Cast member strike vote, June 6, 2007

[rtiller]

When you pay that $100, where does that $100 go? Does it go to the union? Does it go to the Electrician? The electrician only gets probably $20 a hour, so the company managing the tradeshow or building gets the rest of the money. So does that make Unions bad?

When you go to a car dealer and have you car worked on, iif it takes 5 minutes or 60 minutes you get the same charge. They charge you for a hourly rate $75 a hour.

If you talk to a lawyer on the phone, you can get charged up to $200 for a 5 minute phone call.

You go to a doctors office and he actually talks to you for 2 minutes, but you get charged a $100 for a office visit.

So I guess this all the Unions fault???

I think Brainpile answered well enough but my last two cents are that it may not be completely the unions fault but it is a "middleman" that is costing me more. The main problem I had was that it wasn't a trade job that only a few can do...it was hanging up a light on my booth. Again the booth and light are owned by me so how is it not crazy that I have to pay somone $100 to put it up. That part IS the unions fault.

 

[mkt]

That's good to know... I was under the impression that China censored the internet and press... But if they are a TRUE free market economy I'm sure that can't be true. I mean everyone knows you can't have a free market economy if there is any form of censorship it would stiffle the exchange of information which is critical to any TRUE free market economy.

I'm sure the government allows a free exchange of information in China don't they... I mean the news articles on censorship in China were just misunderstandings right? And the persecution of religious groups never did happen either right? I mean in a TRUE free market you can not only sell good freely but also services - like religion (which was pretty much given away)...

Sorry MKT but your ignorance on China and a free market is making me ill.

My ignorance on China? I'm sorry, but what is the worlds #1 up and coming economy, or the worlds #1 up and coming market for consumer goods?

China is presently where a true capitalist would want to be. Lack of civil liberties be damned, you can still make money.

There's a diffrence between free exchange of information and making money.

Please don't accuse me of ignorance

 

[zjer]

China is presently where a true capitalist would want to be. Lack of civil liberties be damned, you can still make money.

How true! Capitalism is the the exploitation of others in order to make money. While I'm not sure that China's censorship fits the traditional mold of capitalism, the idea of exploitation for monetary gain sure does.

 

[Deadmanwalking]

My ignorance on China? I'm sorry, but what is the worlds #1 up and coming economy, or the worlds #1 up and coming market for consumer goods?

China is presently where a true capitalist would want to be. Lack of civil liberties be damned, you can still make money.

Up and coming... everyone that isn't at the top could be up and coming... I'm sure Afghanastan is up and coming.



Yep, I'm sure that's why all the big dogs like Buffet and Kravis are closing up shop in the US to move into China.

The fact is China is starting to open up and during this process because they are clueless about how markets should work, they have problems that some people can exploit to make money.... You know like selling industrial waste to pet food manufacturers or using ethylene glycol in toothpaste they ship to South America... Yeah you can make a lot of money when you don't care about the customer or consequences of what you do. Of course you local crack dealer can do the same. Until China reforms its government it is not nor will it be a free market. It is simply at a place where it could happen, but has not happened yet.

 

[mkt]

I will just choose to disagree with you, as opinions are taking the place of facts

 

[CBOMB]

Sorry but to burst your bubble, but I try to avoid buying anything from the asian slave countries like China and Vietnam, not because I have any feeling for people that support a country that uses them like slaves but because the quality is usually horrible.

And if you don't like what your being paid, go get a job somewhere else. Unionized food workers have always annoyed me beyond belief, when I was at college in the north east there was a strike by food workers... it seems 14$/hour wasn't enough when the average McDonalds worker was making less than 8$/hour.

By and large union workers are over paid for what they do. Unions in general have outlived their usefulness. They served a purpose when companies were exploiting workers in the early 1900's but since the mid 50's they have done nothing except foster lazy overpaid workers.

I'm glad you are in a position to determine what a person should make for a certain job.We are not discussing people making $14 an hour we are discussing people just barely making the minimun wage. All people who dislike unions always point out how they no longer feal there is a need for them. It's a pity you choose to lump union workers in with lazy people. Does that mean that non-union people never have a lazy one amoung them?

If blue collar workers in certain states can't survive financially in that state without the aid of a union then they should move to a cheaper state. Too often I hear stories of the high cost of living in places like New York City and people complaining about not being able to live on the salary they make there, well guess what the US is a big country and in many places outside mega-pricey cities a person can live quite well on a lot less money.

The fact is you accepted that unions protect lazy workers, But unions are ruled by the workers so when a lazy worker is protected its a reflection of the all the union members. If the majority of the union members had "good work ethics" they wouldn't have put all the protections into their union contracts that make the lazy workers untouchable.

I think someone else already addressed the pack up and move thing. I certainly agree with their post certainly not yours. Although I believe you have compassion for people who try to work, and make a living rather than take government handouts. Lawyers are appointed for murders when they can not affored one. Are you saying that the Government, which is really just us, support murder. Same thing as a Union business agent. If a lazy worker gets fired he goes in front of a panel with both union, and company people on it. His case is presented, and they decide. If they can't decide then it goes in front of a arbitrator for the final say, case closed. Yes union pilots make a lot of money, and they are worth every penny of it. Do you realize how many people trust their lives to them every day? Do you know how many hours, and what skills or involved in becoming a commercial pilot? I'm sure you do you seem well educated. Non-union Doctors make millions of dollars every year. Should I now decide that non-union workers will be the end of the world, and everyone should be forced in joining the union? For some reason you see a lot of people complaining about unions when they really only have preconcieved notions about them. The unions are not perfect, and they do mess up sometimes, but they are not the evil some people would have you believe. That's really unimportant now that the membership has decided to accept Disneys offer. That is what being in a union is about.

