-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
Cast member strike vote, June 6, 2007
- Thread starter Fantasia freak
- Start date
- Status
CRO-Magnum
Active Member
I believe I understand both sides' point of view...
...and there is no easy solution. However Disney management is very bloated. Why? Because their legacy of hiring non-degreed people into entry level management jobs and promoting them has created a situation where the bar is too low. As a cast member at WDW in central reservations in 1990 I saw it first hand. A 400 seat call center had the same level of management staffing as a typical 1200 seat call center anywhere else. Did it lead to better calls, better guest interaction? No. But very few in management had degrees or the requisite training and therefore more overhead was required to oversee the various functions.
Disney could/should eliminate entire levels of management, over time, by raising the bar. Of course this would require a shift from the Eisner era of consolidating power, which requires lots of management, to distributed power where managers are empowered requiring less oversight. I'm willing to bet Disney could cut 20% of its management staff in 2 years or less. And those are some big salaries!
One tactic I would look for unions in general is to provide the healthcare benefit to members, or at least to threaten to. This would protect members during a strike, benefits would likely be cheaper due to the combined purchasing power, and it would remove it from discussions robbing corporations of some of their bargaining power. Healthcare rates are based on a number of factors but a primary one is size. Another is age which the resort staff bring down the average. Combining union members around the country the union could negotiate better rates. And removing 29,000 people from the Disney coverage would have a huge impact on Disney and would perhaps make them think twice about providing better pay.
The reality is that Disney can pay competitive wages. They choose not to in part because much of their company is located in very expensive areas such as Southern California and New York and theme park profits roll to the bottom line. If paid in relation to contribution, resort CM compensation would double overnight while the TV and film groups would crumble.
...just my thoughts.
...and there is no easy solution. However Disney management is very bloated. Why? Because their legacy of hiring non-degreed people into entry level management jobs and promoting them has created a situation where the bar is too low. As a cast member at WDW in central reservations in 1990 I saw it first hand. A 400 seat call center had the same level of management staffing as a typical 1200 seat call center anywhere else. Did it lead to better calls, better guest interaction? No. But very few in management had degrees or the requisite training and therefore more overhead was required to oversee the various functions.
Disney could/should eliminate entire levels of management, over time, by raising the bar. Of course this would require a shift from the Eisner era of consolidating power, which requires lots of management, to distributed power where managers are empowered requiring less oversight. I'm willing to bet Disney could cut 20% of its management staff in 2 years or less. And those are some big salaries!
One tactic I would look for unions in general is to provide the healthcare benefit to members, or at least to threaten to. This would protect members during a strike, benefits would likely be cheaper due to the combined purchasing power, and it would remove it from discussions robbing corporations of some of their bargaining power. Healthcare rates are based on a number of factors but a primary one is size. Another is age which the resort staff bring down the average. Combining union members around the country the union could negotiate better rates. And removing 29,000 people from the Disney coverage would have a huge impact on Disney and would perhaps make them think twice about providing better pay.
The reality is that Disney can pay competitive wages. They choose not to in part because much of their company is located in very expensive areas such as Southern California and New York and theme park profits roll to the bottom line. If paid in relation to contribution, resort CM compensation would double overnight while the TV and film groups would crumble.
...just my thoughts.
ImaYoyo
Active Member
Salaried roles and O&T roles are non-union.
My other thought on this... and this is something that a friend of mine who is an entertainment manager at DLR brought up.
Disney already has enough non-union personnel on site that could be brought in to assist with operation of certain union roles. eg, at DLR Characters are non-union, and if a labor dispute were to arise, they'd be operating attractions, bussing tables, etc.
At WDW, office & technical is non Union. It isn't that hard to find a qualified office person from a temp agency to stuff in the back while a Disney CM gets shifted to the front lines.
Maybe I'm putting too much thought into this.
Disney already has enough non-union personnel on site that could be brought in to assist with operation of certain union roles. eg, at DLR Characters are non-union, and if a labor dispute were to arise, they'd be operating attractions, bussing tables, etc.
At WDW, office & technical is non Union. It isn't that hard to find a qualified office person from a temp agency to stuff in the back while a Disney CM gets shifted to the front lines.
Maybe I'm putting too much thought into this.
CRO-Magnum
Active Member
Don't forget the Disneyland strike...
..and how it emboldened leadership. Disney won that round and has never looked back.
