Change to the Pirates early 2018

[larryz]

I have outdoor cats, but this argument makes sense. Introducing a non-native predator to an ecosystem can be catastrophic (see what I did there). Look at what's happening with pythons in the everglades.

Truth. Look at what happened to Journey Into Imagination when they introduced a former Python...

 

[KBLovedDisney]

Truth. Look at what happened to Journey Into Imagination when they introduced a former Python...

 

[Nick Pobursky]

Why, though? I would legitimately want to know why this is such a beloved scene. Personally, I was always fond of the jail bit at the end.

You're aware that the prison scene depicts three men trapped in a cell as the city burns, frantically trying to lure the dog close so they can get the keys and escape, right? Not long after your boat sails past those three men are roasted alive and die hard. But hey, let's take the redhead scene out because that's something too terrible to handle. The point is, if you want to think too far into one thing, and completely ignore another, you're doing it wrong.

On that same subject, my wife--an actual redheaded human woman--laughed out loud when I told her they were replacing that scene and why. So I'm inclined to disagree with the "half the population" argument. Some people are able to enjoy an entire attraction for what it is, not just certain parts.

 

[larryz]

They should just shut the whole ride down, and convert it into another Frozen ride.

Unless, of course, it offends people who have suffered from frostbite, being hit in the head with a snowball, or allergies to reindeer fur.

 

[disneygeek90]

You're aware that the prison scene depicts three men trapped in a cell as the city burns, frantically trying to lure the dog close so they can get the keys and escape, right? Not long after your boat sails past those three men are roasted alive and die hard. But hey, let's take the redhead scene out because that's something too terrible to handle. The point is, if you want to think too far into one thing, and completely ignore another, you're doing it wrong.

On that same subject, my wife--an actual redheaded human woman--laughed out loud when I told her they were replacing that scene and why. So I'm inclined to disagree with the "half the population" argument. Some people are able to enjoy an entire attraction for what it is, not just certain parts.

Prison men (who, assumingly, have done something worthy of being thrown into prison) dying in a fire, is worse than women being sold into slavery?

Once again, I honestly don't care if they would have left it in or not. But to pretend that drinking or being "crazy bad pirates in jail" is on the same level as selling people is just insane.

 

[KBLovedDisney]

The point is, if you want to think too far into one thing, and completely ignore another, you're doing it wrong.

I honestly don't care if they would have left it in or not.

Boom. End. Full stop.

Now turn ye sails back to the course at hand matey.

Rrrrrrr

 

[disneygeek90]

Boom. End. Full stop.

Now turn ye sails back to the course at hand matey.

Rrrrrrr

Not sure what your point is here, honestly.

 

[Nick Pobursky]

Prison men (who, assumingly, have done something worthy of being thrown into prison) dying in a fire, is worse than women being sold into slavery?

Once again, I honestly don't care if they would have left it in or not. But to pretend that drinking or being "crazy bad pirates in jail" is on the same level as selling people is just insane.

There's the slippery slope, though. If we're to be equal and fair to everyone, then we have to assume that maybe those women were also prisoners for horrible crimes--it was never stated otherwise. And maybe those men were wrongfully imprisoned--again, never stated. So with those assumptions in mind, men burning alive in a fire is by far the worse of the two outcomes.

This is the point of the conversation. How much evidence can you conjure up to support your offense toward a scene or debunk people's offense toward another? By your own logic, I was able to prove that the prison scene is far more offensive only by using the context in which it's presented. And that's the problem. It's a ride, and you're thinking too far into it.

 

[larryz]

Prison men (who, assumingly, have done something worthy of being thrown into prison) dying in a fire, is worse than women being sold into slavery?

Once again, I honestly don't care if they would have left it in or not. But to pretend that drinking or being "crazy bad pirates in jail" is on the same level as selling people is just insane.

They were pirates in the city jail. If the attraction was true-to-life, if they didn't die in the fire, they'd have died on the gallows.

As far as selling women goes, if the pirates were acting true-to-form, they wouldn't be auctioning the women. They would be passing them around the crew, and then killing them afterwards. So in reality, the bride auction scene is an already vastly sanitized version of pirate reality.

Remember the scene in the first PotC movie, when Barbossa invites Elizabeth to dine in his quarters in a dress... and that if she declined, she'd be dining with the crew -- naked. That's a far more realistic approach to how pirates treated captive women. And Disney clearly didn't want that level of villiany depicted in his ride.

