Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Some of us kind of do this in our own heads, even on a day by day basis. We've given the kids a vote on Saturday lunch (usually least crowded around here that goes with our schedule), and vetoed them upon pulling in to a parking lot.
The scoring system is a micromanaging (in a good way) system to allow as much as possible to operate at any given time. The only downside I could possibly see is not having enough hires in the health department to do routine checks in a meaningful way. But I really like the idea of incentives (highest achievable score) to modify business behavior.
I'd also like to see some businesses, upon inspection, be shuttered for a few weeks for "retraining."

Even in the “big, annoying, non-‘merican” states...there is neither the funds nor personnel to guard the public from the private.

And that’s what this is: every idiot that does what they want can spread their stupidity to the public by a multiplication factor.

I’d make the argument that this is the most embarrassing week in our country’s history - 2 very obvious factors - and its a very easy argument to make.

The glimmer is the “the night is darkest before the dawn” theory.

 

[Parker in NYC]

Well, the anti maskers are going to have to contort and twist themselves to find a way around this. Seriously want to smack them sometimes.

CDC says masks protect wearers from Covid-19

Wearing a mask can help protect you, not just those around you, from coronavirus transmission, the CDC said in new guidance Tuesday.

www.cnn.com

Oh, I'm sure they already have a narrative prepared.

 

[_caleb]

I have only stayed a few nights in a hotel since this started but it was no less safe than a grocery store or other retail spot.

Do we know that the hotel was "no less safe?" Maybe it just didn't feel less safe?

 

[_caleb]

Even in the “big, annoying, non-‘merican” states...there is neither the funds nor personnel to guard the public from the private.

And that’s what this is: every idiot that does what they want can spread their stupidity to the public by a multiplication factor.

I’d make the argument that this is the most embarrassing week in out countries history - 2 very obvious factors - and its a very easy argument to make.

The glimmer is the “the night is darkest before the dawn” theory.

"This company that desperately wants my money says it's worth the risk for me to pay for their services."

 

[Heppenheimer]

Well, the anti maskers are going to have to contort and twist themselves to find a way around this. Seriously want to smack them sometimes.

CDC says masks protect wearers from Covid-19

Wearing a mask can help protect you, not just those around you, from coronavirus transmission, the CDC said in new guidance Tuesday.

www.cnn.com

Amazing. These findings are exactly what common sense and understanding of the basic principles would predict.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Do we know that the hotel was "no less safe?" Maybe it just didn't feel less safe?

To me, the hotel "feels" more safe than the grocery store. I have no idea what is the reality, no one does.

 

[_caleb]

A couple pages ago, I asked whether people were treating current recommended protocols as the most we should do to slow the spread of the virus or the least we could do.

It seems like many people see the guidelines as "something to shoot for," like an unattainable ideal that would be nice in theory. But these measures are better seen as the bare minimum for how we should behave. If the guidelines say "maintain at least 6' distance," why not strive for 12', knowing that it would be safer?

And, we can help make up for the fact that too few people are actually adhering to the protocols by going above and beyond, ourselves.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

To me, the hotel "feels" more safe than the grocery store. I have no idea what is the reality, no one does.

One would think hotels are more safe...but something about them...maybe the coming and going/hall traffic or hvac?...apparently doesn’t make them so.

 

[JoeCamel]

One would think hotels are more safe...but something about them...maybe the coming and going/hall traffic or hvac?...apparently doesn’t make them so.

I'm not sure why. I have done 25+ nights across the country in upper mid level to ratholes since February and the occupancy was so low I was the only occupied room on a floor or one of very few most of the time.
Front desk is almost contact free and I didn't see another person for the most part after that. Heard a couple but never felt less safe than local stores many of which had very spotty precautions being observed.

 

[danlb_2000]

Interesting list. Restaurants and cafes are pretty obvious. Anyone paying attention knows that indoor dining is an issue, really anything indoor without a mask for an extended period of time. Gyms can be hit or miss. I’ve heard stories of gyms setup pretty well and others of “train-wreck” kind of setups. The problem is if gyms are allowed to be open a gym owner is going to be open, even if they can’t set things up safely. I don’t know how to solve that issue. Maybe have more surprise inspections and/or require an inspection to re-open. It’s really up to people to actually follow through.

