Classic WDW logo disappearing from monorails?

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Clearly it was more than a try as you acknowledge the sarcasm.

Certain Things:

How many details you are comfortable loosing? As others have mentioned, isn't the detail at WDW important? If not, they should call WDW Theme Park 2, Theme Park 4, Theme Park 5, and Theme Park 8. (Not sure I got those numbers right, but hey who cares about detail.)

Why have a large sign from one side of the highway to the other welcoming you to WDW? Wouldn't a normal town border sign do?

Why paint all the store fronts on Main Street different colors? Wouldn't a nice beige on all of the buildings be good enough?

Why have area specific background music or smells? Just one piece of music should be good enough. Heck, why not eliminate it all together? Do they really have to pump the smell from the bakery?

Specifically speaking of monorails, why not paint them all the same color? You could just put a number on the front.

Why blow a citrus smell at you in Soarin'? Isn't the experience the same when that's not working?

Are you the person that decides those certain things? You seem to be.

Changing something isn't a big deal in and of itself. Removing a single detail is no big deal. Removing lots of detail in many places starts to become a big deal.

Losing quality, detail, maintenance and nuance turns a landmark into a Six Flags. Loosing things is hard because getting new things has become infrequent.

In similar discussion threads, there seems to be 2 sides of these issues. One side observes things around them and says," It's not as good as it was, but it's good enough. The other side observes those things and says, " Meet the expectations you have always presented as the standard."
*1023*
Wow, that was a lot of effort to just attempt to prove me wrong. I am kind of perplexed as to how to exactly respond so let's start with the following.
Are you the person that decides those certain things? You seem to be.
If I cannot decide what I think is important to the overall experience, who can. Of course, I'm the one that makes that decision. On the same course of discussion... Are you the person that decides what is important? You seem to be and you are correct but only for yourself. You can be as bent out of shape as your heart desires, it still only matters to you and whomever else has the same fixation.

Now that we have cleared that hurdle let's address it a little deeper. There isn't a single thing that you listed that I don't consider important to the atmosphere and feeling that one gets at places like WDW. They are important and I would notice them if they disappear. But, we are talking about a 4"X4" plastic decal. We are not talking about anything that is important to the story or to the enjoyment of the situation. It is a "detail" that is everywhere in the park. Not being on that tiny spot on the front of a Monorail train does not stop it from being a Walt Disney World Monorail nor does it prevent it from being a Monorail Train if it's missing. It is so short on the importance scale that it is almost completely immeasurable. There is no history other then being a decoration for the outside. It's location is not contributing to the operation, it cannot be seen from the inside and doesn't convey any information other then you are in WDW and, I would hope that you already know that. It has no back story like "Well, Walt sketched that design as a child and we copied it to the Monorail as a tribute to him. No, it's a decal put there because they wanted to put it there. No other reason. Now it appears that they don't want it there anymore and no one is ever going to care except the few that saw it and put some sort of significance on it.

In relation to the 2 sides argument... OK, let's list the two sides. The first is, I saw them years ago and I really like them so I wish they were still there. The second, never noticed them and feel any particular connection so I don't care if they are there or not. There is no other valid argument either way.

They are a design idea, not an experience. By the way, with the exception of the citrus smell everything else you listed are utility needs. WDW would still be WDW without the signs, it just wouldn't be found as easily. The logo, although cute, does nothing. It doesn't tell us that it's in Disney World, I think we already know that. They do also add to the atmosphere, but they aren't in and of themselves, the atmosphere. The decals don't even identify them as Monorail Trains. If we can see the decal, we probably can see what they are attached too.

