Congress Questions Next Gen

[unkadug]

Not a corporate plant

It's a rare plant indeed that would join a forum 11 years before necessary in order to defend a poor corporate decision.

My hat is off to you sir!

 

[njDizFan]

The naysayers and apparently, "non-corporate" types here, seem to want to bring up COPPA a lot, so let's just take a look at what it says instead of making a bunch of factless claims about it. I snapped the following from: http://www.coppa.org/comply.htm just in case anybody wants to go read it for themselves.

The Children's Online Privacy Protection Act and Rule apply to individually identifiable information about a child that is collected online, such as full name, home address, email address, telephone number or any other information that would allow someone to identify or contact the child. The Act and Rule also cover other types of information -- for example, hobbies, interests and information collected through cookies or other types of tracking mechanisms -- when they are tied to individually identifiable information.​

​

So, according to COPPA, the following individual information is considered off-limits:

• Child's full name
• Child's home address
• Child's telephone number
• Child's email address
• Any other information that would allow someone to identify or contact the child

Notice, I under-lined the full part of the name, which means it's perfectly acceptable to ask for and usethe child's first name, middle name, or even a nickname, just as long as they don't ask for and KEEP the full name or any other relevant information that would allow someone to contact or identify said child.


Did you notice that Birthday is NOT on that list? Which means, if they only collected the child's first name and birthday, they would still be within the bounds of the COPPA guidelines.

You should notice too, that there are allowed exceptions to this as well where they can collect more information and use it for certain means by which they could contact the child in the future, if they choose to do so:

The regulations include several exceptions that allow operators to collect a child's email address without getting the parent's consent in advance. These exceptions cover many popular online activities for kids, including contests , online newsletters , homework help and electronic postcards . ​

As I understand it, COPPA, for now, only applies to Online web site operators. However, I'm sure congressman Markey will be working on a new bill or revisions to this to spread it beyond that, which I'm okay with, really. But, keep in mind, none of this applies to any of what Disney has or is doing at the moment in regards to the MagicBand, NextGen or previous collection of personal information for children. Everything they have done in the past, and even everything I've seen that they plan to do in the future, should comply with this act that doesn't even apply to what they are doing.

Even IF COPPA were expanded to apply here, it's a pretty simple process for Disney to comply. All they would have to do is set up the databases to only store the allowed information, and even set it to expire on the guests last day, if the parents choose.

I would imagine if the child is part of the parents' current resevation with Disney they indeed would have full access to the child's full name, address and phone number. Also with the band on they would possibly have another way to identify( or locate) the child. So by complying and accepting the privacy waiver these could be the obsticles that Disney is facing with COPPA.

 

[GrumpyFan]

I would imagine if the child is part of the parents' current resevation with Disney they indeed would have full access to the child's full name, address and phone number. Also with the band on they would possibly have another way to identify( or locate) the child. So by complying and accepting the privacy waiver these could be the obsticles that Disney is facing with COPPA.

True, but like I said in my last paragraph, all they have to do is remove the specific pieces of information that would be in violation of such an act, or set it to expire or delete up expiration of the child's ticket.

 

[Monty]

Yes, you are right the data is the same, but the perception of the technology is different. With your KTTW card you know when you were using it so you know when Disney was "tracking you". I think the fear of the bracelet comes from the fact that it is always on and you don't know when it's being actively tracked. I think that different scares some people. I am not try to condemn nor defend the magic bands, just trying to show why some people might have a problem with them over what is being done now.

I don't question for a moment that people have a problem with it, my point is their problem is irrational. They should have had just as much problem with it before as now if the arguments currently being brought are to be believed.

Ultimately, IMO it comes down to "OMG! It's new! BURN IT WITH FIRE!", when in reality it's not new at all, just differently applied.

 

[Rose&Crowner]

Burn it with FIRE!

 

[Captain Chaos]

True, but like I said in my last paragraph, all they have to do is remove the specific pieces of information that would be in violation of such an act, or set it to expire or delete up expiration of the child's ticket.

Doesn't matter.. collecting it is the problem... They cannot, as per COPPA, collect the data... Doesn't matter if they let it expire or what not...

Actually, they may already possibly be in violation of it.. I just checked back to a few previously completed vacations I booked for friends... The name of their child had to be given (first and last) as well as their age, along with address, phone number... One should be able to surmise that the child lives with the parents, therefore that address is that of the child... Maybe there is an exemption because you are making hotel reservations? I don't know... I'm not a lawyer nor will I pretend to play one on WDWMagic... But, if this information is not allowed to be collected, then I guess technically, they are in the wrong already... More than likely all hotels and airlines are in violation...

 

[Monty]

Burn it with FIRE!

See? Told ya so!

 

[GrumpyFan]

For all who are worried about Disney "tracking" you or your child with the new MagicBand, let's just think about it for a second.

