Congress Questions Next Gen

[ParentsOf4]

I completely agree. Facebook's entire focus is getting you to provide them marketing data to sell to other companies for marketing.

Facebook is free.

All Disney has to do is provide free theme park admission and they can collect all the information they want from any adult who wants to participate.

 

[Lord_Vader]

Doesn't matter.. collecting it is the problem... They cannot, as per COPPA, collect the data... Doesn't matter if they let it expire or what not...

Actually, they may already possibly be in violation of it.. I just checked back to a few previously completed vacations I booked for friends... The name of their child had to be given (first and last) as well as their age, along with address, phone number... One should be able to surmise that the child lives with the parents, therefore that address is that of the child... Maybe there is an exemption because you are making hotel reservations? I don't know... I'm not a lawyer nor will I pretend to play one on WDWMagic... But, if this information is not allowed to be collected, then I guess technically, they are in the wrong already... More than likely all hotels and airlines are in violation...

I am sure that the USA PATRIOT act took care of this for you, that way the GOV'T can keep track.

 

[Lord_Vader]

Don't even think about the bracelets, the app you will be forced to use tracks you via your phone... So the tacking ability is there whether people want to believe it or not...

Yes it is, the GPS comes on everytime it loads so it can check your location to enable "special park access."

 

[flynnibus]

Don't be silly. Congressman Markey knows a national story when he sees one, and Kings Island isn't known beyond the Rust Belt. Disney is the big whale, and if Markey can get Bob Iger to kneel before his committee and explain under oath how his private company works and why it should be allowed to continue, then Markey's next election is a cake walk.

Markey has been in congress for 35 years and runs unopposed from republicans because its freaking Massachussets - he doesn't need election stunts..

 

[Lord_Vader]

to opt out means to not use the app. which means you may be able to get a fp, if you wait in line at the kiosk. I have read the guidelines n the app.. it's pretty much saying carte blanche they may data mine your kids. and contact them, etc. I don't see many kids these days (mine being a weird exception) over the age of 8 without their own cell phone. By using the "my disney experience" app, you have given them permission to use your child's (and anyone "connected" to your account through reservations) permission. They may directly contact your kids, through any tech they have.
So, exactly how well will fp+ work for you if you choose not to use the app? probably pretty crappy, excuse my french...
in other words, fp+=app and web use= permission for all children attached to your reservations.
I don't see this as something very difficult to understand.
My kids are weird. No cell phones, no permission to use websites or apps without my direct knowledge.
In NJ, I assure you, we are freaks. Most kids of families within means have cell phones early on.

But they cannot contact my children if they don't have their mobile telephone numbers or email addresses because they are not included in my reservation(s).

BTW, they already data mine your children when you visit.

 

[Lord_Vader]

Mickey doesnt speak.( in the parks.....just saying....It is my understanding that face characters are the only ones allowed to speak....so this characters calling your name thing- not a big deal...

They have been testing an articulated Mickey Mouse character that does speak.

 

[Lord_Vader]

That's a good question, that a lot of people are asking. I'm not sure that anybody outside of Disney really knows the answer, but, the short answer is that it involves a lot of different pieces, much of it is new uses for existing technology that Disney is seeking patents for. Also, there is a lot of network technology being implemented as well as software development to support the new technologies. All new turnstyles for all the parks, door locks, readers at the rides and in stores and restaurants, plus a major upgrade to the wireless and wired network infrastructure at WDW. Needless to say, the scope of the project is huge, and not entirely known by outsiders.

A single large core router can cost over $500,000 each to push large amounts of data. It would not take too many of these, the expertise to administer them and the software talent to create the code for all the back office systems to create the input points to add up very quickly.

 

[flynnibus]

Any how. ROTFLMAO. IT's just an amusement park, come on does Congress actually have to get involved.

Come on.. he's one of the extreme liberal democrats that think the government should regulate anything that someone makes noise about.. of course they think they need to be involved.

 

[Lord_Vader]

Facebook is free.

All Disney has to do is provide free theme park admission and they can collect all the information they want from any adult who wants to participate.

Personally, Facebook comes at the cost of my privacy and is WAY too expensive.

 

[ParentsOf4]

I am sure that the USA PATRIOT act took care of this for you, that way the GOV'T can keep track.

