Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[GoofGoof]

This is setting up to be an.. interesting.. situation that I'm not quite sure if WDW has a plan for: What happens when you have an out of control outbreak elsewhere in the country?

Clearly, if you go by the metrics of Florida or the more local metrics for Orange County, the community spread of the virus - while currently rising - is still well below what it was in July when the parks opened. Fingers can perhaps rightly be pointed at that and say that operations don't need to change, the plan is working, and this can be done safely... and in fact, we're seeing expansion of capacity, slow but steady reopening of closed venues, and a new 'business as a new normal' attitude. All the while, the guest mix has shifted dramatically away from the opening crowds of mostly Florida residents and optimistic DVC owners to a demographic that is alarmingly swinging towards many of the current hot spots.

Should WDW operations change, or even pause again, in light of what's now dramatically happening in its feeder markets?

In addition, WDW may have been an example of 'doing things right', but have they shown any willingness to adapt or react to new developments in our understanding of the spread of the virus? Recent roll-back orders from several state governors hit directly on the now obvious issues we have identified inherent with indoor dining and time spent in crowds indoors (even with mask usage).

There was also a relatively recent CDC guidance change that now indicates the 15 minute 'exposure' guideline should not be interpreted to be in one session. It can be 15 minutes of cumulative exposure, and not necessarily of the same contagious individual. What does that guidance indicate for cast members like servers that are in routine contact with hundreds of unmasked guests throughout the course of a shift?

I had confidence that WDW was taking the right approach to this. A lack of willingness to address some of these newer concerns, along with negative crowding experiences I've personally witnessed at Springs has caused that confidence to begin to waver. I took my 80 year old grandmother to EPCOT back in September. I could not in good conscience recommend that same excursion today.

It is interesting. If you remember back to May there was a series of discussions around whether WDW should open for locals only since cases were much lower in FL or if they should exclude people from certain states. I think at the time the thought was they would exclude people from NY/NJ area because cases were higher there. We have almost come full circle except FL never really bottomed out on cases like the NE this summer. It would really be better for the country in general if people held off on out of state travel until this wave starts back down.

 

[oceanbreeze77]

It is interesting. If you remember back to May there was a series of discussions around whether WDW should open for locals only since cases were much lower in FL or if they should exclude people from certain states. I think at the time the thought was they would exclude people from NY/NJ area because cases were higher there. We have almost come full circle except FL never really bottomed out on cases like the NE this summer. It would really be better for the country in general if people held off on out of state travel until this wave starts back down.

when Disneyland reopens it will be locals only.

 

[techgeek]

I mentioned this before, but I think once the death toll starts exploding, Disney will see they have no choice, whether its for their own safety, pressure from cast members, or pressure from the public. I predict they close again at some point in the next 2 months.

It's really hard to see a path to closure from a 'on the ground' perspective here in Florida, at least today. I wish I could have a different attitude about it, but people just aren't anywhere near back to that mindset.. yet.

 

[hopemax]

Re: The hospital wave is still coming...

I don't know what we are going to do about Healthcare worker burnout, and other fallout. I was reading Twitter last night, people trying to comfort a nurse who had to tell teenagers that their Mom had died. Their Dad had died the week before. Which lead to a few tweets about the orphans left behind from the 1918 Flu. Given half of this country's collective shrug, I'm guessing these people are also on their own, "not our problem." I think about how difficult it was to get Mitch's Senate to do anything to renew the support for the 9/11 Victims and First Responders Fund.

 

[oceanbreeze77]

Re: The hospital wave is still coming...

I don't know what we are going to do about Healthcare worker burnout, and other fallout. I was reading Twitter last night, people trying to comfort a nurse who had to tell teenagers that their Mom had died. Their Dad had died the week before. Which lead to a few tweets about the orphans left behind from the 1918 Flu. Given half of this country's collective shrug, I'm guessing these people are also on their own, "not our problem." I think about how difficult it was to get Mitch's Senate to do anything to renew the support for the 9/11 Victims and First Responders Fund.

