Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[DisneyCane]

Or closing theme parks because of NCAAF and NFL tailgates. Again, it is about uncontrolled community spread. It isn’t to punish the small businesses at all. It is to limit interactions in public to activities less dangerous and more essential.
If people really wanted their restaurants and neighborhood clothing boutiques opened, they wouldn’t be having gatherings in their houses and after service potlucks at church.

The goal isn't to punish the small business but that is the result. The owners and employees want the restaurants and other stores open a lot more than the customers do.

Until there is evidence that spread is happening at these businesses operating under current measures, there shouldn't even be a thought of closing them or banning indoor operations.

 

[hopemax]

The goal isn't to punish anyone. The goal is to avoid infected people sharing the same space as non-infected people. The more community spread, the more likely that someone within the restaurant is infected. Restaurants that are following the rules can't identify who the infected people are. Eating is an unmasked activity, with droplet spread. The same type of activity that is causing spread in households. So we're down to how effective are the distancing requirements, how loud are the people eating talking, ventilation, etc. Is it really a surprise that officials are being cautious?

 

[sullyinMT]

The goal isn't to punish the small business but that is the result. The owners and employees want the restaurants and other stores open a lot more than the customers do.

Until there is evidence that spread is happening at these businesses operating under current measures, there shouldn't even be a thought of closing them or banning indoor operations.

It is the result, and I 100% agree that it sucks. Without proper contact tracing, it’s unfortunately the only real tool we have beyond sound messaging.
We flew to Universal and HS in August. I’ve dined out, indoors mostly, almost every week since we were able to do so again. We go to our independent movie theater with and without our kids maybe twice a month. One son attends scout meetings and the other is at swim practice now. I lift at my gym 4-5 times a week and attend masters swimming practice. I’m not opposed to public contact.
As you state, it’s about proper protocols. That’s not happening in (most) private gatherings. Look at the amount of weddings, funerals, and general get togethers that have been super spreader events. All of the places I list are following the best they can. The theater seats 300 people with a mezzanine and they cap at 50 people. If a restaurant is packed we go somewhere else or pick a different night. But at some point the amount of active virus in a community breaks the comfort level, and authorities have to make tough decisions. When this is all over (and it will end), we can make assessments and have better ammunition for next time. People weren’t as mobile in 1917-1920, so the best laid plans fell a little short. Even then, we recovered as a nation. For now, what’s the harm in trying to do a little better?

 

[DisneyCane]

It is the result, and I 100% agree that it sucks. Without proper contact tracing, it’s unfortunately the only real tool we have beyond sound messaging.
We flew to Universal and HS in August. I’ve dined out, indoors mostly, almost every week since we were able to do so again. We go to our independent movie theater with and without our kids maybe twice a month. One son attends scout meetings and the other is at swim practice now. I lift at my gym 4-5 times a week and attend masters swimming practice. I’m not opposed to public contact.
As you state, it’s about proper protocols. That’s not happening in (most) private gatherings. Look at the amount of weddings, funerals, and general get togethers that have been super spreader events. All of the places I list are following the best they can. The theater seats 300 people with a mezzanine and they cap at 50 people. If a restaurant is packed we go somewhere else or pick a different night. But at some point the amount of active virus in a community breaks the comfort level, and authorities have to make tough decisions. When this is all over (and it will end), we can make assessments and have better ammunition for next time. People weren’t as mobile in 1917-1920, so the best laid plans fell a little short. Even then, we recovered as a nation. For now, what’s the harm in trying to do a little better?

Just out of curiosity is the movie theatre you go to in Forsyth? I'm just guessing based upon your location and description.

 

[DCBaker]

"The U.S. has surpassed 1 million new confirmed coronavirus cases since the start of November.

The tally of cases in just 10 days shows the reach of the virus amid a strong fall surge.

Several states posted new highs Tuesday, including 12,000 new cases in Illinois and more than 7,000 in Wisconsin, where the governor planned to take the unusual step of delivering a live address to the state urging unity and cooperation to fight the virus."

In the linked article, there are several updates on what is happening in different states.

The Latest: Hong Kong, Singapore plan 'air travel bubble'

HONG KONG — Hong Kong and Singapore will establish an "air travel bubble" Nov. 22 allowing travelers from the two cities to visit the other without having to serve quarantine in a first step to stimulate tourism amid the coronavirus pandemic.

apnews.com

 

[sullyinMT]

Just out of curiosity is the movie theatre you go to in Forsyth? I'm just guessing based upon your location and description.

No, about 100 miles off.

 

[JoeCamel]

"The U.S. has surpassed 1 million new confirmed coronavirus cases since the start of November.

