danlb_2000
Premium Member
I didn't say you did, but others have.
-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion
- Thread starter Parker in NYC
- Start date
-
- Tags
- coronavirus covid covid-19
- Status
I didn't say you did, but others have.
danlb_2000
Premium Member
Total cases per million since the start of the pandemic:
Florida: 46,528
PA: 29,060
Understandable. We'll just take our chances 'til then. I have a friend who's a fairly high-profile Broadway performer who will never be able to perform again due to the toll COVID took on his lungs. I can't speak for everyone but I'm concerned. Especially since he has the kind of bankroll that will protect him from losing everything he has but so many others don't.
Was that sarcasm? I'm not sure what that means.
What chances am I advocating taking by saying we need more time to see what types and prevalence of chronic conditions people end up with? Did I tell people to take off masks and chuck it all?
I edited my post. And yes, it was sarcasm because it's the usual song and dance and I don't know how else to respond to the usual song and dance.
If you'd like you can read back my posts and see where I stand in regards to Covid.
I'm sorry about your friend.
I still don't think we have true numbers of people who are going to to be affected by the chronic conditions. I went out of my way to say that I'm not saying it doesn't happen, we just don't know how prevalent.
If you find what I said offensive, then I think you will find most anyone's opinions offensive and we should probably not discuss.
You were doing great until that last line. I'll consider it an incomplete forward pass.
No, I'm making the decision that I don't think our conversations would be very fruitful.
Have a good day!
In summation, anything we can do to advocate for and inspire the need for more awareness (since it isn't working for a lot of folks) that death isn't the worst thing that can happen, is completely negated by the idea that we just don't know the facts regarding what the effects will be months/years/decades down the line. Got it. How many more months do we need to avoid these conversations?
WillWrambles
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- No
I’m starting to hope we can do a recall election.
DisneyCane
Well-Known Member
If you are referring to Desantis' executive order, it does not block localities from having their own restrictions. It prevents certain restrictions like shutting down any business. It also, as I mentioned before, does not allow for restaurants to be restricted to less than 50% of indoor dining capacity. There can still be local restrictions and mandates to provide for social distancing and whatever else.
It also suspends the collection of fines against individuals for COVID-related violations. The new mayor of Broward County recently sent an email that indicated the Governor's order does not prevent the County from issuing fines, just that they can't collect them while the order is in effect. It does not prevent any locality from fining and collecting fines against businesses for violation of restrictions.
You are misreading both the tone and the legalities of his order. With respect to the mandate that you focus on, in the areas of FL that I've spent time in (Southeast and Central/Near Disney), the overwhelming majority of people do what you want them to do anyway. Even without mandates, national businesses have set their own policy and, despite a handful of youtube clips, compliance with those policies is well over 90% from my personal observations.
You really can't handle if someone doesn't think the way you do, can you? Ever hear the phrase about "eating your own?". I'm on your side friend.
I didn't negate it, but I did say we need to know more facts about it. Everyone should still wear their masks, follow the rules and get the vaccine when able.
I don't know what else you are looking for, but the original question-what do we think about the chronic conditions - I answered what I thought. You chose to make it some personal attack on yourself and your friend.
I can't stand hyperbole when trying to have a real discussion about serious topics.
I'm saying that maybe all of these charts about hospitalizations and death aren't the kinds of things that have been working too well with much of the populace. That's all. That isn't hyperbole, it's the fact that we're 9 months into this mess and people can't see beyond those statistics. What's the harm in that?
This isn't hyperbole and don't you dare say that I don't know how to have a discussion about a serious topic. I'm just wondering why 9 months later, the IDEA that maybe a different perspective broadcast to the average joe on the street could possibly be influential in rethinking the need for safety measures. But you've made it pretty clear that it's business as usual until we know more. 9 more months of business as usual. Have a lovely day.
But I see LAKESHOW and rowrbazzle and co. are in agreement with you, and as far as the latter is concerned, I have deep respect for their opinions. Maybe they just handle themselves with more clarity and grace.
