connect the Animal Kingdom by monorail

[POLY LOVER]

It was cheaper then! Only two parks instead of four. Equipment was new and maintenance was less costly. There was a need and a demand to connect the two that no longer exists. (at the time all tickets were park hoppers, no single park tickets) They didn't have the intricate bus system that exists now (pretty much all that existed were the Monorail resorts) It fit in, at the time, with the futuristic theme of EPCOT Ctr.

At the time, just about everyone went through TTC to get to MK. There were no direct buses to the resorts, there weren't that many other places on property where other people even stayed. (the other places that were considered on property were over by DtD and the golf resort areas. The campground was connected via boat. People that came in to the parks either parked at TTC to travel between MK and EPCOT or they parked at EPCOT and hopped to MK. It was one or the other. The turning point was probably when they got the bill to build the line from MK to EPCOT. That probably screamed about the rising cost of doing that form of transportation and the decision was made back then to just not go any further. They discussed it a few times since then, but, still haven't been able to seriously consider it.

let me point out that at that time Disney was in big trouble with the EPCOT property, thats why you have the Swan and Dolphin not Disney property. Also it was not cheaper, the interest rates at that time soared and it was expensive to build and finance construction projects. The economy basically was in deep trouble. If there was ever a time to scale back a project and not do a monorail expansion they had all of the reasons at that time.
This is a great time to finance construction with rates as low as I have ever seen them in my adult life. Money is cheap right now, if you are going to construct this would be the time to do it.
WIKI------------------------
By 1979, inflation reached a startling 11.3% and in 1980 soared to 13.5%.[2][12]
A brief recession occurred in 1980. Several key industries including housing, steel manufacturing and automobiles experienced a downturn from which they did not recover through the end of the next recession. Many of the economic sectors that supplied these basic industries were also hard-hit.[13] Each period of high unemployment was caused by the Federal Reserve, as it substantially increased interest rates to reduce high inflation; each time, once inflation fell and interest rates were lowered, unemployment slowly fell.[14]

Determined to wring inflation out of the economy, Federal Reserve chairman Paul Volcker slowed the rate of growth of the money supply and raised interest rates. The federal funds rate, which was about 11% in 1979, rose to 20% by June 1981. The prime interest rate, a highly important economic measure, eventually reached 21.5% in June 1982.[4][15]

 

[POLY LOVER]

He keeps asking questions....are people not supposed to respond?

no I answer their questions, if they are not willing to discuss this there are many other places to go. Is this an exclusive board for just some posters.

 

[alissafalco]

Problem solved!

LOLOL

 

[Master Yoda]

let me point out that at that time Disney was in big trouble with the EPCOT property. ,also it was not cheaper, the interest rates at that time soared and it was expensive to build and finance a construction projects. The economy basically was in deep trouble. If there was ever a time to scale back a project and not do a monorail expansion they had all of the reasons at that time.
This is a great time to finance construction with rates as low as I have ever seen them in my adult life. Money is cheap right now, if you are going to construct this would be the time to do it.
WIKI------------------------
By 1979, inflation reached a startling 11.3% and in 1980 soared to 13.5%.[2][12]
A brief recession occurred in 1980. Several key industries including housing, steel manufacturing and automobiles experienced a downturn from which they did not recover through the end of the next recession. Many of the economic sectors that supplied these basic industries were also hard-hit.[13] Each period of high unemployment was caused by the Federal Reserve, as it substantially increased interest rates to reduce high inflation; each time, once inflation fell and interest rates were lowered, unemployment slowly fell.[14]

Determined to wring inflation out of the economy, Federal Reserve chairman Paul Volcker slowed the rate of growth of the money supply and raised interest rates. The federal funds rate, which was about 11% in 1979, rose to 20% by June 1981. The prime interest rate, a highly important economic measure, eventually reached 21.5% in June 1982.[4][15]

Inflation is not the problem. Building materials like steel, concrete, lumber, etc are rarely tied to inflation. They are traded like commodities and can vary in price, both up and down, wildly independent from inflation.

The downturn in demand you sited would result in the price of steel and concrete dropping in price in 1980.

All that aside, the most often used figure for the cost of the monorail line from the TTC to Epcot was $1 million per mile. If we adjust that $1 million for inflation you end up with about $2.9 million in 2015 dollars. Even the most conservative estimates put monorail construction per mile at more than 10 times that number.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

can I ask, with all the explaination about why the monorail should not be or will not be expanded to AK. Why were these reasons not valid when they expanded it to EPCOT. Why did it ever get expanded there if it was not cost effective etc.