Now another angle, would it hurt them to still have them on the trains, probably not, but, until they disappeared no one ever said... Oh, look at that decal, now I know I'm in WDW. That is not the detail that we need to focus our upset on. Want a real issue? Empty show buildings, closed dining places, half empty theme parks with no apparent forward movement. Kinda makes that silly little decal seem like a pretty small insignificant problem doesn't it. It can't even be blamed on cost. When you are looking at budgets in the billions, that $5.60 per decal has probably already fallen out of the cash bag and discarded as being to small to even bend over and pick up. If you are going to fight over something, let's be realistic about how important it is to the experience. Let's direct this concern toward stuff that really will make a difference. Did changing the soap in the restrooms alter the experience of going to WDW? All this fake concern and especially forcing an idea that it signifies the eventual downfall of WDW, is just misplaced nostalgia and in many ways harms the fight to stop them from doing real damage to the show. Crying wolf at every turn will eventually mean that it is ignored completely.
 

1023

Provocateur, Rancanteur, Plaisanter, du Jour
Wow, that was a lot of effort to just attempt to prove me wrong. I am kind of perplexed as to how to exactly respond so let's start with the following.

If I cannot decide what I think is important to the overall experience, who can. Of course, I'm the one that makes that decision. On the same course of discussion... Are you the person that decides what is important? You seem to be and you are correct but only for yourself. You can be as bent out of shape as your heart desires, it still only matters to you and whomever else has the same fixation.

Now that we have cleared that hurdle let's address it a little deeper. There isn't a single thing that you listed that I don't consider important to the atmosphere and feeling that one gets at places like WDW. They are important and I would notice them if they disappear. But, we are talking about a 4"X4" plastic decal. We are not talking about anything that is important to the story or to the enjoyment of the situation. It is a "detail" that is everywhere in the park. Not being on that tiny spot on the front of a Monorail train does not stop it from being a Walt Disney World Monorail nor does it prevent it from being a Monorail Train if it's missing. It is so short on the importance scale that it is almost completely immeasurable. There is no history other then being a decoration for the outside. It's location is not contributing to the operation, it cannot be seen from the inside and doesn't convey any information other then you are in WDW and, I would hope that you already know that. It has no back story like "Well, Walt sketched that design as a child and we copied it to the Monorail as a tribute to him. No, it's a decal put there because they wanted to put it there. No other reason. Now it appears that they don't want it there anymore and no one is ever going to care except the few that saw it and put some sort of significance on it.

In relation to the 2 sides argument... OK, let's list the two sides. The first is, I saw them years ago and I really like them so I wish they were still there. The second, never noticed them and feel any particular connection so I don't care if they are there or not. There is no other valid argument either way.

They are a design idea, not an experience. By the way, with the exception of the citrus smell everything else you listed are utility needs. WDW would still be WDW without the signs, it just wouldn't be found as easily. The logo, although cute, does nothing. It doesn't tell us that it's in Disney World, I think we already know that. They do also add to the atmosphere, but they aren't in and of themselves, the atmosphere. The decals don't even identify them as Monorail Trains. If we can see the decal, we probably can see what they are attached too.

Now another angle, would it hurt them to still have them on the trains, probably not, but, until they disappeared no one ever said... Oh, look at that decal, now I know I'm in WDW. That is not the detail that we need to focus our upset on. Want a real issue? Empty show buildings, closed dining places, half empty theme parks with no apparent forward movement. Kinda makes that silly little decal seem like a pretty small insignificant problem doesn't it. It can't even be blamed on cost. When you are looking at budgets in the billions, that $5.60 per decal has probably already fallen out of the cash bag and discarded as being to small to even bend over and pick up. If you are going to fight over something, let's be realistic about how important it is to the experience. Let's direct this concern toward stuff that really will make a difference. Did changing the soap in the restrooms alter the experience of going to WDW? All this fake concern and especially forcing an idea that it signifies the eventual downfall of WDW, is just misplaced nostalgia and in many ways harms the fight to stop them from doing real damage to the show. Crying wolf at every turn will eventually mean that it is ignored completely.

Let me boil it down for you. Details make a difference. If someone is concerned about a loss of a detail that is for them. You have been very verbose that the decal doesn't both you. You are being obtuse by not looking to the larger point I was making and yet at the same time making it. We obviously agree on the larger issues you mentioned. I never said the decal was the downfall of WDW. I will say that while the change in soap didn't bother me, the hand towels and toilet tissue certainly have. (One more so than the other.)

