Married@WDW
Member
And to answer that last question -- I do think Hulk would fit in at Six Flags. Probably fit in better there than at Universal!
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Continued: Nobody at IOA Am I daydreaming?? lol..
- Thread starter MrPromey
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DigitalDisney
New Member
The Hulk wouldn't fit in at a SF park at all.
As several of us have said (but others fail to realize) is that the Hulk is actually well themed for a roller-coaster. The only theming Six Flags knows how to do is the dirty / deserted / wrecked / Gotham kind. They wouldn't be able to pull off a Hulk theme nearly as well as Universal did. The Hulk would look very out of place in a SF park, IMO.
If you removed the theming, then the ride may be better at a SF park, since they cater more to the thrill-seekers.
As several of us have said (but others fail to realize) is that the Hulk is actually well themed for a roller-coaster. The only theming Six Flags knows how to do is the dirty / deserted / wrecked / Gotham kind. They wouldn't be able to pull off a Hulk theme nearly as well as Universal did. The Hulk would look very out of place in a SF park, IMO.
If you removed the theming, then the ride may be better at a SF park, since they cater more to the thrill-seekers.
Tom Morrow
Well-Known Member
Exactly, DigitalDisney. and heres why:
http://www.rcdb.com/installationgallery9.htm?Picture=2
Most Six Flags coasters are like that. Absolutely no theming, very little landscaping around it, fading paint, etc. The fact is, Hulk and DD are not themed to Disney standards but are high above almost everything else.
http://www.rcdb.com/installationgallery9.htm?Picture=2
Most Six Flags coasters are like that. Absolutely no theming, very little landscaping around it, fading paint, etc. The fact is, Hulk and DD are not themed to Disney standards but are high above almost everything else.
So you post a picture of a wooden coaster? I’d like to ask you again, exactly where on the ride is there a theme present on the Hulk? Are you talking about the paint job on the track? Half the Six Flags parks have an almost identical paint job. Are you talking about the little spiel about it having to work this time that you hear just before the launch? Am I missing something? Did they have an animatroic or set piece or some giant blow up thing missing from it the dozen or so times that I went? Was I riding in the only train that looked like a normal B&M shell? Please, please, please back up your claim and tell me where these theme elements on this ride are.
BTW, here is a picture of a Six Flags coaster with a “theme” that looks similar to the hulk only they call it “Medusa”
http://www.coastergallery.com/1999/GA34.html
Tom Morrow
Well-Known Member
Hulk does not have standard B&M trains. These are standard B&M looping trains:
http://www.rcdb.com/installationgallery94.htm?Picture=9
~ Kumba, Busch Gardens Tampa
and these are Hulk's:
http://www.rcdb.com/installationgallery557.htm?Picture=8
They're a lot different.
So Anyway, Hulk has theming. The entire queue and station are housed in a big building themed as a science lab. The launch tube is the Gamma tube. The story is that you are entering Dr. Bruce Banner's lab, while police are after him. He is going to attempt to use the Gamma tube to "destroy" the Hulk, but it doesn't work like always. When Hulk rides over the water, jets shoot out, making it look like it skims the water. The 2nd tunnel is themed as well, and it is mist filled. ALL of this is theming. Yes, I know there isn't much theming on the ride itself, but honestly, Rock n Rollercoaster is the same way. The theming on the ride is cardboard cutouts that light up when you approach them. Yes, I know Rock 'n' Rollercoaster's queue, station, facade, and exit are much better themed, but that is Disney. By comparison, the theming Hulk has is more than almost all parks have.
Look! This is theming! Medusa doesn't have this. Instead, Medusa has a plain, open air station.
http://198.65.141.42/ioa/mshi/IOA-Hulk-Queue2.jpg
http://198.65.141.42/ioa/mshi/IOA-Hulk-Queue.jpg
http://www.rcdb.com/installationgallery94.htm?Picture=9
~ Kumba, Busch Gardens Tampa
and these are Hulk's:
http://www.rcdb.com/installationgallery557.htm?Picture=8
They're a lot different.
