Politics Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

This thread contains political discussion related to the original thread topic

JohnD

Well-Known Member
Looking at the Spring 2020 Mickey Monitor.

Ah! March 2020. Remember way back when you could visit at night, go to a water park, and attend the Epcot Flower and Garden Festival? Those were the days.
 

kong1802

Well-Known Member
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i'm not the one trying to force everyone into their homes for the rest of their lives. the burden of proof is on people like YOU to justify school closures or other mitigation measures that have ravaged the globe and put undue burden on the most vulnerable in society. but since you asked. please note to your 'apples to apples' point that this includes sweden, which never had a hard lock down and didn't close schools:

norway: https://www.thelocal.no/20200508/closing-schools-may-made-virus-spread-faster-norway-health-agency
finland and sweden: https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se...d8ffdb57b09/covid-19-school-aged-children.pdf
sweden breaking down risk by occupational group (teacher = no excess risk, tax driver = 5x risk): https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se...0f8/forekomst-covid-19-olika-yrkesgrupper.pdf
iceland: https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMoa2006100?articleTools=true



look, dude. i don't know what your deal is, but i'm not a russian bot, and i don't write "headlines." i read the whole study, so quit the condescending act. all you do is make yourself impossible to engage with and look exceedingly close minded.

last note, if you're waiting for someone to tell you, "okay, little kongy. you can do whatever you want no and not worry!" you're going to be waiting all your life. you're entitled to do that. you just don't get to decide for anybody else.


Let's go through your sources here....for funsies....


But she conceded that there as yet no research had been done to back up this theory. - womp womp

https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se...d8ffdb57b09/covid-19-school-aged-children.pdf

Ok, a little better, but wouldn't we have to know the community spread numbers of these countries in comparison? Weird that they didn't compare to say, the US......

https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se...0f8/forekomst-covid-19-olika-yrkesgrupper.pdf

This one isn't in english..... - womp womp

https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMoa2006100?articleTools=true

"The lack of increase in the incidence of infection over time may be due to containment efforts by the Icelandic health care authorities and their nimble response to the outbreak abroad. Testing of exposed persons with symptoms had been carried out for 1 month before the first SARS-CoV-2 case was identified in Iceland. Selfisolation, quarantining, and other social-distancing measures may also have help "

"Thus, the frequency of the SARS-CoV-2 infection in the overall Icelandic population was stable from March 13 to April 1, a finding that appears to indicate that the containment measures had been working. However, the virus has spread to the extent that unless we continue to test and isolate, track contacts, and quarantine, we are likely to fail in our efforts to contain the virus. "

Exactly what everyone is saying. Test, isolate, contact trace, quarantine..............

And add in mask wearing and social distancing. I'm not against schools opening where its safe. Not sure why you think that.


Thanks for sharing those sources.
 
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The Mom

Moderator
Premium Member
Would people please stop shouting back and forth AT each other. This is a discussion forum, not a shouting match. Thank you.

Please remember to post links to reputable news sources (not opinion pieces, because we all know about opinions) when you make claims if you want them to be viewed as more than just your opinion. Otherwise, take most everything posted here with a grain of salt.
 

Heppenheimer

Well-Known Member
i'm not the one trying to force everyone into their homes for the rest of their lives.

And nobody else is saying that either. There's a huge amount of room between carrying on like nothing in this world has changed in the past 6 months and shutting everything down completely and forever. But it requires dealing with uncertainty, taking good faith precautions, carefully applying control measures with enough nuance to deal with local situations, and listening to the advise of people who actually are experts in these matters.

We all want to go back to normal life. Unfortunately, we're dealing with something new that is preventing that. That "something" isn't overzealous governments or public health officials, that "something" is a novel coronavirus that has ravaged the world. This thing isn't going away by ignoring it.
 
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GoofGoof

Premium Member
i'm not the one trying to force everyone into their homes for the rest of their lives.

