J
joviacdan
General Grizz said:
Yeah - Great idea. I mean, it's not like the Magic Kingdom has enough gift shops already....
-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
CoP is going BYE BYE acording to Jim Hill......
- Thread starter KevinPage
- Start date
Yeah - Great idea. I mean, it's not like the Magic Kingdom has enough gift shops already....
mrtoad
Well-Known Member
General Grizz said:
Grizz, I was going to sign the petition but had a few questions. It says the doors closed on CoP on October 21 for what might be the last time. How old is this petition? Is it an old one from a panic attack about CoP in the past? And lastly, how does Disney get the petition?
Thanks,
Mike
No, they need more. I mean, there are a lot of rides that don't dump you into a gift shop - Big Thunder, IASM, Dumbo.... :hammer:joviacdan said:
Seriously, though, I agree. There needs to be a decline in the number of gift shops. IMO, it takes away from the attraction if you are dumped into a gift shop, it makes me think "cheap cheap cheap, we only want your money". At least they turned off those damn video screens in Splash Mountain.
J
joviacdan
Exactly.
Funny thing is, I like some of those gift shops. I think the one at Tower Of Terror is great. I think the one at Splash Mountain is great. Of course, I never buy anything at them. But I do know what you mean.
I know this is for another thread, but you know what's worse than the countless gift shops? It's the people at the entrance of the parks asking to take your picture. Especially at MGM. I swear, we walked in there one day last month and 4 different people asked us if they could take our picture.
Funny thing is, I like some of those gift shops. I think the one at Tower Of Terror is great. I think the one at Splash Mountain is great. Of course, I never buy anything at them. But I do know what you mean.
I know this is for another thread, but you know what's worse than the countless gift shops? It's the people at the entrance of the parks asking to take your picture. Especially at MGM. I swear, we walked in there one day last month and 4 different people asked us if they could take our picture.
General Grizz
New Member
This was probably back when I joined WDWMagic in October 2001.mrtoad said:
Petitions are NOT the most effective way to do this (and the originator would send it to the WDC, I believe), but letters are most important. Phone calls, letters, emails, guest relations, and a lot more.
I'll be giving specific "orders" within the next month if you need addresses, email addresses. I will make everything out there and convenient. BUT -- until then, don't lose the passion!
joel_maxwell
Permanent Resident of EPCOT
General Grizz said:
help GRIZZ! oh help our CoP. it just makes me sad to think of it. ill be waiting for instuctions.
Lee
Adventurer
I had forgotten about this letter from Marty Sklar from 2000. I don't know how many folks have seen it, so I'll put it up here. It's in response to a CoP fan writing him with concerns that the attraction might close. Kinda puts it into perspective.
<Dear Mr. Addison:
I have received your letter regarding your "Save the Carousel" campaign, and am also aware that you have written Paul Pressler and others about the same subject.
On the one hand - having written material for every version of the Carousel of Progress and supervised the recordings of Rex Allen for his role as "Father" - I can appreciate your sentimentality. On the other hand, I am also well aware that attendance at the Carousel has been in a constant decline for a number of years. The fact is that today's guests at our Disney Parks prefer other forms of storytelling, and not all of them are "thrill rides."
Although we have looked at other options for use of the Carousel building (as we have at Disneyland), we have no plans at the moment to replace or close the Carousel at the Walt Disney World Magic Kingdom. However, I must underscore the fact that we are following history begun in the earliest days of Disneyland by Walt Disney when we evaluate replacing attractions. Walt started doing that almost immediately, and not all the attractions he replaced were "unpopular," or did not work for one reason or another. In fact, attractions like the Viewliner train and Midget Autopia were very popular, especially with young visitors. (Walt also tore down one of my personal favorites, The Chicken Plantation Restaraunt along the Rivers of America in Frontierland to build New Orleans Square in Disneyland; and later we removed the popular Rainbow Caverns Mine Train to build Big Thunder Mountain Railroad.)
Forms of entertainment change, sometimes dramatically, over time. What appealed and communicated to an audience in the 1960's does not necessarily work in the year 2000. For example, most of us would be bored to tears with the pace of 1960's television shows and would "zap!" 1960's style commercials even faster today than we did 30-some years ago. Our shows and storytelling devices must be as relevant in the 21st century as Walt's were in the 20th century.