The one that’s a head scratcher to me is hotels. I’m not sure how a hotel is an issue by itself. I have only stayed a few nights in a hotel since this started but it was no less safe than a grocery store or other retail spot. Masks were required in all indoor common spaces, they had hand sanitizer all over the place, the front desk had plexiglass and even a clean and dirty pen bin where they cleaned pens after each guest used them. The elevators had signs limiting them to 1 party at a time. There was really not a lot I could see being an issue. Now if the hotel bar/restaurant or the hotel fitness center are open that could be where problems come in. In general I would say if people staying in a hotel are generally eating out then that may be the issue as opposed to the hotel itself.

As you suggest, I wonder if it's related to the fact the hotels have restaurants, cafes and fitness centers. It's not clear if the study look at the level of details, or just looked at people entering a hotel and not what they did when they got there.

 

[sullyinMT]

One would think hotels are more safe...but something about them...maybe the coming and going/hall traffic or hvac?...apparently doesn’t make them so.

Maybe @GoofGoof is on to something with the dining out being more prominent among hotel guests? More of an incidental finding than a fault in the hotel model at large (especially with such low occupancy).

 

[_caleb]

According to the article we definitely all read:

"The team confirmed that most Covid-19 transmissions occur at four superspreader sites: full-service restaurants, gyms, hotels, and cafes. These places are especially risky because groups of people tend to remain in close quarters for extended periods of time."

The study was actually focused on mobility, so the reason hotels are on the list is that people (from all over) stay for an extended period of time (relative to the 15-minute contact limit).

 

[techgeek]

As someone else suggested, inspections.

The only downside I could possibly see is not having enough hires in the health department to do routine checks in a meaningful way.

I don’t know what the general consensus about other states is, but I have zero confidence in any meaningful inspection / health department intervention ever happening anywhere in the state of Florida. Political climate aside, there’s just no resources, no will to establish resources at any level, and business owners would largely end up fighting it and finding loopholes every inch of the way. That’s the way it rolled here earlier with the shutdown and early reopening phases... the only establishments you could count on where the national chains following their own national policy. Independent / local chains are and will continue to be a free-for-all

I know Tech wasn’t advocating that approach...but before we get that “Disney is the safest place on Earth!” Self serving rhetoric going...snuff it out.

As a local, Disney remains one of the most consistently enforced and therefore ‘safest’ public spaces in central Florida... but where two months ago you could pull into the garage at Springs and mostly see Florida plates, now it’s a virtual roll call of hot spots. We had brunch outside on the patio at Raglan Road last weekend, but that was at the limits of my comfort zone among what has become a very geographically diverse audience. I think especially in light of recent studies, indoor dining at Disney needs to be carefully reevaluated... and I’m not sure how you run the place at the level it’s now being run without that capacity.

 

[Kevin_W]

According to the article we definitely all read:

"The team confirmed that most Covid-19 transmissions occur at four superspreader sites: full-service restaurants, gyms, hotels, and cafes. These places are especially risky because groups of people tend to remain in close quarters for extended periods of time."

The study was actually focused on mobility, so the reason hotels are on the list is that people (from all over) stay for an extended period of time (relative to the 15-minute contact limit).

But as others have said, with whom are you having >15-minute contact? I've stayed at a couple hotels since this started and I saw a front desk person for 1-2 minutes on the other side of a plexiglass barrier from a distance of several feet. Similar-to-less contact than I have at the checkout of the grocery. No one else was every within 10-20 feet of me the whole time I was there.

Maybe you could argue that hotels have poor air exchange/circulation, so I end up breathing some of the air that the person 2 rooms down from me. I don't know the HVAC setup of large hotels, so that could be true. (Bonus points at WDW for Pop Century, CBR, Coronado, and the like in that case!)

 

[_caleb]

I don’t know what the general consensus about other states is, but I have zero confidence in any meaningful inspection / health department intervention ever happening anywhere in the state of Florida. Political climate aside, there’s just no resources, no will to establish resources at any level, and business owners would largely end up fighting it and finding loopholes every inch of the way. That’s the way it rolled here earlier with the shutdown and early reopening phases... the only establishments you could count on where the national chains following their own national policy. Independent / local chains are and will continue to be a free-for-all



As a local, Disney remains one of the most consistently enforced and therefore ‘safest’ public spaces in central Florida... but where two months ago you could pull into the garage at Springs and mostly see Florida plates, now it’s a virtual roll call of hot spots. We had brunch outside on the patio at Raglan Road last weekend, but that was at the limits of my comfort zone among what has become a very geographically diverse audience. I think especially in light of recent studies, indoor dining at Disney needs to be carefully reevaluated... and I’m not sure how you run the place at the level it’s now being run without that capacity.