So Anyway, Hulk has theming. The entire queue and station are housed in a big building themed as a science lab. The launch tube is the Gamma tube. The story is that you are entering Dr. Bruce Banner's lab, while police are after him. He is going to attempt to use the Gamma tube to "destroy" the Hulk, but it doesn't work like always. When Hulk rides over the water, jets shoot out, making it look like it skims the water. The 2nd tunnel is themed as well, and it is mist filled. ALL of this is theming. Yes, I know there isn't much theming on the ride itself, but honestly, Rock n Rollercoaster is the same way. The theming on the ride is cardboard cutouts that light up when you approach them. Yes, I know Rock 'n' Rollercoaster's queue, station, facade, and exit are much better themed, but that is Disney. By comparison, the theming Hulk has is more than almost all parks have.
Look! This is theming! Medusa doesn't have this. Instead, Medusa has a plain, open air station.
http://198.65.141.42/ioa/mshi/IOA-Hulk-Queue2.jpg
http://198.65.141.42/ioa/mshi/IOA-Hulk-Queue.jpg
Rider
Well-Known Member
Lets see....
First the link to the DD pics you gave had no good ones of the dragon cars. Here is a better one: http://www.rcdb.com/installationgallery558.htm?Picture=19
As for that other thing... jezz they look really cheep. If Universal had used them MORE people would be mad.
DD or Hulk wouldn't fit in Six Flags. This is a pic of what Six Flags does: http://www.rcdb.com/installationgallery281.htm?Picture=1
But they do fit in Univsersal. I'm glad a theme park finally had the guts to show the supports. It adds so many possibilites because they dont have to spend money to hide them, or build smaller rides to keep it out of view.
Hulk does not have standard coaster cars. They are custom designed.
As for Medusa.... sigh they are nothing alike. Mesusa is a floorless coaster, using a layout more like Kumba. No theme at all.
First the link to the DD pics you gave had no good ones of the dragon cars. Here is a better one: http://www.rcdb.com/installationgallery558.htm?Picture=19
As for that other thing... jezz they look really cheep. If Universal had used them MORE people would be mad.
DD or Hulk wouldn't fit in Six Flags. This is a pic of what Six Flags does: http://www.rcdb.com/installationgallery281.htm?Picture=1
But they do fit in Univsersal. I'm glad a theme park finally had the guts to show the supports. It adds so many possibilites because they dont have to spend money to hide them, or build smaller rides to keep it out of view.
Hulk does not have standard coaster cars. They are custom designed.
As for Medusa.... sigh they are nothing alike. Mesusa is a floorless coaster, using a layout more like Kumba. No theme at all.
Gee, you mean the other ones I pointed out look cheap? Really? You think so? That’s funny because although they look more like cartoon dragons (and lets face it, these are rides for kids) their cars look just as much like what they are meant to represent as DD’s do. They are both fiberglass shells. And the kiddy coasters devote more of the car space to the “theme” than would be possible on DD.
As for the Hulk having custom cars, those feel like the exact same pads that knock my head around on Kumba and Montu. I may be mistaken but the only thing that seems custom about those cars is maybe, the fiberglass frame. I’m pretty sure they are standard vehicles in the sense that most B&M’s are at least a little bit custom.
What I was pointing out with Medusa ( “sigh”) was the fact that it had a very, very similar paint job and that from the ground, its layout doesn’t really look any less themed than Hulk’s. Here we go with that selective reading again… You were the person that used trees as an example of theme right? Maybe landscaping counts as a theme in your book but if that’s the case, I have a pretty well themed front yard
ToTBellHop
Well-Known Member
Originally posted by MrPromey
You were the person that used trees as an example of theme right? Maybe landscaping counts as a theme in your book but if that’s the case, I have a pretty well themed front yard
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: This thread really cracks me up...I think we have some Universal employees on the boards!
Yes, I can defiantly make out the difference between those two cars from your pictures. One is yellow and has a more aerodynamic front section. The other is green and boxier, much more custom looking to me.
