Changes to Peter Pan's Flight at Magic Kingdom

flynnibus

flynnibus

Premium Member
ThePhoenicians said:
Although we are far removed from it, I think it's worth noting that jokes and stereotypes of Natives (and Poles) helped to justify and give a pass to real-life discrimination and genocide.
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That's a long skip from step 1 to step X... but certainly most people can tell the difference between humor and dehumanizing people.

ThePhoenicians said:
Although you may be okay with a Pollock joke, my ancestors probably would not have appreciated being dehumanized and discriminated against. It may be fine to make jokes in your own private space, but for very public matters it's not acceptable anymore. Which is a good thing.
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Or.. people can tell the difference between humor and hate. Know where I heard the most pollock jokes? From my immigrant grandparents mocking their children's mistakes.

There is a difference between humor and ridicule... the problem is people have seemed to lost that and context and we get this hyper sensitivity that we are in now.. where words instead of intent are judged.

ThePhoenicians said:
Again, we don't have to dumb ourselves down. We can be better and not need to offend others. You can be creative, funny, and respected all without being mean.
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I agree, instead of dumbing ourselves down and trying to remove every reference that MIGHT POSSIBLY BE OFFENSIVE IF YOU SQUINT... we should actually be intelligent enough to understand things in context and take in all aspects, not just things in isolation.
 
flynnibus

flynnibus

Premium Member
osian said:
Indeed. There are many people who couldn't see anything wrong with the Black & White Minstrels.
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I find it hysterical that people are ok with this Peter Pan redo because it removes the offensive visuals.. but does nothing else. It's literally a whitewashing of the conflict of the source material. The same very 'problematic' issue that plagued Song of the South in so many eyes. By depicting the people and period as this whitewashed happy, instead of the troublesome realism of the plight of those demographics.

Same here, same problematic stereotyping of Natives... but if we just clean them up, dress them nice, and remove the caricature styling... everything is great! Smile for the camera!!

It's hypocritical and just reenforces that most of the angst is white knighting with little actual merit. It's avoiding hot spots, nothing more.
 
Disstevefan1

Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
flynnibus said:
I find it hysterical that people are ok with this Peter Pan redo because it removes the offensive visuals.. but does nothing else. It's literally a whitewashing of the conflict of the source material. The same very 'problematic' issue that plagued Song of the South in so many eyes. By depicting the people and period as this whitewashed happy, instead of the troublesome realism of the plight of those demographics.

Same here, same problematic stereotyping of Natives... but if we just clean them up, dress them nice, and remove the caricature styling... everything is great! Smile for the camera!!

It's hypocritical and just reenforces that most of the angst is white knighting with little actual merit. It's avoiding hot spots, nothing more.
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I am fine with this change. It wasn’t closed for a long time and they didn’t destroy the attraction.

If the story matters team can be kept happy with harmless changes like this, I am all for it.
 
ThePhoenicians

ThePhoenicians

Member
flynnibus said:
That's a long skip from step 1 to step X... but certainly most people can tell the difference between humor and dehumanizing people.


Or.. people can tell the difference between humor and hate. Know where I heard the most pollock jokes? From my immigrant grandparents mocking their children's mistakes.

There is a difference between humor and ridicule... the problem is people have seemed to lost that and context and we get this hyper sensitivity that we are in now.. where words instead of intent are judged.


I agree, instead of dumbing ourselves down and trying to remove every reference that MIGHT POSSIBLY BE OFFENSIVE IF YOU SQUINT... we should actually be intelligent enough to understand things in context and take in all aspects, not just things in isolation.
Click to expand...
Like I said, in a private space between friends and family, we can understand the context of jokes, but for a business or for a public setting like a theme park aimed to children, it makes perfect sense to remove offensive references rather than hoping people get it. Seems like a no-brainer to me.
 
flynnibus

flynnibus

Premium Member
ThePhoenicians said:
Like I said, in a private space between friends and family, we can understand the context of jokes, but for a business or for a public setting like a theme park aimed to children, it makes perfect sense to remove offensive references rather than hoping people get it. Seems like a no-brainer to me.
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I still disagree. It's why standup comedy was one of the last areas where people could say things that in other formats would be disavowed... People can take in context and intent if they want to. And in formats like art or theme parks... you can actually explain things with people instead of acting like it's presence alone is going to cause the rot of civilizaiton.