I am gutted that there is no hope for a covid relief bill until jan. Its purely out of spite. Disgusting.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Re: The hospital wave is still coming...

I don't know what we are going to do about Healthcare worker burnout, and other fallout. I was reading Twitter last night, people trying to comfort a nurse who had to tell teenagers that their Mom had died. Their Dad had died the week before. Which lead to a few tweets about the orphans left behind from the 1918 Flu. Given half of this country's collective shrug, I'm guessing these people are also on their own, "not our problem."

Sad about their parents lives and all but I can’t delay my trip to a half-open Disney World. Plus their parents were probably old or had pre-existing conditions.

(In case I didn’t lay it on thick enough... that’s sarcasm)

 

[DisneyCane]

Yes if it was uniform

so not to argue... if that lockdown happened AND the government provided all the necessary funds for those businesses to be OK... why would it be a bad thing? Genuinely asking

It still wouldn't be a good thing from the standpoint of mental health but I would be able to stomach it if the businesses were made whole. Not just keep them alive but the owners should earn profit as well (not 100% pre-covid because even without restrictions revenue would be lower). Basically the same theory as eminent domain. The government is essentially taking temporary ownership of the business by forcing closure so the owners should get fair market value for that "lease."

That goes for businesses that are open but can't possibly bring in the same revenue due to capacity limits also. They should be made whole if it is mandatory.

The 2 trillion that was passed a few months ago didn't even come close to that level of compensation. While the government could borrow a ton more I think the next generation will suffer greatly by the increase in debt it would take to do what I just suggested above.

 

[DisneyCane]

Re: The hospital wave is still coming...

I don't know what we are going to do about Healthcare worker burnout, and other fallout. I was reading Twitter last night, people trying to comfort a nurse who had to tell teenagers that their Mom had died. Their Dad had died the week before. Which lead to a few tweets about the orphans left behind from the 1918 Flu. Given half of this country's collective shrug, I'm guessing these people are also on their own, "not our problem." I think about how difficult it was to get Mitch's Senate to do anything to renew the support for the 9/11 Victims and First Responders Fund.

Do nurses typically notify family of deaths in non-hospice situations? I'm genuinely asking. My dad was in hospice before he passed and all other deaths I've experienced close to me were traumatic type things either post surgery or stopping life support (which would be a discussion with a doctor) or death at home so I am unaware about the typical hospital death situation.

 

[DisneyCane]

I am gutted that there is no hope for a covid relief bill until jan. Its purely out of spite. Disgusting.

Sometime since Friday Trump was pushing for COVID relief on twitter (in between election fraud tweets). If he's not doing anything out of spite I don't know why the Senate would.

 

[hopemax]

Do nurses typically notify family of deaths in non-hospice situations? I'm genuinely asking. My dad was in hospice before he passed and all other deaths I've experienced close to me were traumatic type things either post surgery or stopping life support (which would be a discussion with a doctor) or death at home so I am unaware about the typical hospital death situation.

I have no idea. But based on some of the other stories, it seems like "what is typical" about a whole lot of things isn't happening when hospitals reach crisis state. I imagine since with the visitor restrictions and how it's been left to the nurses to do Facetime / Zoom goodbyes, I would imagine they are doing some notifications too, because they have an existing "relationship."

 

[Touchdown]

Because the goverment is well known to scale back after incidents...ever... once you create agencys and professionals to handle a crisis even a legitimate one like this it takes twice as much effort to get rid of them after... almost every three letter agency was created for a specific thing but than became lets do this thing all the time.

As an aside my opinion is rooted in reality when it comes to opening....the us governments track record of helping regular people during a crisis is poor. Without extensive programs that goof has talked about among others i perfer to let businesses have a fighting chance. Sure in a perfect world x y z but we don't live there. Our goverment is inherently not half as centralized as say europe...for you know a well known reason. With that in mind some sort of program that helps people stay afloat is a pipe dream.