 

[Deadmanwalking]

I'm glad you are in a position to determine what a person should make for a certain job.We are not discussing people making $14 an hour we are discussing people just barely making the minimun wage. All people who dislike unions always point out how they no longer feal there is a need for them. It's a pity you choose to lump union workers in with lazy people. Does that mean that non-union people never have a lazy one amoung them?
I think someone else already addressed the pack up and move thing. I certainly agree with their post certainly not yours. Although I believe you have compassion for people who try to work, and make a living rather than take government handouts. Lawyers are appointed for murders when they can not affored one. Are you saying that the Government, which is really just us, support murder. Same thing as a Union business agent. If a lazy worker gets fired he goes in front of a panel with both union, and company people on it. His case is presented, and they decide. If they can't decide then it goes in front of a arbitrator for the final say, case closed. Yes union pilots make a lot of money, and they are worth every penny of it. Do you realize how many people trust their lives to them every day? Do you know how many hours, and what skills or involved in becoming a commercial pilot? I'm sure you do you seem well educated. Non-union Doctors make millions of dollars every year. Should I now decide that non-union workers will be the end of the world, and everyone should be forced in joining the union? For some reason you see a lot of people complaining about unions when they really only have preconcieved notions about them. The unions are not perfect, and they do mess up sometimes, but they are not the evil some people would have you believe. That's really unimportant now that the membership has decided to accept Disneys offer. That is what being in a union is about.

Uh... your rambling and not really making a point... I think your pro-union though... Okay... Then I only offer one thing to ponder, would America's auto manufacturers be slowly going bankrupt if they didn't have unions? I doubt it... but ponder that question... you'll quickly find that in manufacturing unions have been but a nail in their coffin.

 

[mkt]

Uh... your rambling and not really making a point... I think your pro-union though... Okay... Then I only offer one thing to ponder, would America's auto manufacturers be slowly going bankrupt if they didn't have unions? I doubt it... but ponder that question... you'll quickly find that in manufacturing unions have been but a nail in their coffin.

Personally, if they made a fuel efficient product to compete with the onslaught of japanese imports in the 1970's during the oil crisis, they wouldn't be going bankrupt today.

If they spent time and money designing a full range products that consumers want, rather than one 'glory' model to carry a range of mediocre products and badge engineered clones, they wouldn't be going bankrupt today.

Those are two possibilities, not only the Unions are at fault.

 

[rtiller]

I'm glad you are in a position to determine what a person should make for a certain job.We are not discussing people making $14 an hour we are discussing people just barely making the minimun wage. All people who dislike unions always point out how they no longer feal there is a need for them. It's a pity you choose to lump union workers in with lazy people. Does that mean that non-union people never have a lazy one amoung them?

If there is a non-union worker who is lazy and not doing his job he can be let go for it. He doesn't, nor should he, get the backing of a group of people to say you can't fire him because he is a member of our group and if you want to were going to make you go through a lengthy, and possibly expensive process, to do so.

Oh and by the way he is in a position to determine what a person makes for a certain job...he is a consumer, just like you and me. For the most part we drive market prices and wages through supply and demand. In my opinion THE AMERICAN WAY.

And people just barely making minimum wage should be OK...they're not making less than minimum wage. That's why we have minimum wage. If there are enough possible candidates for a job that a company doesn't have to offer above minimum wage why should they? They offer money, possibly some vacation and/or sick time, maybe health care (which is costing employees more because it is costing companies more) based on what the market shows they need to offer to fill the position.

 

[CBOMB]

Uh... your rambling and not really making a point... I think your pro-union though... Okay... Then I only offer one thing to ponder, would America's auto manufacturers be slowly going bankrupt if they didn't have unions? I doubt it... but ponder that question... you'll quickly find that in manufacturing unions have been but a nail in their coffin.

Excellent job of avoiding answering any questions that I brought up in my post. I take it you are anti-union, boy that makes us both so perceptive. I suggest you look at the many reasons that American auto sales started to decline back in the 70's. Also the major decline of Enron in present day or the decline of any non-union company, since you seem to blame unions for the ills of the business world. This was just a simple little discussion about the possibility of a strike at WDW not the good, and bad of unions, until certain people decided to make it an issue.

If there is a non-union worker who is lazy and not doing his job he can be let go for it. He doesn't, nor should he, get the backing of a group of people to say you can't fire him because he is a member of our group and if you want to were going to make you go through a lengthy, and possibly expensive process, to do so.

Oh and by the way he is in a position to determine what a person makes for a certain job...he is a consumer, just like you and me. For the most part we drive market prices and wages through supply and demand. In my opinion THE AMERICAN WAY.

And people just barely making minimum wage should be OK...they're not making less than minimum wage. That's why we have minimum wage. If there are enough possible candidates for a job that a company doesn't have to offer above minimum wage why should they? They offer money, possibly some vacation and/or sick time, maybe health care (which is costing employees more because it is costing companies more) based on what the market shows they need to offer to fill the position.

Your reasoning simply far outreaches my ability to carry on a respectful conversation with you. If that is how you truly feel enjoy your life.

 

[rtiller]

Your reasoning simply far outreaches my ability to carry on a respectful conversation with you. If that is how you truly feel enjoy your life.

Wow. I didn't realize my opinion and experience on a subject was going to make it difficult for you to "talk" to me. That's OK though. I've seen this thread before (everytime the union at Disney votes) and it goes nowhere.