their participants to be older than 65."

Covid-19: U.S. Air Travel Is Highest Since March, Despite Warnings (Published 2020)

Spain’s health ministry said it has registered 50,122 dead since the start of the pandemic. And a proposed law in New York would ban landlords from evicting most tenants.

www.nytimes.com

 

[DCBaker]

Current look at the Florida Vaccine report -

 

[drizgirl]

Initially the federal unemployment bonus on top of the state unemployment money easily covered the essential bills.

Some states had a base unemployment pay in the neighborhood of $300/week. So even with the bonus, it wasn't necessarily enough to cover what some older established workers made. Some with mortgages, kids in college, etc. Regardless, that ran out before my husband lost his job. And that also assumes that everyone who qualified had no issue filing for and receiving the payments in a time of pandemic, with local unemployment offices closed.

It became a 2 month long process for me to help my daughter file and receive benefits. Phone lines were busy and every time we got through we got a message saying all hold lines were full to try back later. We never did get through. The local office just had a notice on the door saying to call that number we couldn't get through on. I felt very sorry for anyone who really needed that money to live on.

 

[lazyboy97o]

PS. 1 hour 50 minutes between getting in the queue, and getting our box of In-N-Out comfort food. They had the queue set up like a Washington State Ferry line. ~20 rows of 6 cars that they would feed into the main parking lot, which began as 3 lines, that would merge into the main drive thru line (where the people with ordering pads were set up). I told DH, they should totally have vaccine distribution in the line.

Seems the rush of demand for In-N-Out has turned into a bit of a curse.

In-N-Out Burgers linked to 80 Colorado coronavirus cases

At least 80 In-N-Out Burger employees have tested positive for coronavirus, according to data published by the Colorado Department of Public Health & Environment.

www.fox5ny.com

 

[Jrb1979]

Some states had a base unemployment pay in the neighborhood of $300/week. So even with the bonus, it wasn't necessarily enough to cover what some older established workers made. Some with mortgages, kids in college, etc. Regardless, that ran out before my husband lost his job. And that also assumes that everyone who qualified had no issue filing for and receiving the payments in a time of pandemic, with local unemployment offices closed.

It became a 2 month long process for me to help my daughter file and receive benefits. Phone lines were busy and every time we got through we got a message saying all hold lines were full to try back later. We never did get through. The local office just had a notice on the door saying to call that number we couldn't get through on. I felt very sorry for anyone who really needed that money to live on.

I look at what was done here and wonder why it was never done in the US. The government covered 75% of wages for any business that has been affected by Covid. They are also giving rent relief for businesses as well. For people they have been giving those who are out of work $2000 a month.

 

[mmascari]

I agree that our overall response has been poor. We could have done so much more. Even in the best case scenario I think we would have still had some yo-yo effect. Take New Zealand as the gold star example. They did things right and cases zeroed out. They had 100 days of no new cases and then an outbreak hit. They immediately shifted to a pull back of public interaction and ramped up a test and tracing strategy. After the outbreak was contained they removed restrictions.

I would take a 100 day (3 month) yo-yo cycle. We’re running more like 30 or 14 days now, with much less change in reopening.

It WAS the only goal.
You can't compare it to a natural disaster because there is no physical damage to structures.
No homes destroyed, no power outages, no rebuilding whatsoever.
We shut down to control the rate of spread, and that was the only reason most Americans accepted it.
We feared this would get out of control, with bodies piling up, freezer trucks, first line medical workers dead and dying, and unable to support the dead and dying - further snowballing the problem.
People forget what the possible scenario was.
We didn't come remotely close to it - and yes, that was due in part to the measures we enacted which succeeded in keeping the ate of spread to a manageable one.

That was the primary goal, and the main narrative. But, it was not the only goal of controlling a pandemic. In this instance our media inability to hold two thoughts and think beyond the week is literally killing us. More so when people think that was the only goal. Compounded by the federal response acting the same way. Yeah, we broke the peak once, had no follow up and called the game over. To bad it wasn’t even halftime yet. Even in this thread people pointed out that a flattening only goal wouldn’t reduce the total deaths, just spread them out and reduce the cascade impacts. Unless you’re cool with 2+ million deaths, clearly there needed to be more.

I’m sure I could find posters right in this thread with examples of businesses destroyed by the pandemic that need solutions beyond just “isolate for a few more months”. Might as well be destroyed by a hurricane.

Without a vaccine, you can't have low community spread and get back to normal. They are mutually exclusive. Why wasn't NY able to go back to normal after they had low community spread without ending up with high community spread? This virus is nearly impossible to control with the testing and contact tracing you suggest.

It can be spread by people who have no symptoms or very mild symptoms. That does not lend itself to isolation and contact tracing. Well, if you had a non invasive, rapid response DIY test that had extremely high sensitivity and specificity it could work. You'd have to have everybody test themselves before leaving the house every time they left.

The initial restrictions weren't to buy time to implement additional longer term plans. The initial restrictions were to "flatten the curve" and it was implied by the experts that after 15 extended to 47 days to slow the spread, things could move to a phased reopening and any pull back would be on a targeted, very local level. What should the longer term plans have been that didn't involve continuation of the same restrictions?

The vaccine is the only way to reduce spread that doesn't involve preventing people from coming into contact with other people.

Clearly you cannot have free movement between areas with different responses, otherwise they just keep importing more. This just stresses the importance of a national response, which didn’t happen. That with COVID it’s more difficult and expensive doesn’t mean we shouldn’t even try. Another reason a national response was needed, states and localities simply cannot fund it correctly. (Not suggesting we restrict movement between states, but that we need a single nationwide response.)

As above, that was a sticky catch phrase, but never the only goal of pandemic control.

I’ll never understand how people can think flattening was the only goal. An admission that 2+ million dead is fine and not worthy of a goal to reduce that. Just because its hard, doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try. The federal failure to do more than offer guidance has been doing exactly that, just giving up. While the actions needed, need to be implemented locally, the are only possible with federal coordination and funding.