..and how it emboldened leadership. Disney won that round and has never looked back.
Ok. I would think it would be difficult, if not impossible, to go into a position as a non union employee and work for a union supervisor.
You'd be a Teamster. Some of your fellow hourly CM's would, including some above you, but your salaried manager wouldn't be a Teamster.
ImaYoyo
Active Member
Did you forget about the big managment shift in 2005 and 2006? Where hundreds were demoted, moved or fired? They actually DID do what you said just below.
At that time I was O&T, and my area manager reported to a duty, who reported to a GM, who reported to a Leader of Leaders, who reported to another GM, who reported to the VP of my area. WAY too much crap. 1 person reporting to 1 person reporting to 1 person. Not cool. BUT those days are rapidly fading into the past. In my current role, (granted, I'm now in the middle of the chain, not the bottom), it's a much shorter chain of command. 4 steps from bottom to top. Though, the DRC is still laging behind on this one, but most on-stage and most office roles are MUCH more efficient than they were in the early 2000s.
At that time I was O&T, and my area manager reported to a duty, who reported to a GM, who reported to a Leader of Leaders, who reported to another GM, who reported to the VP of my area. WAY too much crap. 1 person reporting to 1 person reporting to 1 person. Not cool. BUT those days are rapidly fading into the past. In my current role, (granted, I'm now in the middle of the chain, not the bottom), it's a much shorter chain of command. 4 steps from bottom to top. Though, the DRC is still laging behind on this one, but most on-stage and most office roles are MUCH more efficient than they were in the early 2000s.
PurpleDragon
Well-Known Member
Sorry I have to put in my 2 cents her about the IT outsourcing.
Disney outsourced its call center support staff (which most corporations are doing these days), but the upper level IT departments are still part of the Disney company. I'm an IT professional and I've checked the Disney job boards multiple times and I see positions for programmers, web developers, network administrators, WAN admins, etc... So Disney still has its own IT staff, just not a call center.
Disney outsourced its call center support staff (which most corporations are doing these days), but the upper level IT departments are still part of the Disney company. I'm an IT professional and I've checked the Disney job boards multiple times and I see positions for programmers, web developers, network administrators, WAN admins, etc... So Disney still has its own IT staff, just not a call center.
literally impossible.
xxbradonxx
New Member
good luck
I hope you guys can work out a better contract. I think that you deserve a better contract. I have visited WDW many times and i never really had a bad experience dealing with any cm down there. I dont agree with all these people who are saying if you dont agree with it then leave and find another job. If you enjoy your job but feel the pay or benefits are not what you believe they should try and make it better. I've seen to many times in jobs that I have had people who work hard not get fair pay in their jobs and quit or take up the attitude of not caring about their job output. This only hurts a company in having to train new people or getting poor production out of the people they have. Basically I'm behind the cm's who care about their jobs.
good luck,
Bradon
I hope you guys can work out a better contract. I think that you deserve a better contract. I have visited WDW many times and i never really had a bad experience dealing with any cm down there. I dont agree with all these people who are saying if you dont agree with it then leave and find another job. If you enjoy your job but feel the pay or benefits are not what you believe they should try and make it better. I've seen to many times in jobs that I have had people who work hard not get fair pay in their jobs and quit or take up the attitude of not caring about their job output. This only hurts a company in having to train new people or getting poor production out of the people they have. Basically I'm behind the cm's who care about their jobs.
good luck,
Bradon
mousermerf
Account Suspended
Just saying "they'll go work attractions" is saying something a bit incorrect. It takes a while to learn an attraction and how to operate it without killing someone. Also, downtime is related to CM newness and error.
You can't just pull someone from anywhere and expect them to know where all 23 fire extinguishers are in a building. You can place them as greeters, but anything that is an evac role requires atleast a few days training... and if your union CMs are gone, who are your trainers?
It's not required to be a CM... during traditions a union rep will hand out cards to join. You can choose not to join.
mousermerf
Account Suspended
Also - how willing do you think other areas are to work some of the positions? Custodial is heavily union and I can't think of many CMs who would willing come into work and do custodial instead because of a strike.
it takes less than a day to train someone in 1 position and perm them there
I learned Fastpass, Bear in the Big Blue House (OPS), and The Living Seas that way over the course of a summer
Disney doesn't give them a choice
Work or find a new job.
mousermerf
Account Suspended
That's a simple position though.