I apologize for being so long-winded with this response. No one, except my colleague John Hench, now in his 62nd year at Disney - he designed the Carousel buildings for both Disneyland and the Magic Kingdom - has a longer and more involving connection with the Carousel. I was responsible for "selling" G.E. on moving the show from the New York World's fair to Disneyland, and then to Walt Disney World; and working with ________ and Bob Sherman on the music, Marc Davis and John Hench on the scene vignettes, Claude Coats on the layout and production, and Wathel Rogers on the figure programming was like spending everyday at a Disney Legends convention.
But, Mr. Addison, if the time comes when we have the need, a "better idea," and the funding, I will be the first in line to change out the Carousel. And I will shed many tears at its demise.
Sincerely, Martin A. Sklar>
<Dear Mr. Addison:
I have received your letter regarding your "Save the Carousel" campaign, and am also aware that you have written Paul Pressler and others about the same subject.
On the one hand - having written material for every version of the Carousel of Progress and supervised the recordings of Rex Allen for his role as "Father" - I can appreciate your sentimentality. On the other hand, I am also well aware that attendance at the Carousel has been in a constant decline for a number of years. The fact is that today's guests at our Disney Parks prefer other forms of storytelling, and not all of them are "thrill rides."
Although we have looked at other options for use of the Carousel building (as we have at Disneyland), we have no plans at the moment to replace or close the Carousel at the Walt Disney World Magic Kingdom. However, I must underscore the fact that we are following history begun in the earliest days of Disneyland by Walt Disney when we evaluate replacing attractions. Walt started doing that almost immediately, and not all the attractions he replaced were "unpopular," or did not work for one reason or another. In fact, attractions like the Viewliner train and Midget Autopia were very popular, especially with young visitors. (Walt also tore down one of my personal favorites, The Chicken Plantation Restaraunt along the Rivers of America in Frontierland to build New Orleans Square in Disneyland; and later we removed the popular Rainbow Caverns Mine Train to build Big Thunder Mountain Railroad.)
Forms of entertainment change, sometimes dramatically, over time. What appealed and communicated to an audience in the 1960's does not necessarily work in the year 2000. For example, most of us would be bored to tears with the pace of 1960's television shows and would "zap!" 1960's style commercials even faster today than we did 30-some years ago. Our shows and storytelling devices must be as relevant in the 21st century as Walt's were in the 20th century.
I apologize for being so long-winded with this response. No one, except my colleague John Hench, now in his 62nd year at Disney - he designed the Carousel buildings for both Disneyland and the Magic Kingdom - has a longer and more involving connection with the Carousel. I was responsible for "selling" G.E. on moving the show from the New York World's fair to Disneyland, and then to Walt Disney World; and working with ________ and Bob Sherman on the music, Marc Davis and John Hench on the scene vignettes, Claude Coats on the layout and production, and Wathel Rogers on the figure programming was like spending everyday at a Disney Legends convention.
But, Mr. Addison, if the time comes when we have the need, a "better idea," and the funding, I will be the first in line to change out the Carousel. And I will shed many tears at its demise.
Sincerely, Martin A. Sklar>
Nice letter from Mr. Sklar. Maybe he still has his soul. 
I firmly believe that the CoP needs to stay open, somewhere in WDW, for everyone to see. And it absolutely needs to be rehabbed and updated. I feel that it bring's perspective on today's world, that everything we have today didn't exist 10, 15, or 20 years ago. Too many people believe that they are entitled to certain things, or deserve them, but, in reality, they need to be earned. And it's always amazing to watch CoP, and realize just how far we've come in the past 100 years.
I firmly believe that the CoP needs to stay open, somewhere in WDW, for everyone to see. And it absolutely needs to be rehabbed and updated. I feel that it bring's perspective on today's world, that everything we have today didn't exist 10, 15, or 20 years ago. Too many people believe that they are entitled to certain things, or deserve them, but, in reality, they need to be earned. And it's always amazing to watch CoP, and realize just how far we've come in the past 100 years.
mrtoad
Well-Known Member
Lee said:
Even if I am one who does not want to see the CoP go away, this letter was good to read. It an show that sometimes there is a bigger picture to look at. I am not saying I am changing my mind and say it needs to go, because I am not. I am just saying that sometimes things change and that is not always bad...