First, they wont actually have the ability to actively track you, it will be more like following where you've been. Sure, they will be able to locate you, if they really want to, but why would they? And, if they really wanted to "track" you, using your Apple or Android cellphone would be a much better way to do it via an app that would give them a lot more specific data on your exact whereabouts. So, for those that are worried about being tracked, you really should re-consider using or carrying a cell phone, because Google, Apple and any of the app providers that you've downloaded their apps has access to this information already, and I would be far more worried by some of those than I ever would Disney.

BTW: If you have or plan to use the MyDisneyExperience mobile app, they are already "tracking" you. This app has location awareness built-in!

 

[GrumpyFan]

Doesn't matter.. collecting it is the problem... They cannot, as per COPPA, collect the data... Doesn't matter if they let it expire or what not...

Actually, they may already possibly be in violation of it.. I just checked back to a few previously completed vacations I booked for friends... The name of their child had to be given (first and last) as well as their age, along with address, phone number... One should be able to surmise that the child lives with the parents, therefore that address is that of the child... Maybe there is an exemption because you are making hotel reservations? I don't know... I'm not a lawyer nor will I pretend to play one on WDWMagic... But, if this information is not allowed to be collected, then I guess technically, they are in the wrong already... More than likely all hotels and airlines are in violation...

Except that, if you actually read COPPA, the scope of its coverage only applies to web sites and online entities. The information collected by WDW, while via a website, isn't used in an online capacity, its used for a hotel and park ticket. No more illegal than an airline, bus company, local school, church, library, etc.

 

[Captain Chaos]

Except that, if you actually read COPPA, the scope of its coverage only applies to web sites and online entities. The information collected by WDW, while via a website, isn't used in an online capacity, its used for a hotel and park ticket. No more illegal than an airline, bus company, local school, church, library, etc.

dvcmember.com, disneyworld.com are online entities... Disney.com is as well... technically, collecting this information via the website is in fact a violation of COPPA... and I also said it may be an exemption because you are booking reservations... And it may be exempted because an adult is making the reservation and providing the information thus granting consent...

 

[Captain Chaos]

So, you're disproving your own accusation that they would be in violation then? Then I don't understand your argument.

You stated COPPA only deals with online entities.. I pointed out Disneyworld.com and dvcmember.com are online entities that require you to provide a child's full name on the reservation... which, according to the law, in fact a violation...

And I also stated the reason why they may be allowed to collect that information, which, again, is not allowed to be collected under COPPA...

I'm not taking a side in this as I personally don't care... WDW is not getting my business until they earn it.. bracelets do nothing to earn my business..

 

[Monty]

Just so people understand...

COPPA applies to websites that collect identifying information from children under 13 years of age. The information they are not allowed to collect from children can be collected with "verifiable consent from a parent".

The wristbands and the infrastructure that is or will be deployed at WDW do not constitute a website and collected identifying data about children is not being collected from them over the internet [it may be being input by their parents over the internet, but that's not covered by COPPA].

 

[GrumpyFan]

dvcmember.com, disneyworld.com are online entities... Disney.com is as well... technically, collecting this information via the website is in fact a violation of COPPA... and I also said it may be an exemption because you are booking reservations... And it may be exempted because an adult is making the reservation and providing the information thus granting consent...

indeed, intent and how it would be used would determine if its allowable or not. like in the example of the airlines and other entities that use an online presence for entering and storing this information.
Again, the government, specifically, the TSA has more information on you than Disney ever will.

 

[Rose&Crowner]

But but but Big Brother! Oh no!!!!1

 

[underemployedCricket]

Not going into this with blinders on- or a pollyanna attitude. Answer the questions- fully and honestly without side stepping them Mr Iger and I will form an opinion based on that.

What has bothered me most about this- is the snake oil salesmen pitch that is being handed out by Disney.ITs the elephant in the room- holy crap- its a whole herd of elephants in the room

Either you know what its depths you are gonna take it too OR your in over your head....Which one is it? Speak to those of us who want the truth- the whole truth and nothing but the truth on this. Then we can move on and see what the collateral damage is on this.

While I know this has expanded and been morphed into a Guest Experience type Enviroment perception - I also
have my pixie dust overdose shield up- and can smell a rat- that used to be a mouse.....

I can imagine being a fly on the wall- after this was green lit and then handed to advertising blue sky phase.....have they come out of THAT meeting yet...........

 

[biggreen19]

Long time lurker here and decided to jump in on this topic. It has been posted that the bracelets will be using GPS enabled RFID technology. I know enough about the technology that real time tacking is possible. If the capability is there, it's not a question if it will be used, but when. This crosses the creepy line for me, especially when I am on vacation. I can envision large monitors of the parks or sections of the parks with hundreds of data tags that can be selected and "poof" there you are : name, age, what resort you are staying in, how much you have spent on dining, souvenirs, snacks and hundreds of other data points collected on you and your family members that is jammed through some analytics to provide you some additional "magic your way" either right on the spot, or in some other measured way to entice you to part with more of your cash. I can only imagine what Disney could do with all of the data they will be collecting or where that data may wind up.