Let’s not get into the theme of the queue area here, granted, your pictures show something a little better than my memory serves me for the queue area (which I will happily fess up to since I asked for specific theme elements – which you have provided). I wouldn’t really call it a building though it’s an open aired shelter and while I have seem better themed in lesser parks I’ll leave that alone for the moment because I spent a good part of a long post a few posts back reminding you that theme elements in a queue mean nothing if they aren’t carried along the ride. As I said before, if the queue line made up the theme of the entire ride, DD would be one of the best themed attractions I’ve ever seen – unfortunately, the ride part is still there to totally kill that. Like your friend, you seem to be reading selectively since what I asked for was theme on the ride itself. The story means little, come on, it’s forgotten as soon as the cars start to move with speed through the tunnel and if you want to call a tunnel, a theme element than there are a LOT of parks around the world that probably don’t even realize their coasters have themes to them. True, if memory serves me, this one has a flashing siren light but… Ok, if you want to call that a theme element, I’ll give it to you…
Now everything else you mention, in what way dose this progress the theme of the ride? Are the green cars supposed to be the hulk? In the cartoon in line we see the army, is that what the mist and tunnel are about? What does skimming the water have to do with trying to get rid of the Hulk? And last but not least, since we end up back where we started off, does that mean that 30 or 40 more people are going to get on the hulk’s back and try it again.
It’s funny how you have tried a few times to bring Disney into this when my part has made little to no mention of it but since you insist there are a few things I can point out right off the bat. First, the cars have onboard sound. When they come around the corner all of the speakers inside the cars are playing an engine sound) They had a famous LA D.J. do “radio” voiceovers for the launch and although the visual theme elements on the ride may not be the most detailed (Disney learned with Space Mountain in DLP how little people can see when moving quickly through dark areas) I find think you would be more than a little hard pressed to find anything along the track besides maybe the posters at the end that is made from cardboard cutouts (although your attempt at depreciating the ride even further by calling them that rather than two dimensional or flat – like they are – is well noted) We also have the fact that this ride is totally indoors so that it is always nighttime when you are on your way to the “concert” and the whole way, you have music from the “concert” playing in your ears on the “radio” all the way up to the point that the music moves to a special track if the car has to be stopped mid way through the ride. Having this ride inside (expensive and adding some restrictions on the track design) also keeps the ride from interfering with it’s surroundings (the building that you launch into when the ride starts is made up to look like a sound stage where visible – which is more outside the park than in thanks to the height balloons they launched to determine this kind of thing before ground was even broken). Being indoors also has the marked advantage of hiding elements like a 1930’s Sunset Blvd. and Tower of Terror which would have clashed with the more modern theme of the ride from viewers’ eyes. Another big point is that when it’s over, you’ve actually gone somewhere. You don’t go back to the same station to get off on the opposite side of where you got on. You pull into an entirely different station that is totally out of view of the first one and get off onto the red carpet – much different from the parking garage and alleyway you start off in.
As I have tried to do a few times, let’s put away Disney for a moment. Let’s not look at Disney’s standards at all. Does the Hulk meet the standards that Universal themselves created for the park right next to IOA? Does IOA manage to carry it’s themes as well as Universal Studios? True, Universal Studios is an older park, the rides may not as new and they may not take care of things as well as they should (like the increasingly rougher ride you get on BTTF as years go by, beat up gorilla with now visible seams that attacks you at the end of Kong) but it’s obvious that Universal Tried a lot harder in designing and maintaining themes in this park than they did in IOA…. And what’s to say that when the glamour of IOA wears off, that it won’t start to look tired and a little unkept like parts of US?...
