Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Chi84]

I read this the other day and thought it was interesting.

Small Gatherings Spread the Virus, but Are They Causing the Surge? (Published 2020)

Yes, the coronavirus can be transmitted over cocktails and dinners. But these get-togethers may not account for the huge rise in cases.

www.nytimes.com

Many interesting points in that article. As the virus becomes more widespread, it's more difficult to pinpoint where someone was infected.

As stated in the article, some restrictions make no sense apart from the need for uniform enforceability. Our local arboretum requires people to wear masks as they pass each other on the trails even though there is no evidence the virus can be transmitted in that brief a time, outdoors, from several feet away.

People seem to have lost perspective. In reaction to the information about asymptomatic spread, they went from behaving as though anyone could have the virus (sensible) to believing everyone did have the virus (unreasonable). The last I heard, a little under 4% of the population has tested positive and the CDC has estimated twice as many may be infected. (If I'm wrong about that, sorry, but I'm sure someone will come along and correct it.) That leaves over 92% of the US population not infected. That's probably the reason for the article's finding that small gatherings may not be driving the spread - the chances of anyone being infected at such a gathering are quite low.

The original message about this virus still holds true. It is imperative to take all available measures to stop the spread because the size of the US population and limited hospital beds and healthcare resources will quickly be overwhelmed even by a small percentage of the population needing treatment. But the risk of the average person becoming infected is still quite low. I do everything I'm supposed to in terms of staying home as much as possible, wearing a mask when I'm out of the house, being careful about what I touch and washing hands, using sanitizer, etc. I'm careful, but not worried.

 

[BrianLo]

There was a long period where PA had much more severe restrictions in place than FL, especially during the summer spike in FL. Those numbers, combined with the current situation add credence to my opinion that severe restrictions serve to delay spread, not prevent spread. Once the restrictions are relaxed, the virus returns to natural behavior.

I think your overall point here is largely correct. It’s the implication of it that has changed. There was a real ‘why delay the inevitable’ discussion that had some validity once upon a time. Other than to not overwhelm health care there was little actually being achieved since most countries gave up on true localized eradication via restrictions alone.

Now that there are several vaccine candidates that discussion is less valid. We’re now delaying illness to vaccinate the population. Letting it ravage prematurely damages the economy and public health and gives up on the endpoint tools that are actually coming soon.

 

[SamusAranX]

@SamusAranX your point about private gatherings is valid, but irrelevant to this discussion. Nobody is saying having a mask mandate makes cases go to zero. Nobody. Private gatherings and people breaking rules will happen no matter what. Masks can‘t stop that. However, setting a tone form the top that Covid restrictions aren’t necessary and then blocking localities from having their own restrictions is damaging. You can defend your guy all day long on it but he’s wrong on this. Dead wrong.

I am no way defending the government; I apologize if i wasn't clear before , but I do not partake in politics, have an affiliation with any political party, nor do I vote. I remain neutral and sometimes ambivalent towards it.

I wasn't saying masks should make it go to zero, I was basically giving a gentle pat on the back to some Floridians for finally doing something voluntarily (public masking) even without anyone telling them to do it. At least in my area, it's improved, speaking anecdotally of course.

 

[MisterPenguin]

‘Star Wars’ Actor David Prowse Died From Covid-19, Daughter Says – Report

Star Wars actor David Prowse died of complications from Covid-19, his daughter has told UK newspapers.

deadline.com

 

[marni1971]

No wonder my Floridian friends have some choice names for their governor.

 

[ToTBellHop]

No wonder my Floridian friends have some choice names for their governor.

Ron DeathSantis is a safe one to put down.

 

[GoofGoof]

I am no way defending the government; I apologize if i wasn't clear before , but I do not partake in politics, have an affiliation with any political party, nor do I vote. I remain neutral and sometimes ambivalent towards it.

I wasn't saying masks should make it go to zero, I was basically giving a gentle pat on the back to some Floridians for finally doing something voluntarily (public masking) even without anyone telling them to do it. At least in my area, it's improved, speaking anecdotally of course.