Yeah, it's the will to act that's lacking. And the State is paying the price for it in lives and lasting health issues. But, as you mention, it's not just Florida paying the price.

 

[_caleb]

But as others have said, with whom are you having >15-minute contact? I've stayed at a couple hotels since this started and I saw a front desk person for 1-2 minutes on the other side of a plexiglass barrier from a distance of several feet. Similar-to-less contact than I have at the checkout of the grocery. No one else was every within 10-20 feet of me the whole time I was there.

Maybe you could argue that hotels have poor air exchange/circulation, so I end up breathing some of the air that the person 2 rooms down from me. I don't know the HVAC setup of large hotels, so that could be true. (Bonus points at WDW for Pop Century, CBR, Coronado, and the like in that case!)

You're treating each interaction that happens during a hotel stay as a separate interaction. I'm not sure the study does that.

 

[techgeek]

I don't know the HVAC setup of large hotels, so that could be true. (Bonus points at WDW for Pop Century, CBR, Coronado, and the like in that case!)

It seems to me that, at least in relatively modern construction, rooms typically all have their own independent HVAC. Common spaces obviously are shared, and maybe that’s the major concern. The elevator thing is a eyebrow raiser for me honestly needing more answers... it’s a very small space, with very quick cycles between parties.

One other thing I can imagine a lot more variation in is the bathroom exhaust arrangements... I’ve seen everything from fans in the individual units sucking air right to outside, to shared exhaust ducts with either more centrally driven or passive airflow.

 

[sullyinMT]

But as others have said, with whom are you having >15-minute contact? I've stayed at a couple hotels since this started and I saw a front desk person for 1-2 minutes on the other side of a plexiglass barrier from a distance of several feet. Similar-to-less contact than I have at the checkout of the grocery. No one else was every within 10-20 feet of me the whole time I was there.

Maybe you could argue that hotels have poor air exchange/circulation, so I end up breathing some of the air that the person 2 rooms down from me. I don't know the HVAC setup of large hotels, so that could be true. (Bonus points at WDW for Pop Century, CBR, Coronado, and the like in that case!)

Just curious: why bonus points to the resorts you mention "and the like?" Is there something unique to their construction beyond the outdoor hallways?
DW recently started travelling in the state for work again, and has done a few overnights. She says the same thing about hotels being a ghost town, and she hasn't been in contact with staff at all with the Hilton app providing room keys in-phone. There has to be something more to the hotel part of the article, in particular.

 

[GoofGoof]

Do we know that the hotel was "no less safe?" Maybe it just didn't feel less safe?

I don’t know what you mean by that. I was talking about the safety protocols setup. If I am standing in a lobby waiting to check in to a hotel and everyone is wearing masks and the line is Social distanced it is no different than a grocery store. If I walk down the hallway and pass another person it’s not much different than walking down an aisle in a supermarket. The interactions in public spaces are brief and have protocols to make them more safe. Once you are in your hotel room there are really no issues. There may be some surface contact risk but that’s pretty minimal assuming good cleaning takes place. The hotel I stayed at had individual HVAC units for each room (which I think is pretty common).

 

[GoofGoof]

As you suggest, I wonder if it's related to the fact the hotels have restaurants, cafes and fitness centers. It's not clear if the study look at the level of details, or just looked at people entering a hotel and not what they did when they got there.

Maybe @GoofGoof is on to something with the dining out being more prominent among hotel guests? More of an incidental finding than a fault in the hotel model at large (especially with such low occupancy).

I have been saying for a while that probably the most risky part of a WDW visit is the need to eat most or all meals out if you are coming in from out of state (especially by plane) and staying multiple nights. It’s the one place where groups of strangers are together, indoors without masks. With the parks and some of the resorts it’s possible to eat outdoors at least, but it’s still hard to eat all your meals outdoors and unless you have a DVC villa harder to eat in the room.