Politics Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

This thread contains political discussion related to the original thread topic

brianstl

Well-Known Member
They died of cancer. They were still positive for Covid but died of the cancer. That is how that works. Simple. Too many people are losing their minds and spewing the fake narrative that hospitals are falsely reporting deaths as Covid deaths when the person died of other causes. The stupidest one I have seen so far is a claim that a car accident victim was listed as a Covid death. That is just not happening. If that person with cancer goes into the hospital for Covid complications and dies as a direct result of Covid then they died of Covid, not cancer. And it is the same the other way around. A person can go into the hospital with Covid complications and still die from a heart attack, stroke, cancer, HIV, complications during surgery, etc. then they will be listed by what killed them.
Actually in most cases COVID-19 will be listed as a possible contributing factor in the death because it is possible that COVID-19 caused that person to die even a day earlier than they would have if they had not developed COVID-19. That death will then get added to the COVID-19 death count.
 

havoc315

Well-Known Member
Actually in most cases COVID-19 will be listed as a possible contributing factor in the death because it is possible that COVID-19 caused that person to die even a day earlier than they would have if they had not developed COVID-19. That death will then get added to the COVID-19 death count.

No, in Florida, it is only counted as a Covid death if it is listed as the PRIMARY cause.
That has resulted in Florida likely under-counting deaths significantly. In other words, there are likely many deaths of "Pneumonia - primary diagnosis, Covid-secondary diagnosis." Now, obviously, in almost every case, Covid caused the pneumonia. But it isn't being counted as a Covid death, since pneumonia is listed as the primary cause.
 

havoc315

Well-Known Member
I'm going to call this post -- The cautionary tale of Suwannee County Florida.

Little Suwannee County... Northern Florida county of only 44,000 people. DeSantis just celebrated the schools re-opening in Suwannee.
But Suwannee has a large prison -- which has had nearly 400 positive Covid cases.
But the cases haven't remained in the prison.

Most recent positivity rate is 22% in Suwannee. 45 deaths -- So more than 0.1% of the county has already been killed by the virus. (equivalent of over 300,000 deaths on a national level). Just yesterday alone, 412 cases were reported. So nearly 1% of the County reported positive in just 1 day -- that would be like 3 million positive new cases in 1 day on a national level. So far, there have been about 8700 tests in the county, so about 1/5th of the County has been tested, resulting in 1874 positive cases. So 4% of the county has tested positive -- the real infection rate is likely much higher. Meanwhile, kids are going to school. Masks are optional. Social distancing is "encouraged when possible."

Keep an eye on Suwanee County.
 

brianstl

Well-Known Member
No, in Florida, it is only counted as a Covid death if it is listed as the PRIMARY cause.
That has resulted in Florida likely under-counting deaths significantly. In other words, there are likely many deaths of "Pneumonia - primary diagnosis, Covid-secondary diagnosis." Now, obviously, in almost every case, Covid caused the pneumonia. But it isn't being counted as a Covid death, since pneumonia is listed as the primary cause.
This is incorrect.

Florida tallies their deaths according to the CDC guidelines. If COVID-19 is listed as a possible underlying cause of death it gets added to the count. So in your example the death gets added both to the pneumonia count and the COVID-19 count. After the end of the year when the CDC finalizes their data they go through and assign 1 cause of death to each case. Until that happens, these deaths get added to the counts of every underlying cause listed.
 

Lilofan

Well-Known Member
I'm going to call this post -- The cautionary tale of Suwannee County Florida.

Little Suwannee County... Northern Florida county of only 44,000 people. DeSantis just celebrated the schools re-opening in Suwannee.
But Suwannee has a large prison -- which has had nearly 400 positive Covid cases.
But the cases haven't remained in the prison.

Most recent positivity rate is 22% in Suwannee. 45 deaths -- So more than 0.1% of the county has already been killed by the virus. (equivalent of over 300,000 deaths on a national level). Just yesterday alone, 412 cases were reported. So nearly 1% of the County reported positive in just 1 day -- that would be like 3 million positive new cases in 1 day on a national level. So far, there have been about 8700 tests in the county, so about 1/5th of the County has been tested, resulting in 1874 positive cases. So 4% of the county has tested positive -- the real infection rate is likely much higher. Meanwhile, kids are going to school. Masks are optional. Social distancing is "encouraged when possible."

Keep an eye on Suwanee County.
Hopefully the families have made out their wills.
 

CaptainAmerica

Premium Member
No, in Florida, it is only counted as a Covid death if it is listed as the PRIMARY cause.
That has resulted in Florida likely under-counting deaths significantly. In other words, there are likely many deaths of "Pneumonia - primary diagnosis, Covid-secondary diagnosis." Now, obviously, in almost every case, Covid caused the pneumonia. But it isn't being counted as a Covid death, since pneumonia is listed as the primary cause.
What you're describing is not Florida under-counting deaths, it's other states over-counting deaths.

In Connecticut, a baby was smothered to death by improper bedding. They called it a COVID death because the baby tested positive after the fact.
 