Sorry, I was replying to 2 posts at once. My comment on defending his guy was really directed to the other guy. I do think that most people want to do the right thing. I just see something like mandating masks as a no brainer. Even if they don’t help as much as many experts think what‘s the harm? There’s a really good chance they help reduce spread but even if that turns out untrue they don’t hurt the economy or injure anyone in any way. The most negative they do is maybe give some people a false sense of security and limit a very small number of people from doing some activity since they can’t tolerate a mask for health reasons. The upside is so much greater than the downside. I can’t understand why any Governor would not take that simple step. It’s just fingers in the ears, stomping and tantruming. Nobody wants to admit they were wrong, but one of the characteristics of a good leader is that they admit when they are wrong, take the hit and adjust accordingly. A poor leader attempts to blame others and rationalize bad decisions instead of owning up.

This doesn‘t have to be a red vs blue political issue either. I happen to live in a state that has a Democratic governor but there are other examples of states with Republican governors like Vermont that have implemented reasonable restrictions and masks and taken smart steps to tackle the pandemic. Hopefully come Jan 21 there will be less pressure on the governors to act a certain way and we can all start working together to make sure the vaccine is distributed as quickly as possible.

 

[Disney Experience]

Actually, Desantis just extended that very order that pertains to fines for Covid-related transgressions.

Florida governor extends order suspending COVID-19 related enforcement fines

On Sept. 25, DeSantis signed an executive order that prevented municipalities from fining people for violating a mask ordinance and has stated that he’s not going to have any more lockdowns.

www.google.com

Specifics from the article:

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis on Tuesday extended his executive order that bans local governments from enforcing mask mandate violations.

On Sept. 25, DeSantis signed an executive order that prevented municipalities from fining people for violating a mask ordinance and has stated that he’s not going to have any more lockdowns. The order, which signaled Florida's move to phase 3, also prevents cities and counties from ordering restaurants to close without justifying it for economic or health reasons.

Now I do want Florida and the rest of the world to get to normal as soon as possible with the least trauma (Whether from Covid, or Covid mitigations). One spot to look to see empirically how well no mandates work is Sweden. It worked well for sometime, but not anymore. Bad enough that the government there is looking at lockdowns. I will be so glad when most people are vaccinated.

Swedish Government Rethinks COVID-19 Containment Strategy

While much of Europe locked down to stop the coronavirus from spreading, Sweden relied largely on voluntary social distancing measures. Now as infections rise, the government is reconsidering.

www.npr.org

But Sweden has, as a country, some bad side effects(Narcolepsy) from older (Pandemrix for h1n1 swine flu) vaccines adjuvants. So vaccine compliance in Sweden may be harder to achieve than elsewhere. Some studies state the increase rate of Narcolepsy was due more to the virus than the vaccine.

Narcolepsy fiasco spurs Covid vaccine fears in Sweden

Take a vaccine developed in haste? Never again, says Meissa Chebbi, who, like hundreds of other young Swedes suffered debilitating narcolepsy after a mass vaccination campaign against the 2009-2010 swine flu pandemic.

medicalxpress.com

 

[MisterPenguin]

Good news everyone! There is no coronavirus! A scientist has confirmed it...

‘I am a scientist. There is no corona!’ Maskless N.J. bank customer goes on tirade in viral video.

The woman berates a bank employee, claiming she's going 'to court' to fight masks.

www.nj.com

 

[dreday3]

Good news everyone! There is no coronavirus! A scientist has confirmed it...

‘I am a scientist. There is no corona!’ Maskless N.J. bank customer goes on tirade in viral video.

The woman berates a bank employee, claiming she's going 'to court' to fight masks.

www.nj.com

I have to think sometimes that these people who do these extended, off the chart type rants must have some sort of mental illness.

 

[danlb_2000]

Good news everyone! There is no coronavirus! A scientist has confirmed it...

‘I am a scientist. There is no corona!’ Maskless N.J. bank customer goes on tirade in viral video.

The woman berates a bank employee, claiming she's going 'to court' to fight masks.

www.nj.com

Yes, she says there is no corona and is also concerned that an employee might have corona and infect here. There is no reasoning with crazy.