My personal opinion on a program would simply be wage compensation aka take everyones 40 hour checks and print them. Like the ppp on steroids. I don't like the flat rate stuff like the 600 bucks...just print the same paycheck that person was cashing and tell them to stay home. On the buisness end would have to create something similar in effect for owners etc. Maybe replicate net?

Hey I’m all for looking for a private solution but there isn’t one in this case. For the first time since WWII, the government is the only way to fix this.

 

[hopemax]

Because the goverment is well known to scale back after incidents...ever... once you create agencys and professionals to handle a crisis even a legitimate one like this it takes twice as much effort to get rid of them after... almost every three letter agency was created for a specific thing but than became lets do this thing all the time.

As an aside my opinion is rooted in reality when it comes to opening....the us governments track record of helping regular people during a crisis is poor. Without extensive programs that goof has talked about among others i perfer to let businesses have a fighting chance. Sure in a perfect world x y z but we don't live there. Our goverment is inherently not half as centralized as say europe...for you know a well known reason. With that in mind some sort of program that helps people stay afloat is a pipe dream.

My personal opinion on a program would simply be wage compensation aka take everyones 40 hour checks and print them. Like the ppp on steroids. I don't like the flat rate stuff like the 600 bucks...just print the same paycheck that person was cashing and tell them to stay home. On the buisness end would have to create something similar in effect for owners etc. Maybe replicate net?

I don't think new agencies is what people were requesting. More, let DHHS and the CDC do what they need to do. Amend the Stafford Act to include pandemics which would allow FEMA more access to funds and authority. Use the National Guard. Basically, ramp up funds to allow our existing government agencies to do what they already do with smaller scale emergencies.

Think about hurricanes and the state of FL. The pre-storm state of emergencies, the coordination to get gas companies, electric companies, cleanup crews, FEMA, Red Cross ready to go in, as soon as the storm passes. Florida especially, loves to tout their great coordination to minimize disruption, get the power back on, etc. But with this, it's "COVID deaths aren't really COVID deaths," and everything else to downplay what is happening.

 

[Miss Bella]

Do nurses typically notify family of deaths in non-hospice situations? I'm genuinely asking. My dad was in hospice before he passed and all other deaths I've experienced close to me were traumatic type things either post surgery or stopping life support (which would be a discussion with a doctor) or death at home so I am unaware about the typical hospital death situation.

No.

 

[DCBaker]

Vaccine news -

"Biotechnology firm Moderna announced Monday that a preliminary analysis shows its experimental coronavirus vaccine is nearly 95 percent effective at preventing illness, including severe cases — a striking initial result that leaves the United States with the prospect that two coronavirus vaccines could be available on a limited basis by the end of the year."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/11/16/covid-moderna-vaccine/

"Moderna, Inc. (Nasdaq: MRNA), a biotechnology company pioneering messenger RNA (mRNA) therapeutics and vaccines to create a new generation of transformative medicines for patients, today announced new data showing that mRNA-1273, its COVID-19 vaccine candidate, remains stable at 2° to 8°C (36° to 46°F), the temperature of a standard home or medical refrigerator, for 30 days. Stability testing supports this extension from an earlier estimate of 7 days. mRNA-1273 remains stable at -20° C (-4°F) for up to six months, at refrigerated conditions for up to 30 days and at room temperature for up to 12 hours."

Moderna Announces Longer Shelf Life for its COVID-19 Vaccine Candidate at Refrigerated Temperatures | Moderna, Inc.