I guess I have one question. If a detail wasn't important to begin with why put it there in the first place?

When you see what you consider a "wolf" let me know...

*1023*
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Let me boil it down for you. Details make a difference. If someone is concerned about a loss of a detail that is for them. You have been very verbose that the decal doesn't both you. You are being obtuse by not looking to the larger point I was making and yet at the same time making it. We obviously agree on the larger issues you mentioned. I never said the decal was the downfall of WDW. I will say that while the change in soap didn't bother me, the hand towels and toilet tissue certainly have. (One more so than the other.)

I guess I have one question. If a detail wasn't important to begin with why put it there in the first place?

When you see what you consider a "wolf" let me know...

*1023*
I understand your point, I just think it is not valid over this item. We will just have to agree to disagree on this detailgate.

The answer to your question is design, pure and simple. No other reason. The buses all used to be white with a big Disney on the side too. Again, design. Not only that but they have upgraded the buses, isn't that the same sacrilegistic problem as the decal. Shouldn't they be using the same buses that they started with?

I already gave you three of many "Wolfs" in my last response.
Empty show buildings, closed dining places, half empty theme parks with no apparent forward movement.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I understand your point, I just think it is not valid over this item. We will just have to agree to disagree on this detailgate.

The answer to your question is design, pure and simple. No other reason. The buses all used to be white with a big Disney on the side too. Again, design. Not only that but they have upgraded the buses, isn't that the same sacrilegistic problem as the decal. Shouldn't they be using the same buses that they started with?

I already gave you three of many "Wolfs" in my last response.
The decal missing is not at all the same as changing the bus livery. The decals were not removed as part of a design decision.
 

articos

Well-Known Member
Like others have said, it's simply an oversight. I also heard shop has new management, and I hope there is better attention to detail. Silver was repainted 7 or so years ago and the emblems were left off. Yellow was repainted after Silver and the emblems were not forgotten. Since then I believe the only trains to receive full paint jobs were Teal and Peach. With Coral for the TRON wrap, they painted the roofs & cabs, and the rest was wrapped. When the wrap was removed, only the roofs and cabs were repainted. The rest of the train was untouched. Which is disappointing, because Coral had the worst paint job of them all. It had several different shades of paint, and sloppy deltas. I believe the same is true for Red and Black - only the cabs and roofs were repainted. If you look at the window vents on Monorail Peach - the tail cars have grey window vents, and the rest of the train has black vents. Personally I think the black vents look better, but either way they should match.
Silver needs a lot of TLC at the moment.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
The decal missing is not at all the same as changing the bus livery. The decals were not removed as part of a design decision.
So they fell off? Someone had a reason for removing them and not replacing them. What would that be? Oh, yea, a design change decision, however minor and for whatever reason! Exactly the same way the someone made the decision to include them in the beginning. They no longer served a recognizable purpose.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
So they fell off? Someone had a reason for removing them and not replacing them. What would that be? Oh, yea, a design change decision, however minor and for whatever reason! Exactly the same way the someone made the decision to include them in the beginning. They no longer served a recognizable purpose.
What you seem to have trouble understand is that they have not been removed from all trains. Forgetting is not a design decision. And how can you speak to any knowledge when you didn't even know they were there? It's amazing how you are both oblivious to what is right there and an expert on design intent.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
What you seem to have trouble understand is that they have not been removed from all trains. Forgetting is not a design decision. And how can you speak to any knowledge when you didn't even know they were there? It's amazing how you are both oblivious to what is right there and an expert on design intent.
They haven't removed all the white buses yet either. It means nothing. Look you guys can continue to reach for pie in the sky reasons if you like. I've grown tired of the discussion. I'm out.
 

peachykeen

Well-Known Member
As Monorail_Red mentioned earlier - and I also was a witness to as well- during a period of time, two Monorials went for repainting. One came out of paint missing it's D logos, and the other came out of paint WITH it's D logos.

