FigmentPigments
Well-Known Member
Quick Question: are we aiming for the same footage as Magic Kingdom Fantasyland or whatever we end up will be it?
-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
Club 32 Lounge
- Thread starter spacemt354
- Start date
Welcome to the forum!
A stage show for Fantasyland would be an excellent addition! And with your knowledge of the theater industry I think it's a home run! Thanks for volunteering -- sounds like a great plan to me..and the 3D pic looks awesome!
michmousefan
Well-Known Member
Yep, whatever the type of transport -- and whether suspended or on a rail beneath the "pod" -- the design of the Tomorrowland peoplemover wouldn't work. The Casey Jr concept is great... I suppose another cool technique, especially if it was a suspended kind of system, would be to theme the pods like hot-air balloon baskets (I hesitate to use the term "gondola" as that is getting a lot of use elsewhere right now), with the "bottom" of the balloon visible, not unlike the way the dirigible was partially viewable in the late, great Journey Into Imagination ride...
kap91
Well-Known Member
Actually oh my gosh @kap91 I believe the first land we are working on is Fantasyland -- your Jolly Holiday attraction would be an amazing inclusion in this land
Would you be okay with that?
Sure! Definitely interested in working on with all you fine people - especially if any laying out or master planning is involved. (My favorite!). Though I seem to have diffiuclty keeping up with threads lol.
kap91
Well-Known Member
Actually was writing on my Tumblr the other day about what I feel the Beauth and the Beast portion of the FLE should have been like. Here it is below.
This does remind me of a bigger issue I have with the beauty and the beast section or FLE. Namely that there’s a giant B&tB section and yet no major attraction - you have an elaborate meet and greet with a jaw-dropping, e-ticket queue and no substance after. You have a (out of scale) magnificent castle weenie and bridge that draws people to a restaurant that most people can’t go in and is honestly trying to recreate environments that are difficult to recreate - namely the ballroom - which I mean is okay and beautiful and I get but it’s also more “inspired by”. Idk mixed feelings there. And then let’s talk about how there’s an unused 14 feet beneath the floor of the restaurant before you get to ground level that could have been used to make those ceilings higher. The facade they’re trying to build the sets it isn’t capable of accommodating both at the scales they chose. Both suffer. Anyway….
Enchanted tales should be an animatronic/special effects show Or the queue for a BatB ride. I think in an ideal world you go through Maurice’s cottage, through the portal to to the show and when you exit the show you have the option to continue touring the castle (which would lead you to the queue for the ride via passageway) or the exit.
Meanwhile the bridge to the castle should lead to both Be our Guest and a BatB ride. And a facade that has a properly scaled castle. Downstairs is the restaurant and upstairs is the queue for the ride. The queue immediately joins up with the passageway from enchanted tales and proceeds through the castle to the balcony of the ballroom where it looks over diners below. And then goes onward via a disguised indoor bridge to the show building on the other side of the access road. That site is plenty big enough. It could also be built directly behind IASW with a tunnel extension but that would be more complicated.
At the very least the facades and preshow should have been designed to not raise unreasonable expectations.
Ergh all of FLE is a mess. Like I like lots of it, and it certainly fulfilling its purpose, and already cost more than they wanted to spend, but errrrrgh its such a mess. How does any opportunity arise to expand and fix WDW’s ty excuse for Fantasyland and result in a net ride decrease and NOT get rid of the damn circus tents?
This does remind me of a bigger issue I have with the beauty and the beast section or FLE. Namely that there’s a giant B&tB section and yet no major attraction - you have an elaborate meet and greet with a jaw-dropping, e-ticket queue and no substance after. You have a (out of scale) magnificent castle weenie and bridge that draws people to a restaurant that most people can’t go in and is honestly trying to recreate environments that are difficult to recreate - namely the ballroom - which I mean is okay and beautiful and I get but it’s also more “inspired by”. Idk mixed feelings there. And then let’s talk about how there’s an unused 14 feet beneath the floor of the restaurant before you get to ground level that could have been used to make those ceilings higher. The facade they’re trying to build the sets it isn’t capable of accommodating both at the scales they chose. Both suffer. Anyway….
Enchanted tales should be an animatronic/special effects show Or the queue for a BatB ride. I think in an ideal world you go through Maurice’s cottage, through the portal to to the show and when you exit the show you have the option to continue touring the castle (which would lead you to the queue for the ride via passageway) or the exit.
Meanwhile the bridge to the castle should lead to both Be our Guest and a BatB ride. And a facade that has a properly scaled castle. Downstairs is the restaurant and upstairs is the queue for the ride. The queue immediately joins up with the passageway from enchanted tales and proceeds through the castle to the balcony of the ballroom where it looks over diners below. And then goes onward via a disguised indoor bridge to the show building on the other side of the access road. That site is plenty big enough. It could also be built directly behind IASW with a tunnel extension but that would be more complicated.
At the very least the facades and preshow should have been designed to not raise unreasonable expectations.
Ergh all of FLE is a mess. Like I like lots of it, and it certainly fulfilling its purpose, and already cost more than they wanted to spend, but errrrrgh its such a mess. How does any opportunity arise to expand and fix WDW’s ty excuse for Fantasyland and result in a net ride decrease and NOT get rid of the damn circus tents?
kap91
Well-Known Member
As far as space considerations go - if we're talking about WDW the options that give the most space would involve taking over Storybook Circus, the Speedway, using the plot of land behind the service road and HM show building (which requires rerouting the access road - which I'm all for as that would allow for a more centrally located Fantasyland train station (which would allow for a tomorrowland train station! And finally make the train a worthy transportation option) and get rid of the horrid 1970s bridge), and most difficulty - removing Small World and/or relocating it.