Seriously, I think the problem in terms of theme in regards to the coasters at IOA is this: When they designed BTF, I seriously doubt they sat down and said, we have this really cool never before used, simulator that will seat six people and will use an IMAX screen for the visual effects – what theme can we give it? I don’t think they said, let’s make a water ride where people get into a boat and see some stuff and have a few near misses of some sort – what theme would go good with this type of ride? It’s pretty obvious that they started with a theme and maybe a rough idea of what kind of a ride they wanted and then had the ride built around that theme and idea… On the contrary, do we honestly think that someone thought that the best way to represent the comic character of the Hulk was with an outdoor steel coaster? Come on! You see what they did with Spidy. Don’t you think a similar ride would have been better for the Hulk? We all know they sat down and said what can we do to put a theme around this coaster? They put some stuff in the station, and painted everything green and purple and with little more effort than that, called it a theme. As an amusement park ride, it’s top notch. In my opinion, it’s a great coaster but I am pained to see how it’s a theme park ride. Although I have objections with Jurassic Park River Adventure (mostly because it’s a common ride), they did at least go to the effort to theme it properly. To some degree, I can even give them credit for keeping most of the Dragons, out of the view of regular park goers who aren’t in line to ride them but with both the Hulk and Fear Fall, they adversely affect the theme of their surroundings and have shoddy theme elements of their own. If you like these rides more power to you. I don’t by any means dislike them as I have ridden them both more than a handful of times myself but they are hardly theme park attractions as presented and placed in the park. It’s because of things like this that I think IOA fails as an overall theme park. I asked before if anyone thought that it would be OK if Universal put a coaster over the center lagoon area of US and nobody ever replied. If you disagree, please say so but I think it would disrupt the theme of most of what else is in the park. It would wreak total havoc in the look of the park and Jaws would be a different experience if you could hear the sound of cars roaring in the distance with screams. I don’t know about great but by Orlando’s terms, IOA could have been a very good theme park if Universal had not chosen to go for cheap thrills. I say cheap because the cost of rides like Hulk and Dragons pails in comparison to rides like Back to the Future and Test Track. For the big coaster enthusiasts who really don’t care much about theme, the fact that the Hulk’s launch might still be unique could matter in a significant manner and the fact that the dragons are the only inverted dueling coasters on the world (right now) might matter, too but for the average park guest, there could be a ride exactly like the Hulk and DD on every continent in the world and it probably wouldn’t make much of a difference… Although they may be the only ride with their specific layout and with specific features (for the moment), they are steel coasters with very little more and that is not such an uncommon thing.
Sadly, it’s unlikely since most of the employees in the parks seem to care almost as little about their job as they seem to about the guests. I don’t say this as a crack or an insult, either. I don’t know what Universal is doing wrong but many of their employees have a lot to learn about customer service. I’m sure some are very nice and care a lot about their jobs but in many trips, I have yet to find more than one or two. Perhaps it’s just not a focus of their training?
Castle Cake Apologist
Well-Known Member
Amen! Like the lady in that god awful Jurassic Park center who very rudely told us that we needed to park our stollers outside because it was "cluttering other people's fun". (and I quote) This whole park cracks me up. Like that Triceratops thing. Who in hell devotes an entire attraction to looking at a robot? And then when they ask for volunteers to pet it (Why pet a robot??), they tell you ya gotta be as tall as the brown poles. That really set my little brother off after we had been telling him for weeks that he was gonna get to pet a dinosaur at this Islands of Misadventure place, and then he's like 3 feet too short. Oooh! and then when it sprayed water on the floor (Oh, I'm sorry.. I meant "p-e-e") and the "trainer" (can we say disgruntled employee?) goes to collect a specimen. What joyful bliss! PURE magic! But that whole p-e-e thing, I mean, that was it, we burst out laughing. Got us a few rude looks but still! IT WAS A FREAKIN ROBOT! My goodness, I hate that park.
Oh, but what about that styrofoam landing? (Err... Suess, riiight) WOWEE JEE WILLAKERS! A styrafoam land! What talent that must have taken to build. I built a castle out of styrofoam for school last year, does that mean I get to be an imagineer now? Sheesh I'm sorry, but this whole Islands of Adventure joke is nothing but a very hard pressed attempt to feed even more off of Disney's sucess, and I must tell you... they didn't suceedMarried@WDW
Member
OK -- I'd like to go on record as first saying that I totally disagree with DisneyExpert on IoA. I think the place is awesome, if lacking in a few places, namely customer service.