DisneyCane
Well-Known Member
There was a long period where PA had much more severe restrictions in place than FL, especially during the summer spike in FL. Those numbers, combined with the current situation add credence to my opinion that severe restrictions serve to delay spread, not prevent spread. Once the restrictions are relaxed, the virus returns to natural behavior.
Also, some of that discrepancy in cases could possibly be due to more testing in FL earlier in the pandemic. Note that I didn't say all, I said some. In fatalities per million population for the pandemic, FL is at 866 and PA is at 831. Either the case fatality rate is inexplicably much higher in PA (2.86% vs. 1.86% in FL, 53% higher) or there were a lot of undetected cases in PA.
I don't know what your last sentence means. But if by business as usual you mean, keep wearing the masks, don't gather, social distance and try to limit travel, then yes, business as usual. I thought I was answering a question about chronic conditions. Apparently it went deeper than that and perhaps I'm missing a backstory.
You don't like my posting style I guess. That's okay! There's a lid for every pot.
What about my other dozen or so sentences? I really want an answer to why it would be so destructive to share with the public the risk of side effects over hospitalization and death percentages which haven't done a great job -- or have been picked apart (as in this thread) and proven that they aren't helpful. What is the problem with that? It's a simple question. Whether or not we have the data on it, I'm saying that from an emotional perspective, rather than a clinical, the side-effects could be more persuasive as to the risks. Is someone going to come back in a few months and say something like... "If we hadn't fear-mongered over side effects, we'd be in a better place now?" when it isn't fear-mongering whatsoever? They're already saying that about what has transpired.I don't know what your last sentence means.
You don't like my posting style I guess. That's okay! There's a lid for every pot.
I answered your other sentences in my post.
I don't think I ever said that the public shouldn't know about side effects. I said we don't know the true scope of them yet. And then you were trying to insult me I think. And now it's getting silly and we should stop derailing the thread.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
Or the deaths in PA were early on as we were hit hard in March and we didn’t know as much about the vulnerability of long term care facilities. The percent of deaths from LT care is much higher in PA than FL since the 1st wave came later and there was time to prepare better. Since you love picking only stats that support your position try taking deaths per capita from May until present.
You are also wrong that PA had much more restrictions than FL. It’s just not true. They did have a statewide mask mandate (which has no impact on businesses). Restaurants were open, gyms, schools, just about every aspect of the economy just as much as FL. Hershey park was open just as much as WDW or Universal. The only exception is PA never fully opened bars and clubs. Bars could be open with indoor seating but no standing room bar service. People had to be seated at tables that were properly distanced. So if your definition of severe restrictions is no standing room at the bar then I guess that’s true. Didn’t FL eventually shut down bars over the summer during the spike? Funny how we forget what actually happened.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
That’s good for those areas. I have family on both the East coast of FL, Naples and the Tampa area and they don’t report the same compliance. My FIL said when he goes to the store he says it’s about 50% compliance on masks. But, if most people are complying anyway why not mandate it to capture the rest? It’s a wink, wink, nod, nod to the denier crowd that it’s OK to pretend the virus doesn‘t exist IMHO.
Jenny72
Well-Known Member
I remember once reading about a campaign to discourage drunk driving in young people. The author said, don't focus on deaths because people can't envision that happening to themselves, and they don't really fear it. Talk about the high schoolers who are disfigured from accidents, who become quadriplegic or suffer disfiguring burns, because that is what they can envision and want to avoid.
I wonder if there is something similar going on here. People figure they aren't likely to die, or maybe they just think "if God says it's my time, then ok," but they don't typically think "If God thinks it's my time to rely on public assistance for six months or longer, then so be it. If God says it's time for my teeth to fall out painlessly because of vascular damage, I accept that." I actually think focusing on the long-haulers of Covid and the non-life-threatening effects would help compliance.
I wonder if there is something similar going on here. People figure they aren't likely to die, or maybe they just think "if God says it's my time, then ok," but they don't typically think "If God thinks it's my time to rely on public assistance for six months or longer, then so be it. If God says it's time for my teeth to fall out painlessly because of vascular damage, I accept that." I actually think focusing on the long-haulers of Covid and the non-life-threatening effects would help compliance.
- Status