You mean act in which the Federal courts ruled several sections as unconstitutional and President Obama let other sections expire in 2011? The act that was amended to give greater judicial oversight? The act that was largely directed towards high-risk non-U.S. citizens visiting the United States? That act?

Our Federal government has checks-and-balances to prevent it from overreaching. Although slow, these mechanisms tend to eventually work. What exactly are the checks-and-balances to prevent private corporations from overreaching and collecting whatever information they want?

 

[TP2000]

Markey has been in congress for 35 years and runs unopposed from republicans because its freaking Massachussets - he doesn't need election stunts..

I lived in Massachusetts for a chunk of the late 20th century and remember the Markey name, even though I lived in a different district. He's a career New England Democrat sent straight from central casting, if there ever was one.

Ed Markey has also been stuck in the House of Representatives for his entire career, because a Kennedy or a bigger name like John Kerry kept hogging the Senate seats. Kerry is unexpectedly off to be Secretary of State and that Senate seat, warmed for decades by a Kennedy, is suddenly vacant and needs to be appointed by the Governor. Markey isn't a fool, and knows he needs a big media push to be a relevant replacement for the newly vacant Senate seat. I wish him luck.

 

[flynnibus]

Ed Markey has also been stuck in the House of Representatives for his entire career, because a Kennedy or a bigger name like John Kerry kept hogging the Senate seats. Kerry is unexpectedly off to be Secretary of State and that Senate seat, warmed for decades by a Kennedy, is suddenly vacant and needs to be appointed by the Governor. Markey isn't a fool, and knows he needs a big media push to be a relevant replacement for the newly vacant Senate seat. I wish him luck.

It's a nice story - but inconsistent with Markey's behavior. He's already been on this privacy hunt for awhile.. including going after the data broker's last summer - well before signs Kerry might get a cabinet seat. Fresh off the COPPA amendments.. news of one of the nation's highest profile companies diving head first into fresh data profiling is like a ball on a tee to Markey and rolls right into his recent activities.

And let's not forget.. this is still just a congressman acting on his own.. well with the guise of his privacy caucus too.. but this isn't 'congressional hearings' with supeonas or anything. Disney isn't even obligated to reply to the guy.. but obviously they will in a well formulated response.

 

[TP2000]

It's a nice story - but inconsistent with Markey's behavior. He's already been on this privacy hunt for awhile.. including going after the data broker's last summer - well before signs Kerry might get a cabinet seat. Fresh off the COPPA amendments.. news of one of the nation's highest profile companies diving head first into fresh data profiling is like a ball on a tee to Markey and rolls right into his recent activities.

That's his gig. And it's always for "the children". Every congressman needs a gig and a committee to busy themselves with to look good for the voters. It helps if you can loop in "the children". Internet privacy is Markey's current gig.

When I lived in Massachusetts his gig was taking on what was left of the Bell System and breaking up telecom monopolies. Or maybe he was for restoring the Bell System? I forget. But he's now landed at Internet privacy. For "the children", of course.

We'll have to see who gets Kerry's Senate seat. I bet that's a hot spectator sport in Boston this winter.

 

[Hakunamatata]

That's his gig. And it's always for "the children". Every congressman needs a gig and a committee to busy themselves with to look good for the voters. It helps if you can loop in "the children". Internet privacy is Markey's current gig.

When I lived in Massachusetts his gig was taking on what was left of the Bell System and breaking up telecom monopolies. Or maybe he was for restoring the Bell System? I forget. But he's now landed at Internet privacy. For "the children", of course.

We'll have to see who gets Kerry's Senate seat. I bet that's a hot spectator sport in Boston this winter.

I love how it's all about the children's safety, well except for the gross amount of debt we are leaving the little chillins....that's ok.

 

[Captain Chaos]

Is it just me or are people suddenly active at the same time Disney's NextGen program is questioned by a Congressman, leading to negative press (and yes, there is negative press no matter what defender of the mouse want to say or believe)??? Gee, Disney must be in defense mode.. Wonder why? LoL.

 

[rsoxguy]

We'll have to see who gets Kerry's Senate seat. I bet that's a hot spectator sport in Boston this winter.

Judging by the pace of Red Sox ticket sales thus far, and last season's NESN ratings, it will be the only spectator sport in Boston.