So I disagree that it was/is a design decision. They are simply forgotten during repaints, and there doesn't seem to be any reason for it.

At least when I was in Monorails, some trains had all 4 D's, some had only 2 (on one end or the other) and others had none.

Personally, I like the logo, and hope that reports in this thread that they will be more consistent with repainting them are true. I have no reason to believe they aren't.
 

s8film40

Well-Known Member
I was specifically told that removing the D's was a design decision. However I tend to agree that that was not the real reason. When they first started painting the trains after the installation of the paint booth in the shop the work could be described as sloppy at best. The stripes were of inconsistent width over the course of the train, some did not line up at the nose (one side of the train the stripe was higher than the other), the deltas on Coral were differently shaped on each car and in fact the first train painted was sent back the first day because the windows had been painted white and guests couldn't see out. I think the real issue was the one foot square logo was just too "fine a detail" and it was beyond Disney's ability to paint it correctly. Many of the early ones were missing portions of the logo had paint drips and misshapen. I think they adopted the philosophy if you can't do something right just don't do it at all.

PiqN7Uu.jpg
 

Figment2005

Well-Known Member
I was specifically told that removing the D's was a design decision. However I tend to agree that that was not the real reason. When they first started painting the trains after the installation of the paint booth in the shop the work could be described as sloppy at best. The stripes were of inconsistent width over the course of the train, some did not line up at the nose (one side of the train the stripe was higher than the other), the deltas on Coral were differently shaped on each car and in fact the first train painted was sent back the first day because the windows had been painted white and guests couldn't see out. I think the real issue was the one foot square logo was just too "fine a detail" and it was beyond Disney's ability to paint it correctly. Many of the early ones were missing portions of the logo had paint drips and misshapen. I think they adopted the philosophy if you can't do something right just don't do it at all.

PiqN7Uu.jpg
The logo is a sticker.
 

P_Radden

Well-Known Member
I was specifically told that removing the D's was a design decision. However I tend to agree that that was not the real reason. When they first started painting the trains after the installation of the paint booth in the shop the work could be described as sloppy at best. The stripes were of inconsistent width over the course of the train, some did not line up at the nose (one side of the train the stripe was higher than the other), the deltas on Coral were differently shaped on each car and in fact the first train painted was sent back the first day because the windows had been painted white and guests couldn't see out. I think the real issue was the one foot square logo was just too "fine a detail" and it was beyond Disney's ability to paint it correctly. Many of the early ones were missing portions of the logo had paint drips and misshapen. I think they adopted the philosophy if you can't do something right just don't do it at all.

PiqN7Uu.jpg

There is no way that is painted on. It would have to be stenciled to be painted (unless they have some crazy talented free hand artists, but I'm guessing not based on what you said about the crappy in house paint jobs done with the striping) I just can't see them masking off the whole side of the cabin then taping a stencil and spraying it...

Has to be a sticker or vinyl of some sort.
 

s8film40

Well-Known Member
I'm not going to argue that because I don't really know, but from what I do know about modern transportation vehicles, I truly doubt that it is painted on.
Well to be fair I can only say for a fact that the Mark IV's, Mark VI's when they were delivered and when they were repainted had the D painted on it is possible that they are using stickers now. All previous D's were painted though. In fact it's very hard to tell in the photo I posted but on that D on Coral the paint was running before it dried and was quite visible in person. Stickers don't drip. As for the complexity of painting the D it is just as easy to have a stencil cut to shape as it is a sticker. It would also probably be difficult to match the color and finish perfectly of the sticker to the paint.
 

s8film40

Well-Known Member
Also, what do those buttons/switches do?

After seeing all these pics, I have an urge to push them. ALL OF THEM!
They open and close all the doors for that side of the train. The fact that when you press them it either makes the door chime to open or the "please stand clear of the doors" recording makes it even that much more appealing to press them!
 

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