Vaccine candidate now expected to remain stable at standard refrigerator temperatures of 2° to 8°C (36° to 46°F) for 30 days, up from previous estimate of 7 days Shipping and long-term storage conditions at standard freezer temperatures of -20°C (-4°F) for 6 months mRNA-1273 to be distributed using

investors.modernatx.com

 

[Kevin_W]

Vaccine news -

"Biotechnology firm Moderna announced Monday that a preliminary analysis shows its experimental coronavirus vaccine is nearly 95 percent effective at preventing illness, including severe cases — a striking initial result that leaves the United States with the prospect that two coronavirus vaccines could be available on a limited basis by the end of the year."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/11/16/covid-moderna-vaccine/

"Moderna, Inc. (Nasdaq: MRNA), a biotechnology company pioneering messenger RNA (mRNA) therapeutics and vaccines to create a new generation of transformative medicines for patients, today announced new data showing that mRNA-1273, its COVID-19 vaccine candidate, remains stable at 2° to 8°C (36° to 46°F), the temperature of a standard home or medical refrigerator, for 30 days. Stability testing supports this extension from an earlier estimate of 7 days. mRNA-1273 remains stable at -20° C (-4°F) for up to six months, at refrigerated conditions for up to 30 days and at room temperature for up to 12 hours."

Moderna Announces Longer Shelf Life for its COVID-19 Vaccine Candidate at Refrigerated Temperatures | Moderna, Inc.

Vaccine candidate now expected to remain stable at standard refrigerator temperatures of 2° to 8°C (36° to 46°F) for 30 days, up from previous estimate of 7 days Shipping and long-term storage conditions at standard freezer temperatures of -20°C (-4°F) for 6 months mRNA-1273 to be distributed using

investors.modernatx.com

Certainly good news, and lightly easier to store than the Pfizer vaccine. Moderna expects 20 million doses (10 million people's worth) to be available in the US by end of 2020. I know Pfizer was 25 million people world-wide, I'm not sure how many of those for the US. That certainly is a good start.

 

[DisneyTransport]

Vaccine news -

"Biotechnology firm Moderna announced Monday that a preliminary analysis shows its experimental coronavirus vaccine is nearly 95 percent effective at preventing illness, including severe cases — a striking initial result that leaves the United States with the prospect that two coronavirus vaccines could be available on a limited basis by the end of the year."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/11/16/covid-moderna-vaccine/

"Moderna, Inc. (Nasdaq: MRNA), a biotechnology company pioneering messenger RNA (mRNA) therapeutics and vaccines to create a new generation of transformative medicines for patients, today announced new data showing that mRNA-1273, its COVID-19 vaccine candidate, remains stable at 2° to 8°C (36° to 46°F), the temperature of a standard home or medical refrigerator, for 30 days. Stability testing supports this extension from an earlier estimate of 7 days. mRNA-1273 remains stable at -20° C (-4°F) for up to six months, at refrigerated conditions for up to 30 days and at room temperature for up to 12 hours."

Moderna Announces Longer Shelf Life for its COVID-19 Vaccine Candidate at Refrigerated Temperatures | Moderna, Inc.

Vaccine candidate now expected to remain stable at standard refrigerator temperatures of 2° to 8°C (36° to 46°F) for 30 days, up from previous estimate of 7 days Shipping and long-term storage conditions at standard freezer temperatures of -20°C (-4°F) for 6 months mRNA-1273 to be distributed using

investors.modernatx.com

Another company sometime next week: “Yea well, our vaccine is 95.5% effective!”

Good news though!

 

[dreday3]

What great news this morning!!!

Now we have two vaccines with way better than expected efficacy rates.

Next year is looking better and better.

 

[Horizons '83]

What great news this morning!!!

Now we have two vaccines with way better than expected efficacy rates.

Next year is looking better and better.

Great news indeed. Just need to make sure they are safe for the masses, then I'll feel even better

 

[Heppenheimer]

Great news indeed. Just need to make sure they are safe for the masses, then I'll feel even better

If the pre-marketing trials are not enough to reassure you, there will be a huge post-marketing surveillance effort amongst the health care workers and first responders who will likely receive it prior to the general public.

 

[Horizons '83]

If the pre-marketing trials are not enough to reassure you, there will be a huge post-marketing surveillance effort amongst the health care workers and first responders who will likely receive it prior to the general public.

Correct, the pre-marketing trials really never make me feel any more confident, but as you alluded to, once the actual vaccine is used on the general population, without a hitch, I'm all in. Just don't want to be one of the first people to stand in line for this type of a vaccine.