The tally of cases in just 10 days shows the reach of the virus amid a strong fall surge.

Several states posted new highs Tuesday, including 12,000 new cases in Illinois and more than 7,000 in Wisconsin, where the governor planned to take the unusual step of delivering a live address to the state urging unity and cooperation to fight the virus."

In the linked article, there are several updates on what is happening in different states.

The Latest: Hong Kong, Singapore plan 'air travel bubble'

HONG KONG — Hong Kong and Singapore will establish an "air travel bubble" Nov. 22 allowing travelers from the two cities to visit the other without having to serve quarantine in a first step to stimulate tourism amid the coronavirus pandemic.

apnews.com

This is getting deep. Hope the masks and distance keep the flu down.

 

[GoofGoof]

However, punishing businesses who are operating as directed with protocols in place for what people do at home is just wrong on many levels.

It would be like shutting down sporting goods stores if too many people beat up their spouse with a baseball bat. Not the greatest analogy but I think it makes the point.

I guess in relation to this thread it would be like if Universal ended all capacity limits and it led to increased spread that the solution would be to close WDW.

I don’t disagree with this. If people could only follow the protocols laid out and not have parties and not go to businesses that are open but aren’t following the proper protocols community spread would likely be a lot lower. I see this kind of move as a last ditch effort by governments to stem the spread. We know the virus spreads at private gatherings, we also know the virus spreads at bars and restaurants too. It may be that the public venues are less problematic, but much easier to control. If I were a bar or restaurant owner I‘d be furious at the people who couldn’t help themselves and drove cases up to this point as much or more than the government for shutting down my indoor dining.

As far as WDW goes, the out of control community spread is certainly hurting their business. They aren’t being forced to close but they aren’t doing as well as they could be If people could just have some restraint and do the right thing. The funny part is a lot of the people railing on and on about the economy as an excuse to remove restrictions seem to care very little about the economy when they get together with friends or family against recommendations. It’s easy to care about business owners and minimum wage employees when it also lines up with what you feel like doing. Much harder to care when you have to limit your actions for the sake of the economy and the greater good. Many people involved in these types of activities think it either won’t happen to them or that they are young and healthy so if they get sick no big deal. That’s a lot of what’s driving this spread.

 

[sullyinMT]

This is getting deep. Hope the masks and distance keep the flu down.

I also hope flu shot uptake and effectiveness are on the far right side of the curve this year.

 

[GoofGoof]

The goal isn't to punish the small business but that is the result. The owners and employees want the restaurants and other stores open a lot more than the customers do.

Until there is evidence that spread is happening at these businesses operating under current measures, there shouldn't even be a thought of closing them or banning indoor operations.

There was a CDC study that referenced indoor dining but I know you don’t agree with that. Most governments are relying on public health experts or the CDC to help them set guidelines. It’s pretty clear that indoor interaction without a mask is a higher risk situation. That’s why it happens. It’s better to shut that down (like places this summer did) than shut the whole economy down like in March. Start with the known higher risks and work backwards.

 

[GoofGoof]

I also hope flu shot uptake and effectiveness are on the far right side of the curve this year.

I know a bunch of people who normally don’t get flu shots that got one this year. I haven’t seen any statistics on the country overall, but I bet it’s up from prior years. Hopefully they guessed better this year too.

edit: here‘s the estimate from the CDC:

Flu vaccine is produced by private manufacturers, so supply depends on manufacturers. For the 2020-2021 season, manufacturers have projected they will provide as many as 194-198 million doses of flu vaccine, which is more than the 175 million dose record set during the 2019-2020 flu season.

Upcoming 2020-2021 Influenza Season

What you need to know about the upcoming 2020-2021 influenza season in the United States.

www.cdc.gov

 

[hopemax]

I also hope flu shot uptake and effectiveness are on the far right side of the curve this year.

So now that flu shots are the topic, I have a question for our doctors. I had the nasal flu spray, last Monday. In the past, I had had the shot, but they were asking younger people to do the mist. I had no reaction with the shot, but the mist, holy cow. I was sneezing, eyes watering, runny nose, and then because of all the post-nasal, sore throat, cough to clear my passages. It showed up on Wed, lasted about 2 days and then went away. Is this reaction because of the mist? My sinuses can get irritated pretty easily, so should I stick with the shot in the future. Or is it this year's cocktail and shot/mist I might have ended up reacting the same?

But I can totally see why people say they got sick after getting a flu shot. (I don't think I was "sick" it seemed like an out of control hayfever.)

