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News Coronado Springs Expansion - Gran Destino Tower

Sir_Cliff

Well-Known Member
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It's possible that Disney wanted to give convention-goers a layout they're familiar with. Nothing wrong with that as a goal.
I imagine that the less overt attention to theming and storytelling in large part has to do with the fact that convention business is naturally going to be different from their usual clientele. There are plenty of people in this world who find Disney kind of cheesy and, for example, would roll their eyes at the idea of staying in a giant recreation of a national park lodge in Central Florida. So I sense that they're trying to reach some midway point between a nice business hotel that will compare favourably to what conventioneers are used to and a themed Disney resort that appeals as much as possible to their traditional market.

You can argue that Disney should just be Disney and not dilute its brand in trying to appeal to those who don't like its products. In general, I would agree with that. However, conventions are obviously lucrative for Disney and the people who attend them have to go wherever they're held. Personally, I think I would also really appreciate the amenities that this hotel offers. Particularly if I happened to be travelling by myself, I think this would be one of the more appealing options on property.
 
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larryz

Can't 'Member Anything
Premium Member
At some point, TDO must hate sites like this, because whenever they start a project and try to keep things quiet and confidential, it's like they're putting the project in a can, and there's a huge crowd of gawkers (us) standing around with giant can openers, ready to cut it open and dissect to the Nth detail every molecule of the effort.

Sometimes I don't blame them for dumbing things down... a lot less analysis to bear over that.

But, of course, that just excites and energizes the "Disney is dumbing everything down" crowd.
 

Missing20K

Well-Known Member
Why, or how, isn't the relationship between Dali and Disney a 'good enough' story?

This is getting ridiculous.
Because that's not the story. Disney themselves state it's only a coincidence. See the quote from Stofcik @MisterPenguin posted.

"The starting point for the project was to celebrate Spanish, Mexican and South American cultures, including food, music, colors, design and textiles," said David Stofcik, executive architect at Walt Disney Imagineering.
As we started getting into it, especially from the Spanish side, we discovered an amazing collaboration that Disney had with Salvador Dali from Spain. And we really started to look into that from a graphic scenic kind of standpoint, colors,” Stofcik said.*

Hmmm... like some sort of Contempofusion Hispania motif...


*
At what point does the Contempofusion Hispania stop being a celebration of all things "Hispania" (which is such an odd concept considering the breadth of Hispanic culture) and become pandering to what consumers think Hispania culture (again, not sure there is such a thing) is/was?

Mesoamerica is not Catalonia. To try and smash them together as a theme does a disservice to both cultures and to the guest experience.
 

SorcererMC

Well-Known Member
Because that's not the story. Disney themselves state it's only a coincidence. See the quote from Stofcik @MisterPenguin posted.
Stofcik is clearly referring to the creative process 'The starting point' to 'Started getting into it' within the parameter of 'Spanish'.

Btw, here's another quote from Stofcik in that link about the philosophical underpinnings of the design:
“We didn’t want to make it too much color everywhere,” Stofcik said. “If it was everywhere, then everybody’s screaming, screaming, screaming it’s too much. So we wanted to downplay and really pick our points.”

aka Minimalism. Just like I was saying yesterday, because to me it was already communicated in the design itself.
too risky in a market that loves minimalism in hotel design
Someone tell me again how the Gran Destino lobby isn't 'Disney' enough, because I think that with its bold patterns and colors, it's the Disney version of this. Consumers don't want something 'in your face' or over-the-top. IMO despite the fact that it's Dali (who was larger than life), and Disney, it doesn't need to be.
OTOH I don't disagree with you on this point:
pandering to what consumers think Hispania culture (again, not sure there is such a thing) is/was?
'Used-to-Rule Mexico, Mexico, Used-to-be Mexico'. ;)
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
The pic I posted was for stonework, which isn't something I would expect Disney to replicate for a hotel. I imagine that doing it right would be labor-intensive. Maybe for a boutique-style hotel (like SW), but I wouldn't expect it at this scale.
The image is stonework, but actual stone is not required to create such an aesthetic. Just this year SeaWorld built Sesame Street full of brick facades but no actual bricks were used. Universal just built a fantastic Gothic ruin without a single stone, it is all steel and carved stucco. The tower is also a concrete structure, which could have easily been incorporated into such an aesthetic while still remaining rather simple as a structural system.

As for as the interior design goes - this is an on-trend example, via AD:
Someone tell me again how the Gran Destino lobby isn't 'Disney' enough, because I think that with its bold patterns and colors, it's the Disney version of this. Consumers don't want something 'in your face' or over-the-top. IMO despite the fact that it's Dali (who was larger than life), and Disney, it doesn't need to be.

Re: consumer markets. Business travelers are increasingly leisure travelers, too. WDW fits the bill for that as a vacation destination, when it might otherwise be considered just a 'family destination'. IMO this hotel would entice people (eg without kids or with older kids) to stay on-property at Disney who otherwise wouldn't. As for luxury travelers, if they want to see contoured architecture like Gaudi, they are just going to go to Spain...
(Disney probably could price these rooms higher given the novelty, but they aren't because that's not the market they want.)
It is not “Disney” enough because themed design is more than just interior decoration. Almost none of that aesthetic is carried to the walls or ceiling which are very planar. Some of the few arches in the building, the large windows, are bookended by large, square engaged columns. You were also previously referencing Guadí, an architect, so it seems particularly odd to claim that a lot of the design was inspired by the work of an architect, just not the actual architecture.