 

[DisneyCane]

I think your overall point here is largely correct. It’s the implication of it that has changed. There was a real ‘why delay the inevitable’ discussion that had some validity once upon a time. Other than to not overwhelm health care there was little actually being achieved since most countries gave up on true localized eradication via restrictions alone.

Now that there are several vaccine candidates that discussion is less valid. We’re now delaying illness to vaccinate the population. Letting it ravage prematurely damages the economy and public health and gives up on the endpoint tools that are actually coming soon.

True, but the endpoint is still six months away which is only slightly less time than we've been dealing with it so far.

 

[marni1971]

True, but the endpoint is still six months away which is only slightly less time than we've been dealing with it so far.

Try nearly 9 months so far. Sadly.

 

[dreday3]

Try nearly 9 months. Sadly.

Well if you listen to Fauci (I have no idea if you do or not and I'm not commenting on it) - he was pretty optimistic starting about April people who want it should be able to start to get vaccine. At least here (I'm not sure where you live).

So on the positive outlook - 6 months.

 

[Heppenheimer]

I have to think sometimes that these people who do these extended, off the chart type rants must have some sort of mental illness.

If you've ever worked in an ER, that's exactly how schizophrenics sound when they stop taking their medications.

 

[dreday3]

If you've ever worked in an ER, that's exactly how schizophrenics sound when they stop taking their medications.

Sometimes I (quietly ) pity the people in these videos. Sometimes they are just jerks, but sometimes it's just sad.

 

[danlb_2000]

Well if you listen to Fauci (I have no idea if you do or not and I'm not commenting on it) - he was pretty optimistic starting about April people who want it should be able to start to get vaccine. At least here (I'm not sure where you live).

So on the positive outlook - 6 months.

Start getting it by April, but it's going to take a lot longer for enough people to be vaccinated to bring it under control.

 

[dreday3]

Start getting it by April, but it's going to take a lot longer for enough people to be vaccinated to bring it under control.

Yes, but I meant at least it's starting in 6 months.

I feel like I have to qualify everything I say...

 

[Chi84]

Yes, but I meant at least it's starting in 6 months.

I feel like I have to qualify everything I say...

Sadly, people here have a tough time with any degree of optimism. (I tried to throw them off by starting with the word sadly.)

 

[Turtlekrawl]

Total cases per million since the start of the pandemic:

Florida: 46,528
PA: 29,060

Another spin on this is that PA is dead last (51st including D.C.) in tests conducted per capita. Florida is 26th. It stands to reason if PA were in the middle of the pack, there would be thousands more cases.

It’s higher over a specific 7 day period. It’s absolutely cherry picking data. So are you both then saying that the other 25+ 7 day periods where the numbers were better in PA that the FL Governor was wrong. You are playing gotcha with the statistics and that’s fine to do if you want to play games. The longer term outlook is obviously all that matters but sure for one 7 day period FL has better stats than PA. Not sure what that proves. The only thing that matters for FL is Florida statistics. We all know the virus moves in waves. We all know that places far apart are not impacted at the same time. We heard all these arguments about how great FL was doing in May...how did that play out over the summer. The only thing that matters for FL is whether having a statewide mask mandate would help FL or not. It’s blind ignorance to say it wouldn’t help at least to some extent.

@SamusAranX your point about private gatherings is valid, but irrelevant to this discussion. Nobody is saying having a mask mandate makes cases go to zero. Nobody. Private gatherings and people breaking rules will happen no matter what. Masks can‘t stop that. However, setting a tone form the top that Covid restrictions aren’t necessary and then blocking localities from having their own restrictions is damaging. You can defend your guy all day long on it but he’s wrong on this. Dead wrong.

Another spin on this is that PA is dead last (51st including D.C.) in tests conducted per capita. Florida is 26th. It stands to reason if PA were in the middle of the pack, there would be thousands more cases.
We can cherry pick time periods, and we can also cherry pick specific stats to make states look better than others: cases, cases per million, death rate, positivity, testing rate.... I’m not sure what is most important. But no state has handled this perfectly.
Except maybe Vermont.