But I do say Hulk would fit at a Six Flags park. Six Flags is doing more theming, at least out here on the East Coast. Have you been to Six Flags New England -- when you wait in line for Superman Ride of Steele you go through the Daily Planet. Not detailed like IoA's Spiderman, but still as good as Hulk. Same with Six Flags Great Adventure. Your line goes through the bad guys lair -- is the characters name Mr. Chill? -- on The Chiller. And while you may not like the Gotham theming, they've got that down too -- it might be creapy and dirty but it's still theming.
I wish I had pictures, but to tell you the truth, I don't think of Six Flags as a vacation so I don't usually take my camera.
But I do say Hulk would fit at a Six Flags park. Six Flags is doing more theming, at least out here on the East Coast. Have you been to Six Flags New England -- when you wait in line for Superman Ride of Steele you go through the Daily Planet. Not detailed like IoA's Spiderman, but still as good as Hulk. Same with Six Flags Great Adventure. Your line goes through the bad guys lair -- is the characters name Mr. Chill? -- on The Chiller. And while you may not like the Gotham theming, they've got that down too -- it might be creapy and dirty but it's still theming.
I wish I had pictures, but to tell you the truth, I don't think of Six Flags as a vacation so I don't usually take my camera.
Rider
Well-Known Member
Originally posted by DisneyExpert
Amen! Like the lady in that god awful Jurassic Park center who very rudely told us that we needed to park our stollers outside because it was "cluttering other people's fun". (and I quote) This whole park cracks me up. Like that Triceratops thing. Who in hell devotes an entire attraction to looking at a robot? And then when they ask for volunteers to pet it (Why pet a robot??), they tell you ya gotta be as tall as the brown poles. That really set my little brother off after we had been telling him for weeks that he was gonna get to pet a dinosaur at this Islands of Misadventure place, and then he's like 3 feet too short. Oooh! and then when it sprayed water on the floor (Oh, I'm sorry.. I meant "p-e-e") and the "trainer" (can we say disgruntled employee?) goes to collect a specimen. What joyful bliss! PURE magic! But that whole p-e-e thing, I mean, that was it, we burst out laughing. Got us a few rude looks but still! IT WAS A FREAKIN ROBOT! God, I hate that park.
See my response in the other topic you created.
If you can find a more realistic animatronic in the world then you have too much time, because there is none. Not even Mr. Lincoln who just does a speach.
As for Suess, jeeezzz.... Im sorry but can you do anything close to what they did there? Im sure YOUR castle was two stories tall, a perment structure, colored and modled after famous books very nicely.
Rider
Well-Known Member
Originally posted by MrPromey
Gee, you mean the other ones I pointed out look cheap? Really? You think so? That’s funny because although they look more like cartoon dragons (and lets face it, these are rides for kids) their cars look just as much like what they are meant to represent as DD’s do. They are both fiberglass shells. And the kiddy coasters devote more of the car space to the “theme” than would be possible on DD.
As for the Hulk having custom cars, those feel like the exact same pads that knock my head around on Kumba and Montu. I may be mistaken but the only thing that seems custom about those cars is maybe, the fiberglass frame. I’m pretty sure they are standard vehicles in the sense that most B&M’s are at least a little bit custom.
What I was pointing out with Medusa ( “sigh”) was the fact that it had a very, very similar paint job and that from the ground, its layout doesn’t really look any less themed than Hulk’s. Here we go with that selective reading again… You were the person that used trees as an example of theme right? Maybe landscaping counts as a theme in your book but if that’s the case, I have a pretty well themed front yard
Every park in the world uses standard parts for all coasters (depeding on Manufact.). Its just what they put on it is what makes them different. The most custom B&M gets normally is putting a logo on the front.
O no!!! Space Mountian and RnRC have the same color track too!! As you said before people can't see much when zipping by (yes yes you said in the dark but it holds true to light too). So adding a lot of theme where you go by at 50 MPH seems stupid.