 

[GrumpyFan]

Our Federal government has checks-and-balances to prevent it from overreaching. Although slow, these mechanisms tend to eventually work. What exactly are the checks-and-balances to prevent private corporations from overreaching and collecting whatever information they want?

In the U.S. it's the consumer, and making their voice heard with their pocketbook. Of course, the government likes to step in sometimes too, but in my opinion, that just tends to make matters worse, overly complicated, and sometimes costly to both the business and the consumer.

 

[GrumpyFan]

A single large core router can cost over $500,000 each to push large amounts of data. It would not take too many of these, the expertise to administer them and the software talent to create the code for all the back office systems to create the input points to add up very quickly.

Exactly! And, with the amount of integration this system will have with the core theme park experience, they better be building in redundancy and scalability, which would nearly double the cost of everything.

 

[ParentsOf4]

In the U.S. it's the consumer, and making their voice heard with their pocketbook. Of course, the government likes to step in sometimes too, but in my opinion, that just tends to make matters worse, overly complicated, and sometimes costly to both the business and the consumer.

Yes, I agree consumers can speak with their money but only if they have information. Corporations hide details from their customers, intentionally keeping things vague. Let's not forget it was corporations who used to tell us smoking was good for our health. How many millions died before the truth finally was revealed?

I've read the Disney Park Experience Terms and Conditions several times, consider myself one of NextGen's most informed pupils, and still don't understand what NextGen is truly trying to accomplish.

http://disneyworld.disney.go.com/media/park-experience-terms-and-conditions.html

Disney, like so many companies, buries information in multi-page Terms and Conditions statements. Even those statements contain tremendous gaps in information. I've contacted Disney several times about NextGen and received nothing back but vague replies.

It's this sort of corporate misinformation that the Fourth Estate normally involves itself in. Unfortunately, today's news media are run largely by some of these same companies trying to hide information from us. For example, Disney controls ABC. Do you think ABC will do an investigative piece on NextGen? As a result, few investigative reporters are allowed by their parent companies to actually investigate companies that are part of the brethren.

We need information in order to make informed decisions. It's why I've quoted Benjamin Franklin a couple of times when it comes to NextGen:

This will be the best security for maintaining our liberties. A nation of well-informed men who have been taught to know and prize the rights which God has given them cannot be enslaved. It is in the religion of ignorance that tyranny begins.

Disney is breaking new ground with NextGen. With MagicBands containing 2 passive RFID devices and an active transmitter, along with WDW's 30 million annual visitors, Disney is trying to do something that's never been attempted before on this scale. Disney is trying to monitor our actions to a degree that was impractical 10-to-20 years ago.

Our right to privacy (see Supreme Court rulings if you doubt one exists) is being invaded by a mega corporation. Disney certainly has some rights to collect information but where does it end? Where do our rights begin? Right now, we have few laws protecting us from corporate prying eyes and, for financial reasons, news conglomerates often don't want to get involved.

Rep. Markey's letter asks pertinent questions. If Disney responds fully and honestly, we should have the information needed to make informed decisions. If not, what happens after that? How many think Disney is going to answer the letter fully and honestly?

More than ever, Alex Carey's quote from several decades ago is relevant today:

The 20th century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: The growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.

 

[MissM]

The fact is right now, the entire NextGen concept is vague at best. The specific details of who, what, and how are confusing, half-truths and downright guessing. It's all speculation at this point. No one really knows what exactly Disney is going to do, how they're going to do it and what they're going to truly be using this collected information for. And most importantly, they're not talking. Disney does not want to give us the information openly, freely and simply. They count on the general unwillingness to question, or to just click the "accept" button without reading.

If, at the end of the day, the Congressman's inquiries result in Disney having to have transparency and give us actual, concrete information and specific details...why is that a bad thing?? For everyone who says they're "ok" with any of the possible scenarios, tracking, data mining, etc., wouldn't you like to know what it is exactly you're ok with? You cannot make informed or educated choices in life if you don't have the facts. Right now, we have NO facts and Disney isn't giving them up to us as individuals. Which is why we have elected officials that can step in on our behalf.

More information to make informed decisions is never a bad thing. I can't even fathom why anyone - if you like the NextGen ideas or not - would be against actually knowing the real details of this program