I am not here to bash Disney, heck I have owned DVC since 2005, I am just getting little concerned with Disney's overall strategy for WDW.

I am not drinking the next-gen cool-aide and plan on deferring any WDW visits until at least 2015 to see how this all shakes out. Or maybe when I return in 2015, I'll stay at the boardwalk and just skip the WDW parks and visit seaworld, busch gardens and Universal and enjoy an "old school" visit where I can just go with the flow...........................

 

[Captain Chaos]

Long time lurker here and decided to jump in on this topic. It has been posted that the bracelets will be using GPS enabled RFID technology. I know enough about the technology that real time tacking is possible. If the capability is there, it's not a question if it will be used, but when. This crosses the creepy line for me, especially when I am on vacation. I can envision large monitors of the parks or sections of the parks with hundreds of data tags that can be selected and "poof" there you are : name, age, what resort you are staying in, how much you have spent on dining, souvenirs, snacks and hundreds of other data points collected on you and your family members that is jammed through some analytics to provide you some additional "magic your way" either right on the spot, or in some other measured way to entice you to part with more of your cash. I can only imagine what Disney could do with all of the data they will be collecting or where that data may wind up.

I am not here to bash Disney, heck I have owned DVC since 2005, I am just getting little concerned with Disney's overall strategy for WDW.

I am not drinking the next-gen cool-aide and plan on deferring any WDW visits until at least 2015 to see how this all shakes out. Or maybe when I return in 2015, I'll stay at the boardwalk and just skip the WDW parks and visit seaworld, busch gardens and Universal and enjoy an "old school" visit where I can just go with the flow...........................

Don't even think about the bracelets, the app you will be forced to use tracks you via your phone... So the tacking ability is there whether people want to believe it or not...

 

[Monty]

Long time lurker here and decided to jump in on this topic. It has been posted that the bracelets will be using GPS enabled RFID technology. I know enough about the technology that real time tacking is possible. If the capability is there, it's not a question if it will be used, but when. This crosses the creepy line for me, especially when I am on vacation. I can envision large monitors of the parks or sections of the parks with hundreds of data tags that can be selected and "poof" there you are : name, age, what resort you are staying in, how much you have spent on dining, souvenirs, snacks and hundreds of other data points collected on you and your family members that is jammed through some analytics to provide you some additional "magic your way" either right on the spot, or in some other measured way to entice you to part with more of your cash. I can only imagine what Disney could do with all of the data they will be collecting or where that data may wind up.

I am not here to bash Disney, heck I have owned DVC since 2005, I am just getting little concerned with Disney's overall strategy for WDW.

I am not drinking the next-gen cool-aide and plan on deferring any WDW visits until at least 2015 to see how this all shakes out. Or maybe when I return in 2015, I'll stay at the boardwalk and just skip the WDW parks and visit seaworld, busch gardens and Universal and enjoy an "old school" visit where I can just go with the flow...........................

There is no GPS in the bracelets. There is active WiFi RFID and some folks have postulated that that could be used to track guests. "Could" be used. No-one has provided any indication that Disney intends to or would have any viable reason to.

To extend that tracking capability to a real-time WDW-wide equivalent of an air traffic control interactive display could be done, but at great expense and for no profit-based reason that I could fathom. "Could" be done...

Don't even think about the bracelets, the app you will be forced to use tracks you via your phone... So the tacking ability is there whether people want to believe it or not...

The location services on my iPhone do provide a GPS location to any app that I've allowed to use locations, but only when I have the app running. The only exception to this is the "Find My Friends" app, which actually can provide my location to friends I've added to it whether the app is running or not, but only if location services is currently on.

But even if every guest enabled geo-location of their cell phones, what profit-oriented purpose would it serve that would warrant the expense?

There is a profit-based use for collecting data on your purchasing habits that could equate to pushing you offers when you happen to be in a particular store, but geo-location data isn't required to do that. A sensor at the entrances/exits of stores that picks up when you walk in, checks your profile and feeds you an offer tailored to your purchasing history would be much cheaper to implement and just as profitable.

 

[awoogala]

If I was a kid and Mickey called me by my name I would be so happy. There are parts of Next Gen I really like and think that people are just complaining just to complain.

really? my kid would be scared to death. why would mickey know his name>? I seriously think this was thought up by people who do not have children. My kids would never be ok with mickey knowing their names. they aren't stupid, and mickey isn't supposed to be omniscient.

 

[Monty]

really? my kid would be scared to death. why would mickey know his name>? I seriously think this was thought up by people who do not have children. My kids would never be ok with mickey knowing their names. they aren't stupid, and mickey isn't supposed to be omniscient.

I doubt you'll see Mickey calling your kid by name, but what you might see is your kid's name thrown into a ride. Perhaps as you ride past Ursula on Little Mermaid she'll say she's got a plan to "get" Ariel and it'll work so long as "insert your kid's name" doesn't interfere. Or Pooh Bear saying how nice it is to share some hunny with his good friend "insert your kid's name" on his ride.