CaptainAmerica

Premium Member
Oh geez....
April 1:

July 17:
 

SamusAranX

Well-Known Member
April 1:

July 17:

While I wont go as far as to say there is a systematic effort to "inflate" COVID numbers, between this, other reported individual miscounts, the UK "removing" 5,000 deaths, and the Miami-Dade data dump yesterday....I can't help but think of the old phrase "never attribute to malice that which can be explained by incomptence"
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
April 1:

July 17:
That means the death was not counted as a COVID-19 death. The governor reported it as such, but official counting would be based on the determined cause of death. This is part of why there are delays in reporting, because doctors are not just putting COVID-19 for anything and everything, and are doing the due diligence that is part of the process.
 

TJ Vazquez

Premium Member
In the Parks
No
While I wont go as far as to say there is a systematic effort to "inflate" COVID numbers, between this, other reported individual miscounts, the UK "removing" 5,000 deaths, and the Miami-Dade data dump yesterday....I can't help but think of the old phrase "never attribute to malice that which can be explained by incomptence"
I think its completely reasonable to question some of the data. That is a good thing to do. I just don't think these inaccuracies moves the needle that much in the overall picture.
 

Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
April 1:

July 17:

Death of these babies for any reason is tragic! Very sad!

For the April 1 newborn, am I reading this wrong, “An autopsy has been done but more tests are needed before a cause of death can be determined”

But I got the idea from the headline the cause of death was COVID?
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Death of these babies for any reason is tragic! Very sad!

For the April 1 newborn, am I reading this wrong, “An autopsy has been done but more tests are needed before a cause of death can be determined”

But I got the idea from the headline the cause of death was COVID?
The governor jumped the gun and announced it as a COVID-19 related death before a cause of death was determined.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
I think its completely reasonable to question some of the data. That is a good thing to do. I just don't think these inaccuracies moves the needle that much in the overall picture.
You are wrong. Nobody has actually died from Covid...it’s all a grand conspiracy. All the doctors (who spent years in medical school and practice to get to where they are now) are finding it worthwhile to throw away their careers to be part of this great conspiracy. The grieving family members are just crisis actors. Same with the hospital workers being interviewed. Can someone pass me the tin foil, I need to make my hat a little bigger ;)
 

SamusAranX

Well-Known Member
You are wrong. Nobody has actually died from Covid...it’s all a grand conspiracy. All the doctors (who spent years in medical school and practice to get to where they are now) are finding it worthwhile to throw away their careers to be part of this great conspiracy. The grieving family members are just crisis actors. Same with the hospital workers being interviewed. Can someone pass me the tin foil, I need to make my hat a little bigger ;)

I won't pass the tin foil since my post never got close to it.
 

MisterPenguin

Rumormonger
Premium Member
Wrong way, Florida...

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1597332960429.png
 

CaptainAmerica

Premium Member
That means the death was not counted as a COVID-19 death. The governor reported it as such, but official counting would be based on the determined cause of death. This is part of why there are delays in reporting, because doctors are not just putting COVID-19 for anything and everything, and are doing the due diligence that is part of the process.
That death was included in our statistics at the time. Maybe it has subsequently been removed, I'm not sure.

That said, your point is well taken and I'll say I trust the statistics much more than I trust the journalism. It's bad journalism that has propagated the lie that coronavirus deaths are significant among young, healthy people for example.
 

xdan0920

Think for yourselfer
They died of cancer. They were still positive for Covid but died of the cancer. That is how that works. Simple. Too many people are losing their minds and spewing the fake narrative that hospitals are falsely reporting deaths as Covid deaths when the person died of other causes. The stupidest one I have seen so far is a claim that a car accident victim was listed as a Covid death. That is just not happening. If that person with cancer goes into the hospital for Covid complications and dies as a direct result of Covid then they died of Covid, not cancer. And it is the same the other way around. A person can go into the hospital with Covid complications and still die from a heart attack, stroke, cancer, HIV, complications during surgery, etc. then they will be listed by what killed them.
If only. This isn’t how the counts work though.
I'm going to call this post -- The cautionary tale of Suwannee County Florida.

Little Suwannee County... Northern Florida county of only 44,000 people. DeSantis just celebrated the schools re-opening in Suwannee.
But Suwannee has a large prison -- which has had nearly 400 positive Covid cases.
But the cases haven't remained in the prison.

Most recent positivity rate is 22% in Suwannee. 45 deaths -- So more than 0.1% of the county has already been killed by the virus. (equivalent of over 300,000 deaths on a national level). Just yesterday alone, 412 cases were reported. So nearly 1% of the County reported positive in just 1 day -- that would be like 3 million positive new cases in 1 day on a national level. So far, there have been about 8700 tests in the county, so about 1/5th of the County has been tested, resulting in 1874 positive cases. So 4% of the county has tested positive -- the real infection rate is likely much higher. Meanwhile, kids are going to school. Masks are optional. Social distancing is "encouraged when possible."

Keep an eye on Suwanee County.
Very creative work with those numbers. Impressive fear mongering.
While I wont go as far as to say there is a systematic effort to "inflate" COVID numbers, between this, other reported individual miscounts, the UK "removing" 5,000 deaths, and the Miami-Dade data dump yesterday....I can't help but think of the old phrase "never attribute to malice that which can be explained by incomptence"
It’s a combination. It’s a lot of incompetence, it’s a lot of malice, it’s a lot of looking out for the hospitals bottom line.
 
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