LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
There’s no need for sarcasm. Have you even followed the British government’s actions to know what I may be referring to?
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Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion
- Thread starter Parker in NYC
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Chi84
Premium Member
I thought that was explained in the next paragraph that you didn’t quote. The one about following all the protocols. People do disagree on how much they need to do to be safe, and those with children have to consider how best to keep them active and socialized.
Dan Deesnee
Well-Known Member
I've been following what most large countries have been doing. What aspect specifically are you referring to?
LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
Just two examples, off the top of my head:
The government's failure to hold Dominic Cummings to account when he broke the rules during the first lockdown. This caused a huge dent in public confidence.
More recently, the government's decision to ignore their own scientific advisers' call for a two-week lockdown in September. As a result of that decision, England's numbers continued to soar, and the country has now had to enter a month-long lockdown.
Neither of these failures required prescience or prior experience to avoid. They were the result of government ineptitude.
ETA: And the laughter emoji on my earlier post is in extremely poor taste.
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_caleb
Well-Known Member
So is it your opinion (or @sullivan.kscott’s) that “following all the protocols” is the most we should do in order to limit the spread of the virus, or the minimum?
Chi84
Premium Member
I don’t think it’s fair to criticize the behavior of someone who is doing what is allowed and following all the protocols while doing so. Governments and businesses set the rules, which is necessary because individuals will disagree on how much can reasonably be done to limit the spread of the virus.
People are different in terms of how much they are willing to do to in response to this virus. Some will take maximum measures while others will do the minimum. As long as they are following every law and regulation in place, they should feel free to make those decisions for themselves.
IANADSo now that flu shots are the topic, I have a question for our doctors.I had the nasal flu spray, last Monday. In the past, I had had the shot, but they were asking younger people to do the mist. I had no reaction with the shot, but the mist, holy cow. I was sneezing, eyes watering, runny nose, and then because of all the post-nasal, sore throat, cough to clear my passages. It showed up on Wed, lasted about 2 days and then went away. Is this reaction because of the mist? My sinuses can get irritated pretty easily, so should I stick with the shot in the future. Or is it this year's cocktail and shot/mist I might have ended up reacting the same?
But I can totally see why people say they got sick after getting a flu shot. (I don't think I was "sick" it seemed like an out of control hayfever.)
Your reaction is the kind of reaction you would get with almost any nasal infection. When your body thinks it's under attack from either a real virus or the pretend-virus that is the vaccine, it goes into action: temperature increase, tons of mucus, inflammation, sneezing & coughing, and soreness. The soreness, BTW, is your body exploding its own cells in a scorched earth policy of stopping the invasion.
Since your body doesn't know the difference between the real virus and the pretend-viral vaccine, it still goes through the motion. But in the end, it is worth it because it does one more thing: creates antibodies so that it will quickly wipe out the real virus if you get infected.
This is why almost everyone who say that the flu shot gave them the flu are totally wrong. The flu is not light cold symptoms for just a few days. It's a whole heck of a lot worse.
Now, it is possible that someone who got a flu shot still gets the flu because of the different strains or possibly they didn't develop enough antibodies. But this is different from those who experience light symptoms immediately after a shot and call it the flu.
The vaccine is totally worth it to not be knocked out for two weeks by a real flu (not to mention the chance of long term damage or death) and to participate in herd immunity to protect those who can't be immunized (infants, the very ill, those that are immuno-compromised).
sullyinMT
Well-Known Member
Businesses? Minimum. Some, like airlines and WDW in particular, have gone well above minimum in an attempt to regain trust.
Private groups, like scouts or swim team that I mentioned, have heavily modified their protocols in a way that’s minutia and boring here. But I’m comfortable with what they’ve done.
I was also responding to @DisneyCane that it’s ok to support businesses and entities that enforce protocol and policy. If the policies change, it’s ok to ask why but we shouldn’t carry pitchforks in the process. It’s also ok to call out the ones that don’t, like my formerly preferred gas station that I won’t patronize even after this is over.