And nobody else is saying that either. There's a huge amount of room between carrying on like nothing in this world has changed in the past 6 months and shutting everything down completely and forever. But it requires dealing with uncertainty, taking good faith precautions, carefully applying control measures with enough nuance to deal with local situations, and listening to the advise of people who actually are experts in these matters.

We all want to go back to normal life. Unfortunately, we're dealing with something new that is preventing that. That "something" isn't overzealous governments of public health officials, that "something" is a novel coronavirus that has ravaged the world. This thing isn't going away by ignoring it.
Amen. This is not a black and white issue. There’s a huge grey area. The 2 extremes of locking everyone away forever on one extreme and ignoring the virus completely on the other are equally foolish paths. The solution has to lie in the middle. Unfortunately this has become so political and in American politics there’s Red and there’s Blue and a large number of people will just lock in and pick their side as gospel. That’s what’s happening here. People will fight anything that doesn’t agree with their narrative by trying to discredit the source. It’s straight from the cable news playbook (on both sides).

I’ve been saying this for months now in this thread, the vast majority of people (here and in the world) are not so far off from each other on what we all want. We may disagree on some details and speed of acting, but we all want to stay safe, get the economy working and get some version of normal life back. There are some outliers on both sides dealing in political talking points, conspiracy theories and rhetoric with a little bit of name calling thrown in. They represent the extremes and not the views of the masses.
 

chrisvee

Premium Member
I'm going to call this post -- The cautionary tale of Suwannee County Florida.

Little Suwannee County... Northern Florida county of only 44,000 people. DeSantis just celebrated the schools re-opening in Suwannee.
But Suwannee has a large prison -- which has had nearly 400 positive Covid cases.
But the cases haven't remained in the prison.

Most recent positivity rate is 22% in Suwannee. 45 deaths -- So more than 0.1% of the county has already been killed by the virus. (equivalent of over 300,000 deaths on a national level). Just yesterday alone, 412 cases were reported. So nearly 1% of the County reported positive in just 1 day -- that would be like 3 million positive new cases in 1 day on a national level. So far, there have been about 8700 tests in the county, so about 1/5th of the County has been tested, resulting in 1874 positive cases. So 4% of the county has tested positive -- the real infection rate is likely much higher. Meanwhile, kids are going to school. Masks are optional. Social distancing is "encouraged when possible."

Keep an eye on Suwanee County.
this is going to be a tragedy 😢
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
In today’s installment of angry Covid deniers gone wild:


They need to start putting these people in jail...where Covid runs wild. See how “brave” they are then. Another kid brutally assaulted by a group of self entitled morons. It doesn’t matter what You believe, the rules are the rules and if you can’t follow them then stay home.
 

Andrew C

You know what's funny?
Premium Member
If this had been managed with any degree of responsibility and common sense Florida could have been under 5% by now on a consistent basis.
There has been a degree of responsibility and common sense. I think you’re looking for a specific degree of responsibility and common sense. Which would have been a continuation of a full lockdown through June and after. That maybe could have kept them below 5% until they reopened. Statewide mask mandate wouldn’t have done it. Texas has that mandate. Their cases and hospitalizations are dropping like Florida but their 7 day average positivity rate is 24%! The rate in California is increasing again. Illinois is having a second spike in cases.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
There has been a degree of responsibility and common sense. I think you’re looking for a specific degree of responsibility and common sense. Which would have been a continuation of a full lockdown through June and after. That maybe could have kept them below 5% until they reopened. Statewide mask mandate wouldn’t have done it. Texas has that mandate. Their cases and hospitalizations are dropping like Florida but their 7 day average positivity rate is 24%! The rate in California is increasing again. Illinois is having a second spike in cases.
Masks aren’t the only thing, but mask mandates came well after the outbreak was already out of control. Lots of damage was already done. There are other basic things people are doing like having large parties or get togethers at their homes. People could have also avoided unnecessary exposure without masks like indoor dining. Eat out on the patio or better yet just get takeout. Bars are still at least partially open using the food sales loophole. Things like indoor dining and the food loophole are allowed under the law but people don’t have to do it just because it’s allowed. That’s where the common sense and personal responsibility comes in. I know it’s beating a dead horse and there are people who truly believe that no actions matter and the virus is just being the virus.
 