I find the lack of comprehension or dialog on topics far more destructive. The lack of knowledge, not the mocking of someone, is what causes harm.
 
ThePhoenicians

ThePhoenicians

Member
flynnibus said:
I still disagree. It's why standup comedy was one of the last areas where people could say things that in other formats would be disavowed... People can take in context and intent if they want to. And in formats like art or theme parks... you can actually explain things with people instead of acting like it's presence alone is going to cause the rot of civilizaiton.

I find the lack of comprehension or dialog on topics far more destructive. The lack of knowledge, not the mocking of someone, is what causes harm.
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Well we agree on something - lack of knowledge is destructive...
 
Bocabear

Bocabear

Well-Known Member
It is interesting when you go back to the source material and the illustrations from the 1904 book, the Indians were clearly based on a romantic version of Native Americans, but this was supposed to be in Neverland....which was it's own planet in the stars. The original illustrations were not the caricatures depicted in the 1953 movie either. If they wanted to make these characters inoffensive they should have gone back to the original source material and glean that for a replacement rather than adding real-world native American cultural references... This was a tribe on a fantasy planet... not an actual specific Native American tribe...they should keep it within the realm of the movie or the source material...don't add completely new things from the real world... If there was not a blanket dance in either, don't add it....
That said, it looks nice... Maybe it should have just been TigerLily though... Since we have never been introduced to this other character before...
 
T

Two Ears

Member
flynnibus said:
I find it hysterical that people are ok with this Peter Pan redo because it removes the offensive visuals.. but does nothing else. It's literally a whitewashing of the conflict of the source material. The same very 'problematic' issue that plagued Song of the South in so many eyes. By depicting the people and period as this whitewashed happy, instead of the troublesome realism of the plight of those demographics.

Same here, same problematic stereotyping of Natives... but if we just clean them up, dress them nice, and remove the caricature styling... everything is great! Smile for the camera!!

It's hypocritical and just reenforces that most of the angst is white knighting with little actual merit. It's avoiding hot spots, nothing more.
Click to expand...
These are people who lived on a fantasy island in a make believe land. They arent troubled by the problems of real life colonial America. Their problems are the pirates and crocodiles just like the Lost Boys. The Lost Boys also seem to be over the top happy despite these problems.
 
OG Runner

OG Runner

Well-Known Member
The new scene did not appear in the movie, which is what the ride has always represented. It is just another attempt by Disney to rewrite their history, because they are afraid someone could not deal with the depiction of Native Americans (Indians) from a 1953 animated movie. Honestly, I go not really care. It doesn't change the ride any more than Tiana's changed Splash Mountain.
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
OG Runner said:
The new scene did not appear in the movie, which is what the ride has always represented. It is just another attempt by Disney to rewrite their history, because they are afraid someone could not deal with the depiction of Native Americans (Indians) from a 1953 animated movie. Honestly, I go not really care. It doesn't change the ride any more than Tiana's changed Splash Mountain.
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Mr. Toad doesn’t die and go to hell. The strength of the Fantasyland dark rides was that they didn’t just follow the movies exactly.
 
ThePhoenicians

ThePhoenicians

Member
lazyboy97o said:
Mr. Toad doesn’t die and go to hell. The strength of the Fantasyland dark rides was that they didn’t just follow the movies exactly.
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Agreed. If I just wanted a carbon copy of the movie, I could just sit at home and watch it. It is a lot more fun to experience something new on the attractions.
 

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