When Epcot opened, there were two hotels and two parks. It's extremely easy to link two hotels and two parks by monorail. Today, there are four parks, two water parks, and nineteen owned-and-operated hotels. You don't see the logistical difference, even if cost was equal?

 

[Tony the Tigger]

He keeps asking questions....are people not supposed to respond?

Seriously?

It's a lot easier to not respond than to respond in a condescending and rude manner.

Do I need to teach you how to unwatch a thread?

If you think a discussion is not worth having, it's bizarre to contribute to the discussion and then complain about that discussion.

Let the people who are interested in the discussion have the discussion. The discussion has zero consequence since none of us are in charge of Disney transportation.

If people want to fantasize about a place that is the ultimate in fantasy, let them. If you think it's not realistic, don't participate.

But nobody should be talking to other people like they are stupid idiots who don't understand the grand scheme of Disney or money or whatever. With some exceptions, none of your opinions are more heavily weighted than any other WDW guests' opinions.

 

[wm49rs]

Seriously?

It's a lot easier to not respond than to respond in a condescending and rude manner.

Do I need to teach you how to unwatch a thread?

If you think a discussion is not worth having, it's bizarre to contribute to the discussion and then complain about that discussion.

Let the people who are interested in the discussion have the discussion. The discussion has zero consequence since none of us are in charge of Disney transportation.

If people want to fantasize about a place that is the ultimate in fantasy, let them. If you think it's not realistic, don't participate.

But nobody should be talking to other people like they are stupid idiots who don't understand the grand scheme of Disney or money or whatever. With some exceptions, none of your opinions are more heavily weighted than any other WDW guests' opinions.

The flip side being perhaps when someone is given the same information over and over again they don't keep making the same arguments.

And the last I checked, this is an open forum....

 

[CaptainAmerica]

The flip side being perhaps when someone is given the same information over and over again they don't keep making the same arguments.

Yeah but Starbucks really really doesn't belong at the MSB.

 

[wm49rs]

Yeah but Starbucks really really doesn't belong at the MSB.

Well, as long as there's fresh-baked cinnamon rolls....

 

[Bob]

Well, as long as there's fresh-baked cinnamon rolls....

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Disney Springs
DHS Toy Story Land
DHS TSMM 3rd track
DHS Star Wars Land
DHS (Phase 3)
DHS (Phase 4)
DHS Parking garages
AK River's of Light
AK Pandora
MK New Fantasyland
MK Hub expansion
MK Skipper Canteen
MK Bypass



Yeah. They aren't doing anything are they?

You also left a lot of infrastructure projects, such as the walkways over the roads at Disney Springs, the widening of Buena Vista Drive to ten lanes, with dedicated bus lanes, the complete redo of the speedway and MK parking area, and quite a few other road and infrastructure projects that cost literally millions of dollars to finish. They need them for future expansions, but they are not "pretty" or rides, but they do cost the company a bundle. Of course, they could do away with a lot of it by not allowing any personal vehicles on Disney property. Put up some huge parking garages at the entrances, and bus people everywhere. Wouldn't that be wonderful!

 

[Ralphlaw]

OK, lets just shut down the monorails they are a useless, expensive , dangerous form of transportation. You can argue this forever but I'm just trying to say that expanding to the AK would be great for guests.

Taking another person's view to an extreme is not the way to convince anyone. It's like if I were to assert, "Serious repeat criminals should be given prison sentences" and you then twisting that statement to say "You think everyone with 2 speeding tickets should get the death penalty." That interpretation is absurd.

Similarly, NOBODY says the monorails should be shut down. They're fun. They serve a purpose. Twisting the statement just makes you appear out of control and ignorant (which I assume you are not).

With that being said, it indeed would be nice if somehow an alternate transportation mode could be used to go to/from AK other than busses. Unfortunately, this would require canal digging or some type of rail line going over or under some pretty busy existing roadways. A walkway would be fun, but would people really use it before/after walking around the park all day?