 

[disneygeek90]

There's the slippery slope, though. If we're to be equal and fair to everyone, then we have to assume that maybe those women were also prisoners for horrible crimes--it was never stated otherwise. And maybe those men were wrongfully imprisoned--again, never stated. So with those assumptions in mind, men burning alive in a fire is by far the worse of the two outcomes.

This is the point of the conversation. How much evidence can you conjure up to support your offense toward a scene or debunk people's offense toward another? By your own logic, I was able to prove that the prison scene is far more offensive only by using the context in which it's presented. And that's the problem. It's a ride, and you're thinking too far into it.

"Take a Wench for a Bride." Other than promiscuity, I don't think we are supposed to believe they have done any horrible crimes. You're looking too far into it while claiming I'm looking too far into it.

 

[KBLovedDisney]

Not sure what your point is here, honestly.

I wonder why I am here too. What's my point of existence?

 

[Nick Pobursky]

"Take a Wench for a Bride." Other than promiscuity, I don't think we are supposed to believe they have done any horrible crimes. You're looking too far into it while claiming I'm looking too far into it.

My point is, there's no reason for anyone to be offended by anything in this attraction. It's fictional. Someone could come along and get offended by the burning city because a family member died in a fire. And another person sees this and screams, "Yeah, lots of people's family members have died in fires throughout history! We should all be offended!" And it snowballs from there. It could be said about any scene in any attraction. So where do we draw the line?

 

[larryz]

My point is, there's no reason for anyone to be offended by anything in this attraction. It's fictional. Someone could come along and get offended by the burning city because a family member died in a fire. And another person sees this and screams, "Yeah, lots of people's family members have died in fires throughout history! We should all be offended!" And it snowballs from there. It could be said about any scene in any attraction. So where do we draw the line?

Replace every ride with a cartoon IP, and it all goes away... right?

 

[Nick Pobursky]

Replace every ride with a cartoon IP, and it all goes away... right?

That does seem to be the method.

We should get rid of swords on the ride. Do you know how many swords have actually killed people? Is selling a wench worse than using a weapon that has killed hundreds of thousands of people? You know what? I'm offended now.

 

[disneygeek90]

My point is, there's no reason for anyone to be offended by anything in this attraction. It's fictional. Someone could come along and get offended by the burning city because a family member died in a fire. And another person sees this and screams, "Yeah, lots of people's family members have died in fires throughout history! We should all be offended!" And it snowballs from there. It could be said about any scene in any attraction. So where do we draw the line?

Once again, I don't think your example is as comparable and disgusting as full on selling of humans. But I guess that's just my opinion. Some people think it's offensive. Others find it cringe worthy. Others love it. It is what it is, but it doesn't change the fact that Disney will be changing this, maybe they decided it was even a bit offensive to them and decided a change was in order.

 

[RustySpork]

They were pirates in the city jail. If the attraction was true-to-life, if they didn't die in the fire, they'd have died on the gallows.

As far as selling women goes, if the pirates were acting true-to-form, they wouldn't be auctioning the women. They would be passing them around the crew, and then killing them afterwards. So in reality, the bride auction scene is an already vastly sanitized version of pirate reality.

Remember the scene in the first PotC movie, when Barbossa invites Elizabeth to dine in his quarters in a dress... and that if she declined, she'd be dining with the crew -- naked. That's a far more realistic approach to how pirates treated captive women. And Disney clearly didn't want that level of villiany depicted in his ride.

Wasn't it depicted closer to this in the pre-97 attraction?

 

[RustySpork]

Replace every ride with a cartoon IP, and it all goes away... right?

I'd be OK with this if for no other reason than consistency.

 

[larryz]

Wasn't it depicted closer to this in the pre-97 attraction?

Less cartoony... more gruff and bluster...

 

[RustySpork]

Less cartoony... more gruff and bluster...

Make it like Shanghai, and let the offended people ride It's a Small World. More room for ME!

 

[J_Carioca]

I don't know. I recently read a post (on another forum) where people should not let their cats out so they would not eat the wildlife in the area. Pretty sure this person was a vegetarian.

Household cats are responsible for killing tons of wildlife, in some cases to a problematic extent (severely depleting the population of some species). It's just a fact. But...what in the name of god does this have to do with anything?