 

[GoofGoof]

So now that flu shots are the topic, I have a question for our doctors. I had the nasal flu spray, last Monday. In the past, I had had the shot, but they were asking younger people to do the mist. I had no reaction with the shot, but the mist, holy cow. I was sneezing, eyes watering, runny nose, and then because of all the post-nasal, sore throat, cough to clear my passages. It showed up on Wed, lasted about 2 days and then went away. Is this reaction because of the mist? My sinuses can get irritated pretty easily, so should I stick with the shot in the future. Or is it this year's cocktail and shot/mist I might have ended up reacting the same?

But I can totally see why people say they got sick after getting a flu shot. (I don't think I was "sick" it seemed like an out of control hayfever.)

I’m no doctor but I remember my kids (13 and 10) would get the nasal spray one years ago because they hated needles. I thought the main difference was nasal spray used a live but weakened virus and the shot is a dead virus. I thought maybe a few years back they stopped doing the spray one because we had to switch the kids to the shot, but maybe our pediatrician just stopped doing it.

 

[hopemax]

I’m no doctor but I remember my kids (13 and 10) would get the nasal spray one years ago because they hated needles. I thought the main difference was nasal spray used a live but weakened virus and the shot is a dead virus. I thought maybe a few years back they stopped doing the spray one because we had to switch the kids to the shot, but maybe our pediatrician just stopped doing it.

Yeah, the paperwork says it was live virus. Which brought up another ethical conundrum. I was sneezing my brains out, and not really sure if I was sneezing out replicated flu virus (since that's what Google said it was doing in my nose) in enough quantity to infect someone else. So was I supposed to stay home, not be around people? Kind of moot, since the only person I was around was DH who also got the spray, but we didn't go out. Mostly, because I was sure people would think I was spreading COVID around

 

[DCBaker]

 

[Heppenheimer]

So now that flu shots are the topic, I have a question for our doctors. I had the nasal flu spray, last Monday. In the past, I had had the shot, but they were asking younger people to do the mist. I had no reaction with the shot, but the mist, holy cow. I was sneezing, eyes watering, runny nose, and then because of all the post-nasal, sore throat, cough to clear my passages. It showed up on Wed, lasted about 2 days and then went away. Is this reaction because of the mist? My sinuses can get irritated pretty easily, so should I stick with the shot in the future. Or is it this year's cocktail and shot/mist I might have ended up reacting the same?

But I can totally see why people say they got sick after getting a flu shot. (I don't think I was "sick" it seemed like an out of control hayfever.)

The flu mist is a live virus. It usually causes a brief, mild flu-like illness.

 

[Heppenheimer]

Yeah, the paperwork says it was live virus. Which brought up another ethical conundrum. I was sneezing my brains out, and not really sure if I was sneezing out replicated flu virus (since that's what Google said it was doing in my nose) in enough quantity to infect someone else. So was I supposed to stay home, not be around people? Kind of moot, since the only person I was around was DH who also got the spray, but we didn't go out. Mostly, because I was sure people would think I was spreading COVID around

You shed very little viable virus. Enough to get someone sick with immunosuppression, like patients on some types of chemotherapy, or babies woth immature immune systems, but usually nobody else.

 

[_caleb]

Are you talking about the war we shouldn't have even fought in? I guess im the only one who wants a smaller goverment.
Besides good theory crafting should consider reality. The reality is a vast swath of America is not going to cancel Thanksgiving.

Whether or not you are for WW2 (!), the point was that when Germans were dropping bombs on cities in the UK, every household was required to black out their windows. Everyone sacrificed to resist the threat to their collective existence.

It should not be too much to ask Americans to wear a mask, keep their distance, and leave home only when necessary. Nobody wants to spend Thanksgiving apart from family and friends, but it’s a small price to pay for our country. And the only reason it’s not realistic to expect the vast majority to forego gathering for a meal is that too many are selfishly putting their own preferences before the wellbeing of our communities.

 

[_caleb]

We flew to Universal and HS in August. I’ve dined out, indoors mostly, almost every week since we were able to do so again. We go to our independent movie theater with and without our kids maybe twice a month. One son attends scout meetings and the other is at swim practice now. I lift at my gym 4-5 times a week and attend masters swimming practice.

How is it that you don’t consider this behavior to be part of the problem?

 

[Dan Deesnee]

Alas, as an expat Brit watching events back home with horror, I don’t have the same optimistic outlook. The pandemic could (and should) have been confronted much more effectively than it has been.

Yes because we've gone through this so many times. Figuring out the best way to deal with it should have been super easy.

This isn't like dealing with a hurricane. Looking back on the initial responses and the effectiveness of decisions, etc. with 20/20 vision should be used to prep for the next one, and that's about it.