Most attraction positions are far more complex. All of the things you listed could be done by anyonee, but you couldn't operate Test Track with one days training.
Most attraction positions are far more complex. All of the things you listed could be done by anyonee, but you couldn't operate Test Track with one days training.
trendicoff
New Member
I hate to bring the conversation back to the CP but I feel like I need to clear a few things up, but don't worry I'll also talk abou the unions.
At least at my school, although they tried to sugar coat it, the presentaion was very accurate in describing the college program. They even put the actual numbers on the board as to how much you'd make, how much would be deducted and how much you'd be left with.
When I was there spring 05 I made $6.25 an hour and managed to eat, pay my bills, put gas in my car, and even buy a few souvenirs without going into debt. True, I didn;t walk away with a cent, but that wasn;t the point of my time there. As I tell everyone, I was at the bottom of the ladder, and treated like a peon, but I wouldn't have traded it for anything. Like one of the previous posters, I took my days off at the parks which saved money and I got to meet one on one with most of the executive staff of WDW with whom I still correspond. Just my two cents about the college program.
As for other matters:
1) At any given time there is an average of 5500-6000 various interns at WDW
2) Some of those interns are the best CMs I've ever seen and run circles around even veterans (although there are many gems there too)
3) Wal-mart's pay scale (when I checked back in 05) was higher for equivalent entry level positions in comparrision to Disney (this excludes all non-monetary compensation and benefits)
4) Walt hated unions and called them "the end of the Disney family" so I have to side with him (I know not really a valid point, but I wanted to mention it)
5) To the person who said they need to eliminate middle management at Disney, they have been actively working to do so for at least the past 10 years. "Leads" have been eliminated and truly much of the fat has been trimmed.
6) Finally, with regards to promotions, its nearly impossible to make a generalization about sources. I personally viewed a study commisioned by Lee Cockerell to determine the breakdown of internal versus external promostions in WDW. Surprise surprise, the numbers were neraly 50/50 with the internal just slightly higher. Its true that this does not reflect the executive level, where there is a much higher rate of external promotion/hiring, but in echange, many lower disney execs leave to pursue better jobs at other companies so its somewhat of a tradeoff. AS for their education levels, yes its true Disney would like its executives to have graduate degrees (although many only have bachelors), however many many front line managers have no formal college education at all.
Just my 2 cents. I haven;t worked at WDW long, but I'm hoping to stay, bad wages or not.
At least at my school, although they tried to sugar coat it, the presentaion was very accurate in describing the college program. They even put the actual numbers on the board as to how much you'd make, how much would be deducted and how much you'd be left with.
When I was there spring 05 I made $6.25 an hour and managed to eat, pay my bills, put gas in my car, and even buy a few souvenirs without going into debt. True, I didn;t walk away with a cent, but that wasn;t the point of my time there. As I tell everyone, I was at the bottom of the ladder, and treated like a peon, but I wouldn't have traded it for anything. Like one of the previous posters, I took my days off at the parks which saved money and I got to meet one on one with most of the executive staff of WDW with whom I still correspond. Just my two cents about the college program.
As for other matters:
1) At any given time there is an average of 5500-6000 various interns at WDW
2) Some of those interns are the best CMs I've ever seen and run circles around even veterans (although there are many gems there too)
3) Wal-mart's pay scale (when I checked back in 05) was higher for equivalent entry level positions in comparrision to Disney (this excludes all non-monetary compensation and benefits)
4) Walt hated unions and called them "the end of the Disney family" so I have to side with him (I know not really a valid point, but I wanted to mention it)
5) To the person who said they need to eliminate middle management at Disney, they have been actively working to do so for at least the past 10 years. "Leads" have been eliminated and truly much of the fat has been trimmed.
6) Finally, with regards to promotions, its nearly impossible to make a generalization about sources. I personally viewed a study commisioned by Lee Cockerell to determine the breakdown of internal versus external promostions in WDW. Surprise surprise, the numbers were neraly 50/50 with the internal just slightly higher. Its true that this does not reflect the executive level, where there is a much higher rate of external promotion/hiring, but in echange, many lower disney execs leave to pursue better jobs at other companies so its somewhat of a tradeoff. AS for their education levels, yes its true Disney would like its executives to have graduate degrees (although many only have bachelors), however many many front line managers have no formal college education at all.
Just my 2 cents. I haven;t worked at WDW long, but I'm hoping to stay, bad wages or not.
- Status