Andrew C

You know what's funny?
Premium Member
Masks aren’t the only thing, but mask mandates came well after the outbreak was already out of control. Lots of damage was already done. There are other basic things people are doing like having large parties or get togethers at their homes. People could have also avoided unnecessary exposure without masks like indoor dining. Eat out on the patio or better yet just get takeout. Bars are still at least partially open using the food sales loophole. Things like indoor dining and the food loophole are allowed under the law but people don’t have to do it just because it’s allowed. That’s where the common sense and personal responsibility comes in. I know it’s beating a dead horse and there are people who truly believe that no actions matter and the virus is just being the virus.
This is all true everywhere in the US. I get why Florida gets singled out on this forum. It’s a WDW forum. But I think it’s ridiculous how it also happens outside of here when other states did or are doing just as poorly or worse.
 

Jrb1979

Well-Known Member
This is all true everywhere in the US. I get why Florida gets singled out on this forum. It’s a WDW forum. But I think it’s ridiculous how it also happens outside of here when other states did or are doing just as poorly or worse.
I agree its true everywhere. I put a lot of that blame on not following the guidelines the CDC put out for states to reopen their economy. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it that states were supposed to have 2 to 3 weeks of decline in cases between phases? Obviously many states ignored that and now look at where we are
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
This is all true everywhere in the US. I get why Florida gets singled out on this forum. It’s a WDW forum. But I think it’s ridiculous how it also happens outside of here when other states did or are doing just as poorly or worse.
Agreed. Right now FL is one of the only holdouts to masks. Just beyond stupid. Outside of that it’s similar to what’s going on a lot of places. FL is in the same boat as places like SC (Myrtle Beach) and other popular travel spots as beimg a little too loose with the rules in favor of tourism. If you take a state like Maine or Vermont you can’t even enter the state without quarantining unless you are from a select few places with very low case counts and the results show its working. It’s crippling to tourism, but thats less relevant there than a place like FL.
 

Andrew C

You know what's funny?
Premium Member
I agree its true everywhere. I put a lot of that blame on not following the guidelines the CDC put out for states to reopen their economy. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it that states were supposed to have 2 to 3 weeks of decline in cases between phases? Obviously many states ignored that and now look at where we are
I believe that and a positivity rate below 5%. Many of the states achieved that and went into phase 1 reopenings. Many got very loosely goosey with it between phases 2 and 3. But even that isn’t the whole story. California being an example.
 

Touchdown

Well-Known Member
Agreed. Right now FL is one of the only holdouts to masks. Just beyond stupid. Outside of that it’s similar to what’s going on a lot of places. FL is in the same boat as places like SC (Myrtle Beach) and other popular travel spots as beimg a little too loose with the rules in favor of tourism. If you take a state like Maine or Vermont you can’t even enter the state without quarantining unless you are from a select few places with very low case counts and the results show its working. It’s crippling to tourism, but thats less relevant there than a place like FL.

Maine and Vermont rely very heavily on tourism, so it is crippling the state economy, but as that population is far older then Florida they are willing to accept the losses more.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Maine and Vermont rely very heavily on tourism, so it is crippling the state economy, but as that population is far older then Florida they are willing to accept the losses more.
Vermont is going to be a huge challenge for ski season. Lots of rental properties and resorts that will be upset with the lost revenues unless things improve by then. I thought Maine was just LL Bean and Poland Springs ;););) It’s actually on my bucket list of places to go...but they won’t have me right now. It’s the only East Coast state I haven’t spent any time in.
 
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