So here's my idea: BIKE PATHS. Bike paths, with tunnels under roads or light bridges over roads, might be doable. They also promote fitness and green environmentalism. Each resort could have a bunch, either free or for a small fee. Some system of pick up and dropoff would be nice, and obviously there may need to be a bunch of people manning the bike centers at each park and resort, doing maintenance, etc . . . ala storllers. We own at the Boardwalk, and I would gladly pay a per day charge to bike all over WDW. I assume I'm not alone in this. The downside: Up front expense, moving the bikes around at night from the parks to the resorts (after a long day or during rain, people may opt for the bus, thus leaving their bikes at the park), weather issues, etc . . . Also, what about injuries or gator attacks in relatively isolated pathways? In my opinion, bikes will be the way to go. Many cities already do this, especially in Europe, and it works. Plus, compared to new monorails, it's much cheaper. Disney could also sub-contract the whole thing out to Schwinn or Trek as the "Official Bike of Walt Disney World."

 

[French Quarter]

Schoolyard is how this place gets sometimes, you have to roll with it.
As far as bullying, I don't participate, nor do I like it. If you thought I was bullying, there must be a misinterpretation of my previous posts.
Apology accepted and let us move on from this.

I wasn't meaning you specifically...no. Onwards and upwards...

 

[French Quarter]

Then that was possibly your fault since there are many roads to choose from with which to get around an accident. Only very rarely have I seen accidents that shut down a road and do not allow for people to turn around and/or take another road to bypass the accident. Try that on a monorail.

I don't necessarily disagree with your comments about monorails but...Are you serious? You have rarely seen motor vehicle accidents tie up traffic? Do you travel a lot of highways? I do a lot of driving and I get stuck in traffic jams all the time due to accidents and there's nowhere to go.

 

[French Quarter]

let me point out that at that time Disney was in big trouble with the EPCOT property, thats why you have the Swan and Dolphin not Disney property. Also it was not cheaper, the interest rates at that time soared and it was expensive to build and finance construction projects. The economy basically was in deep trouble. If there was ever a time to scale back a project and not do a monorail expansion they had all of the reasons at that time.
This is a great time to finance construction with rates as low as I have ever seen them in my adult life. Money is cheap right now, if you are going to construct this would be the time to do it.
WIKI------------------------
By 1979, inflation reached a startling 11.3% and in 1980 soared to 13.5%.[2][12]
A brief recession occurred in 1980. Several key industries including housing, steel manufacturing and automobiles experienced a downturn from which they did not recover through the end of the next recession. Many of the economic sectors that supplied these basic industries were also hard-hit.[13] Each period of high unemployment was caused by the Federal Reserve, as it substantially increased interest rates to reduce high inflation; each time, once inflation fell and interest rates were lowered, unemployment slowly fell.[14]

Determined to wring inflation out of the economy, Federal Reserve chairman Paul Volcker slowed the rate of growth of the money supply and raised interest rates. The federal funds rate, which was about 11% in 1979, rose to 20% by June 1981. The prime interest rate, a highly important economic measure, eventually reached 21.5% in June 1982.[4][15]

Completely OT but did you add footnotes to your post? I see your references but you failed to include the sources.

 

[French Quarter]

I think this is the first thread I've been involved with where I disagree with everyone. You are all big sillies!

Monorail not going to happen.
Alternative transportation to AK good idea.
Should be allowed to discuss it and haters should wander off.

There you go.

 

[G00fyDad]

I don't necessarily disagree with your comments about monorails but...Are you serious? You have rarely seen motor vehicle accidents tie up traffic? Do you travel a lot of highways? I do a lot of driving and I get stuck in traffic jams all the time due to accidents and there's nowhere to go.

Not trying to argue here, but read my post again. I said that I have rarely seen an accident tie up traffic so bad that people could not get out of it for hours. I do understand that traffic exists. Yes. However, Polly's comment (as are ALL of his other comments) are directed toward one thing: over-generalizations that only have one purpose, to drive arguments. He is deliberately vague and obtuse in order to drive that argument. For example, I made a comment to him that Disney is building many things right now in response to his "Disney is stagnant" post and he turns it around and asks for proof since they have not released names of rides. Yeah. It boggles the mind.

 

[Master Yoda]

Taking another person's view to an extreme is not the way to convince anyone. It's like if I were to assert, "Serious repeat criminals should be given prison sentences" and you then twisting that statement to say "You think everyone with 2 speeding tickets should get the death penalty." That interpretation is absurd.

Similarly, NOBODY says the monorails should be shut down. They're fun. They serve a purpose. Twisting the statement just makes you appear out of control and ignorant (which I assume you are not).

With that being said, it indeed would be nice if somehow an alternate transportation mode could be used to go to/from AK other than busses. Unfortunately, this would require canal digging or some type of rail line going over or under some pretty busy existing roadways. A walkway would be fun, but would people really use it before/after walking around the park all day?