Specifically saying that the design is on trend seems to be supporting evidence for the claim that the design is something one could expect at other large, business oriented hotels. It also still begs the question of “Why insist on a concept that doesn’t work?” If Guadí or Dalí alone are too much, much less combined, then maybe do something else that better fits the budget and alleged market. Disney freely chose to do a concept that they themselves admit is too much for what they actually wanted.
 

SorcererMC

Well-Known Member
You were also previously referencing Guadí, an architect, so it seems particularly odd to claim that a lot of the design was inspired by the work of an architect, just not the actual architecture.
To key in on this - I think that it is inspired by Gaudi's work. The difference to me between what Disney has done, for example, is that Gaudi's ironwork is functional. Disney has used it as decorative form. I can see how some might view that as sub-par.
Specifically saying that the design is on trend seems to be supporting evidence for the claim that the design is something one could expect at other large, business oriented hotels. It also still begs the question of “Why insist on a concept that doesn’t work?” If Guadí or Dalí alone are too much, much less combined, then maybe do something else that better fits the budget and alleged market. Disney freely chose to do a concept that they themselves admit is too much for what they actually wanted.
Ok. Thanks for this because I think it clarifies the argument of why people are saying 'it's not enough'. With respect to Dali influence, they kept it narrowly focused on the short. For me that is sufficient to anchor it, but I feel it demands more of the guest in terms of interacting with the space. If they want to know more, the impetus is on them. I do think it's a challenge for Disney to combine underlying works in this manner, and I'm trying to think of any other hotel where they have done so?

In large part I attribute the clumsiness of this retroactive application to the entire resort to management. IMO there are plenty of other Mexican-inspired themes that they could have chosen, that would have been consistent with the resort. It does beg the question, why? The more I think about it, the more I think they need a cultural intelligence expert.
 
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Sam4D23

Well-Known Member
In large part I attribute the clumsiness of this retroactive application to the entire resort to management. IMO there are plenty of other Mexican-inspired themes that they could have chosen, that would have been consistent with the resort. It does beg the question, why? The more I think about it, the more I think they need a cultural intelligence expert.
Either management thinks that guests are too stupid to know Spain and Mexico are different countries, or (and debatably worse), they themselves don't know.
 

MisterPenguin

Rumormonger
Premium Member
Coronado Springs is specifically a Mexican/American Southwest themed resort. The resort this tower is supposed to fit into.
And American Southwest and Southern Mexico are already two different things. Just because you're used to the fact that Disney mashed them together into one resort and claimed they were one thing doesn't make them one thing. It'd be like making a resort that's French/German or Polish/Italian. Once you do that, why not throw in other European countries?

CSR is not the pure cultural breed you think it is. From Mayan ruins to Tex-Mex, it's a mishmash. Pulling out the Spanish influences and melding them in a tower is arguably bringing those things together rather than being a new disjointed endeavor.
 

Sam4D23

Well-Known Member
And American Southwest and Southern Mexico are already two different things. Just because you're used to the fact that Disney mashed them together into one resort and claimed they were one thing doesn't make them one thing. It'd be like making a resort that's French/German or Polish/Italian. Once you do that, why not throw in other European countries?

CSR is not the pure cultural breed you think it is. From Mayan ruins to Tex-Mex, it's a mishmash. Pulling out the Spanish influences and melding them in a tower is arguably bringing those things together rather than being a new disjointed endeavor.
Well...technically the American Southwest and Mexico were the same thing at some point...so.........anyways...besides that point the stated theme of the resort is Mexican-American Southwest. Spain is 5,000 miles from that region.

The point is that there are stronger overlapping themes, designs, etc. amongst the southwest and Mexico than there is between Mexico as a whole and Spain...not to mention Catalonia. The only thing in common with Mexico and Spain is that they were in an empire together and both countries primary language is Spanish. It showcases a lack of cultural intelligence or at least competence for them to mash the two together.

Given the cultural ignorance of the Disney company today, I wouldn't be surprised if they made a generic "European" hotel tbh.
 

BD-Anaheim

Well-Known Member
Well...technically the American Southwest and Mexico were the same thing at some point...so.........anyways...besides that point the stated theme of the resort is Mexican-American Southwest. Spain is 5,000 miles from that region.

The point is that there are stronger overlapping themes, designs, etc. amongst the southwest and Mexico than there is between Mexico as a whole and Spain...not to mention Catalonia. The only thing in common with Mexico and Spain is that they were in an empire together and both countries primary language is Spanish. It showcases a lack of cultural intelligence or at least competence for them to mash the two together.

Given the cultural ignorance of the Disney company today, I wouldn't be surprised if they made a generic "European" hotel tbh.
Dali once said after a visit to Mexico City, “I’m never going back to Mexico. I can’t stand a country more surrealist than my paintings.”

It’s also relevant to mention that some of the major surrealists of the era — Varo, Leonora Carrington, Wolfgang Paalen, André Breton — moved to Mexico.

Mexico’s surrealist past shouldnt be brushed aside in such a simplistic fashion as to say the movement started in Spain (especially when the roots of surrealism are from the Dada movement in Paris).
 
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