_caleb
Well-Known Member
Whatever our current compliance with recommended protocols is, it’s not enough (see infections, rates, deaths). I’m curious about how different people understand their part in our collective coronavirus response. The protocols are pretty clear (at least, the ones on the CDC site), but our attitudes will determine how we, as individuals, will behave. Of course people disagree; that doesn’t mean everyone is right.
hopemax
Well-Known Member
Yes, I know in general how the flu vaccine works. I was asking basically about the affect of the different delivery systems shot vs spray, since my most significant side effect was the sneezing. Which was not included as a side effect on the paperwork or when I Googled (other than don't sneeze while it's administered). Had it been, I would have shrugged it as expected. But since it wasn't, I became curious if it was because of the spray.
_caleb
Well-Known Member
Right. I wasn’t attacking you at all. I was asking how you didn’t see your behavior (frequenting movie theaters, indoor dining at restaurants, etc.) as part of the problem. No pitchforks here, just trying to understand how other people could look at the same numbers I am and behave so differently. Thanks for your response.
That... I don't know.
Tho, I'd guess that your body thinks the infection is in the nasal area and that would be the battleground for body-reaction symptoms. It would certainly send the Killer T-cells there. BOOM!
Massive dataset reveals 4 superspreader sites to avoid in winter 2021
Researchers examining mobility offer robust evidence that social distancing works — and pinpoint locations to avoid during the pandemic.
This is no real surprise, but a recent study published today in Nature is proving to be very timely to the discussion on indoor dining:
_caleb
Well-Known Member
So if these findings are true, why shouldn’t we close gyms, cafes, restaurants, and hotels? Especially if “tamping down on foot traffic in these high-risk locations could have outsized positive effects on curbing infections?”Massive dataset reveals 4 superspreader sites to avoid in winter 2021
Researchers examining mobility offer robust evidence that social distancing works — and pinpoint locations to avoid during the pandemic.www.inverse.com
This is no real surprise, but a recent study published today in Nature is proving to be very timely to the discussion on indoor dining:
LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
Not to mention hotels. I know many here are insisting that a trip to Disney is safe, but what about the hotels, restaurants, and cafes that are part of any such trip?
Jenny72
Well-Known Member
Obviously I wouldn't count on it, but there are at least a few people that think that live vaccines can help fight off Covid because of the way they stimulate the immune system (the details are lost on me, but see the article if you like). I believe there was some thinking that the polio or tuberculosis vaccine, for instance, could be a kind of bridge vaccine until we get a more targeted one. I actually got the flu nasal spray this year rather than the shot because, hey, you never know. So maybe your allergy-like symptoms were worth it.
www.npr.org
Could The Live Flu Vaccine Help You Fight Off COVID-19?
There's evidence that certain vaccines boost the body's defense against many kinds of illness. Scientists are investigating whether this benefit extends to protection from COVID-19.
www.npr.org
sullyinMT
Well-Known Member
I didn’t take it that way at all. The pitchforks comment was more at freaking about changes in protocols. Our habits have drastically changed in how we socialize and where. If my county changes, we’ll change with it.
I’ve always appreciated your being willing to converse; all good.
I spent a few days in a hotel in Miami recently, but it was probably at like 30% occupancy. I think only a few rooms on my floor were occupied, and it wasn’t like you were bumping into people everywhere at all. I went down to get breakfast and brought it back to my room, and pretty much spent my time there in my room otherwise. The dining room was closed, but the bar was open for takeout. I did bump up against the question for my first time since March ‘is it proper covid courtesy to wait for the next elevator if one is occupied?’ once or twice... in which I chose to wait, even though the elevators were marked with distancing circles in opposing corners.
I think that kind of hotel stay is dramatically different than the kind of resort stay encouraged at WDW. It’s a fine line to walk.
sullyinMT
Well-Known Member
And perhaps we should for x number of weeks or until there’s a change in numbers. I’d like to see a few details (maybe they’re in the article) on gyms. How large are they and at what capacity are they limiting not only attendance, but spacing in the gym? Some, like an LA Fitness or Planet Fitness, are occupying old circuit cities and Toys r Usses. Others occupy one or two sublets in a strip mall and are claustrophobic on a good day. Also, what is mask compliance and enforcement for not only those working out but staff? The reason I ask those questions is that our YMCA has yet to be traced to an outbreak, but a couple smaller gyms have. Same with a few barber shops/nail salons and differences in compliance.
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