So here's my idea: BIKE PATHS. Bike paths, with tunnels under roads or light bridges over roads, might be doable. They also promote fitness and green environmentalism. Each resort could have a bunch, either free or for a small fee. Some system of pick up and dropoff would be nice, and obviously there may need to be a bunch of people manning the bike centers at each park and resort, doing maintenance, etc . . . ala storllers. We own at the Boardwalk, and I would gladly pay a per day charge to bike all over WDW. I assume I'm not alone in this. The downside: Up front expense, moving the bikes around at night from the parks to the resorts (after a long day or during rain, people may opt for the bus, thus leaving their bikes at the park), weather issues, etc . . . Also, what about injuries or gator attacks in relatively isolated pathways? In my opinion, bikes will be the way to go. Many cities already do this, especially in Europe, and it works. Plus, compared to new monorails, it's much cheaper. Disney could also sub-contract the whole thing out to Schwinn or Trek as the "Official Bike of Walt Disney World."

The big problem with bikes is usage, or rather under usage. I think they would appeal to small portion of the 20-30 with no kids crowd and that is about it. That is a rather small demo for WDW.

The second you start throwing toddlers, strollers, etc in the mix bikes become very impractical.

Also it only takes one person in the family to not want to or not able to ride ride, and the entire family becomes a no go. I love biking. I have about $3k invested between mine and my daughters mountain bikes. My wife on the other hand would sooner crawl on her hands and knees to the parks than ride 50' on a bike.

Then there is the shear distance. Even shortened routes between MK and Epcot and Epcot and AK come in at around 5-6 miles one way. A trip from the All stars to MK would be around 8-9 miles. I just don't see 7 year old Jimmy biking 8 miles to MK at 7 in the morning.

Now bikes between The Epcot resorts, Epcot and DHS as well as between the monorail resorts and MK could work well.

 

[Tom P.]

Not sure what you mean by meaningful. What it will take is something that will get the families with young kids to want to go somewhere other than the MK OR sink a ton of money into really expanding the MK as much as possible. Realistically, the other three parks are not that child friendly. They don't have the castle and all the nostalgia and sentimentality of the MK. I'm not sure there will ever be an answer for that.

I actually find Hollywood Studios to be extremely child friendly, second only to Magic Kingdom in fact. The problem with Hollywood Studios is the limited number of attractions that they have at the moment. But what they do have is extremely appealing to kids. Think of the Disney Junior stuff (character dining, the live stage show, etc.), the Muppets, Toy Story, Beauty and the Beast, etc. My kids love a lot at that park.

 

[Ralphlaw]

The big problem with bikes is usage, or rather under usage. I think they would appeal to small portion of the 20-30 with no kids crowd and that is about it. That is a rather small demo for WDW.

The second you start throwing toddlers, strollers, etc in the mix bikes become very impractical.

Also it only takes one person in the family to not want to or not able to ride ride, and the entire family becomes a no go. I love biking. I have about $3k invested between mine and my daughters mountain bikes. My wife on the other hand would sooner crawl on her hands and knees to the parks than ride 50' on a bike.

Then there is the shear distance. Even shortened routes between MK and Epcot and Epcot and AK come in at around 5-6 miles one way. A trip from the All stars to MK would be around 8-9 miles. I just don't see 7 year old Jimmy biking 8 miles to MK at 7 in the morning.

Now bikes between The Epcot resorts, Epcot and DHS as well as between the monorail resorts and MK could work well.

Thanks for the nuts & bolts analysis. My family right now ranges from 50 years old down to 9, and I could see my wife and/or daughter not wanting to go 5+ miles each way. I still think it would be a great way to relieve some population from the parks and provide a nice alternative to bussing all over. I could also see scenic overlooks, refreshment stops that are only available on the trails, maybe even places along the way where you could see the AK savannah from a distance, the pavilions of world Showcase, etc . . . I know next to nothing about the total layout of WDW, especially the behind the scenes areas, but a network of trails for biking and walking could be a great addition to a vacation, breaking up the hubbub from the parks, promoting fitness, and even being a green initiative.

You're right, though, not everyone is a biker, and usage may indeed be slight. Burleys and tag-alongs could help with the little ones, but indeed a bus ride is so much easier. I've known for 2 years that I can rent a bike at my home resort, the Boardwalk, but haven't yet gotten around to it, due in large part to the fact that I don't even know where they'll let me go with it. Oh well. Maybe next time.