Keep in mind that much of the current Fantasyland is on level 2 or even 2.5 and if the tunnels aren't expanded much or expanded creatively that gives a lot of space for stacking attractions ala Disneyland's submarine voyage/autopia/peoplemover/monorail or toad/Alice or space mountain/EO combinations.
Hell the front 3rd of small world's top floor could be demolished as it's just extra height above the loading area - relocate the entrance elsewhere and that alone could solve some of the space problems on the west side of the land.
Obviously this is all assuming an endless budget.
Keep in mind that much of the current Fantasyland is on level 2 or even 2.5 and if the tunnels aren't expanded much or expanded creatively that gives a lot of space for stacking attractions ala Disneyland's submarine voyage/autopia/peoplemover/monorail or toad/Alice or space mountain/EO combinations.
Hell the front 3rd of small world's top floor could be demolished as it's just extra height above the loading area - relocate the entrance elsewhere and that alone could solve some of the space problems on the west side of the land.
Obviously this is all assuming an endless budget.
kap91
Well-Known Member
I like the peoplemover/grand tour idea.
One of the early ideas tossed out for the original FL was bringing back the swan boats and having them go around the FLE before returning to the hub. Boats probably aren't practically but some sort of gentle touring/kinetic attraction sounds great.
Not gonna lie though - with all the ideas being tossed around, just bulldozing everything from HM to SM is sounding appealing. Would get to build the mine train correctly too lol.
One last thing - if you want to include Jolly Holiday that's awesome. Keep in mind it's about the same size as HM though (not a tiny classic dark ride - though I definitely think those should try to make some sort of comeback).
The problem with the tiny dark rides is unless there's a lot of them, one or two on their own, especially if brought to modern theme park standards, can't handle WDW crowds.
What if the peoplemover attraction when it went into its indoor segments BECAME the classic dark rides. So like say instead of having four or five classic dark rides like Anaheim, each 2.5 minutes long you have one massive peoplemover attraction that's like 15 minutes long with four or five 2.5 minute dark ride segments in between touring the land. Higher capacity, only one queue, gives the attraction a reason to exist and not be cut a year later.
One of the early ideas tossed out for the original FL was bringing back the swan boats and having them go around the FLE before returning to the hub. Boats probably aren't practically but some sort of gentle touring/kinetic attraction sounds great.
Not gonna lie though - with all the ideas being tossed around, just bulldozing everything from HM to SM is sounding appealing. Would get to build the mine train correctly too lol.
One last thing - if you want to include Jolly Holiday that's awesome. Keep in mind it's about the same size as HM though (not a tiny classic dark ride - though I definitely think those should try to make some sort of comeback).
The problem with the tiny dark rides is unless there's a lot of them, one or two on their own, especially if brought to modern theme park standards, can't handle WDW crowds.
What if the peoplemover attraction when it went into its indoor segments BECAME the classic dark rides. So like say instead of having four or five classic dark rides like Anaheim, each 2.5 minutes long you have one massive peoplemover attraction that's like 15 minutes long with four or five 2.5 minute dark ride segments in between touring the land. Higher capacity, only one queue, gives the attraction a reason to exist and not be cut a year later.
Hey kap! Welcome!
If it helps -- as much as I can I will try to provide a nightly recap (and I can even tag you in it) so in case we have a ton of pages or something, you won't have to scroll through all of them!
I really agree -- that while aesthetically FLE looks nice...nothing of substance was added around the Mine Train (even that was reduced from its original design)
And I'm not the biggest fan of Storybook Circus -- I like Dumbo and Casey Jr. as characters -- but they could be used a lot better.
I think we were leaning towards a clean slate and starting from scratch with a fantasyland if that sounds good with you?
Poe Dameron
Well-Known Member
If we are starting over I may want to change the layout a little bit. But I guess we could keep it similar in size so we don't have it be unrealistic.
FigmentPigments
Well-Known Member
Haha...that's the only reason I asked. Definitely change the layout.
I agree!
@OvertheHorizon how are you doing -- you have any thoughts on this so far? I know you were interested in starting up again
Brer Oswald
Well-Known Member
I thought we were making our own Fantasyland rather than remodelling WDW's?
Yes we are still on that path
FigmentPigments
Well-Known Member
I may get stones thrown at me, but I would like to suggest we don't put in It's A Small World....
kap91
Well-Known Member
I would be ok with this. It's a classic historical attraction that probably belongs somewhere, but I'm okay with it not being Fantasyland. Heck I could make the argument it would work in tomorrowland (worlds fair) and it's been argued time and time again to put it into Epcot.
If we do include it, it really does make a lot of sense to move it somewhere other than its current location. And actually, given how the ride is constructed, it's fairly cheap to move too.
FigmentPigments
Well-Known Member
I agree. I don't want to dispose of it entirely, but I don't much like the placement in Fantasyland, (Tomorrowland, Epcot, even Main Street or whatever we decide to use for the entrance might be better solutions).
I'm good with this too.
It would be an interesting take on Tomorrowland as well -- if instead of Tomorrowland, it was more of a moment in time (The Worlds Fair)
This would eliminate the constant outdating of attractions. Kinda like what they tried to do in Disneyland with the Discoveryland overlay, but it didn't work so well haha