Also I would like to take issue with the castle (speciflicly Ice Dragon almost hitting it) not being themed to you. Then what is theme? If that dosent count then nothing should. Its not landscaping, its something they added to add more effect to the ride. Plus it give the theme durring the ride that you seem to want to much.
What you can accept is revolution. You cant accept that theme parks can be built like IOA was. You think everything has to stay hidden to be good. No they can't build a coaster in the middle of US, it wasn't designed to be that. But IOA was designed to be that, and being one of the most visted parks in the world I'd say its working fine.
Luau Cove
New Member
I love Disney light years away from what I care about Universal, but I'm being fair. That's why in any of the posts I compare Disney with Universal or belittle Disney, at all. I'm just defending Universal, because everytime I visit it it's a guaranteed day of fun, and I dare to say that after Disney Parks (not included Animal Kingdom) Universal's are the best in all aspects.
I, being someone who luckily got to see many amusement parks and theme parks throughout the world, have the experience to say that apart from Disney, I've seen no better theming than Universal Studios. So, let's not compare Universal with Disney, compare Universal with the rest of the parks, and you'll see what I'm talking about. Universal did so well his job, that in some attractions they beat the creators of theming, their masters.
To me, it's illogical to say Universal is no good at theming their rides or lands, specially in Islands where each land seems to be a different island, even different parks,indeed.
Try to be fair.
-->Luau
Married@WDW
Member
I don't think anyone is really saying Universal is "no good at theming their rides." This disagreement was mostly about the Hulk, though some people did bring in DD. The Hulk could have been done much better, and to me the lac of theming on Hulk is a let down compared to the rest of the park. I think Universal did a tremendous job, especially BECAUSE they knew they would be compared to their Disney neighbor.
goofyguy
Member
Rider,
I think one problem with the argument you’re making it that you don’t seem to have a clear idea of what a “theme” is. I will admit that I’ve never ridden Hulk, so I won’t even try to make the argument that it isn’t themed well, but all the things you’ve mentioned as “theming” are simply elements of the ride. A theme is an element that contributes to the basic storyline. Getting away from attractions for a moment, let’s say the theme of “Romeo and Juliet” is forbidden love (we can debate whether that’s true in a different thread). If someone asks you to prove this, you wouldn’t say, “Well look at the punctuation. It’s obvious from that question mark that forbidden love is the theme. Punctuation is an element used to build a story, and (in general) not an element of theming. So, I guess what I’m trying to say here is that water cannons, trees, and near misses on a coaster do not really count as theming.
I don’t presume to speak for MrPromey, but I think you might be able to make a case if you we’re to tell him what elements of Hulk, after you leave the station, contribute to the story.
I think one problem with the argument you’re making it that you don’t seem to have a clear idea of what a “theme” is. I will admit that I’ve never ridden Hulk, so I won’t even try to make the argument that it isn’t themed well, but all the things you’ve mentioned as “theming” are simply elements of the ride. A theme is an element that contributes to the basic storyline. Getting away from attractions for a moment, let’s say the theme of “Romeo and Juliet” is forbidden love (we can debate whether that’s true in a different thread). If someone asks you to prove this, you wouldn’t say, “Well look at the punctuation. It’s obvious from that question mark that forbidden love is the theme. Punctuation is an element used to build a story, and (in general) not an element of theming. So, I guess what I’m trying to say here is that water cannons, trees, and near misses on a coaster do not really count as theming.
I don’t presume to speak for MrPromey, but I think you might be able to make a case if you we’re to tell him what elements of Hulk, after you leave the station, contribute to the story.
Castle Cake Apologist
Well-Known Member
Ok, everyone... I'd like to appologize. I came off a little too... harsh. Look at the time I posted it. It was late, I was tired. I think universal did an amazing job theming that place, but something is missing in the theming when you can see a bare lime green hunk of metal (Hulk) while you're in Jurassic Park, that detracts from it all and you don't feel like you're actually there. (In Jurassic Park that is) and our overall experience there has made us decide never to return.