WDWScottieBoy
Well-Known Member
That letter was excellent and proves that there are still some at the WDC that understand Walt's ideas, beliefs and wishes. I wonder if his view is still the same 4 years later (as the letter was written in 2000 if I read that right). I know he won't be the only one to shed some tears if CoP is taken away from us. As far as getting a "better idea," from the looks of it from the past several years, I don't think many of the rides being replaced have had a "better idea" go in their spot. They have taken out out most memorable rides, rides that have meaning to us (20K, Toad, Skyway, AE....and now possibly TK and CoP). Not only do they mean something to Walt himself, but they hold special memories in each and every one of our hearts (for the most part). I have a feeling that these two rides, 20K and TK, are going to be just that...memories. It's sad to know these things happen and it's very unfortunate. I'm going to spend time on each trip going on the rides that I know will soon be leaving. 
mrtoad
Well-Known Member
WDWScottieBoy said:That letter was excellent and proves that there are still some at the WDC that understand Walt's ideas, beliefs and wishes. I wonder if his view is still the same 4 years later (as the letter was written in 2000 if I read that right). I know he won't be the only one to shed some tears if CoP is taken away from us. As far as getting a "better idea," from the looks of it from the past several years, I don't think many of the rides being replaced have had a "better idea" go in their spot. They have taken out out most memorable rides, rides that have meaning to us (20K, Toad, Skyway, AE....and now possibly TK and CoP). Not only do they mean something to Walt himself, but they hold special memories in each and every one of our hearts (for the most part). I have a feeling that these two rides, 20K and TK, are going to be just that...memories. It's sad to know these things happen and it's very unfortunate. I'm going to spend time on each trip going on the rides that I know will soon be leaving.
As I said, I don't want to see CoP go away but felt I should play devil's advocate for a second. Two of the attractions you mentioned were replacement attractions themselves (TK and AE) so maybe if so many people found a love for those, people could find love for a replacement.
General Grizz
New Member
I would critique Mr. Sklar's letter, but this really does sum it up.Number_6 said:
I am in promotion for new great ideas and a raising of standards. However, flying saucers (OR A GIFT SHOP) is not an option. Nor is "Innoventions." If Disney would show care for their rehabs and keep the emphasis and meaning of what Disney stands for in the newer replacements (also see: quality), I wouldn't be so ticked at WDC.
There is a HUGE difference between CHANGE and BETTER IDEA. . . not to mention change and progress.
Come on. One out of over 180 US Disney attractions that Walt Disney wanted open. Let's respect his wishes and make it better.
Pixie Duster
New Member
I agree.
People have looked at me funny because I say I know Disney is a business and I know what it takes to keep a theme park current. I have reservations about attractions closing, but I know why it happens and I understand it. However, THIS IS A PROBLEM. The only reason why I have a problem with CoP closing is not because of some personal attachment to it, but because it was the one attraction that Walt wanted to remain open. Why is it so hard for our company to remain loyal to it's creator?
People have looked at me funny because I say I know Disney is a business and I know what it takes to keep a theme park current. I have reservations about attractions closing, but I know why it happens and I understand it. However, THIS IS A PROBLEM. The only reason why I have a problem with CoP closing is not because of some personal attachment to it, but because it was the one attraction that Walt wanted to remain open. Why is it so hard for our company to remain loyal to it's creator?
wannab@dis
Well-Known Member
Here's my two cents...
I really like CoP and enjoy it immensely every time I get a chance to see it. Since I've been going during off-peak times in recent years, I've only seen it on a couple of visits. Prior to that, we used to catch it every visit.
Now, it's showing a little wear & tear, but that's to be expected from an attraction with the years of service that CoP has given us. They really should spruce it up, update the final scene and then REALLY change the exterior and entrance. Here's my idea. Let's give it a new facade and build an enclosed queue for the show. In the queue, add a disney museum that shows pictures over the years of the parks, models from yesterday and give a sense of "progress" during the queue. Now you have two attractions in one and with a fairly small amount of money spent.
The only question remains, where should it be? Stay in the same location or maybe move over to a spot in Epcot. Now that will take some dollars.
Whatever they do, CoP should not be shutdown. It is the soul of Walt's design and love of the parks. It should remain for no other reason than the request of Walt.
I really like CoP and enjoy it immensely every time I get a chance to see it. Since I've been going during off-peak times in recent years, I've only seen it on a couple of visits. Prior to that, we used to catch it every visit.
Now, it's showing a little wear & tear, but that's to be expected from an attraction with the years of service that CoP has given us. They really should spruce it up, update the final scene and then REALLY change the exterior and entrance. Here's my idea. Let's give it a new facade and build an enclosed queue for the show. In the queue, add a disney museum that shows pictures over the years of the parks, models from yesterday and give a sense of "progress" during the queue. Now you have two attractions in one and with a fairly small amount of money spent.
The only question remains, where should it be? Stay in the same location or maybe move over to a spot in Epcot. Now that will take some dollars.
Whatever they do, CoP should not be shutdown. It is the soul of Walt's design and love of the parks. It should remain for no other reason than the request of Walt.