Cast member strike vote, June 6, 2007

[majortom1981]

Ahhh... outsourcing... The ultimate red herring... Can you tell me the two areas that have really been outsourced, including their management positions? Every cries out "OUTSOURCING" because they are looking to blame others for their own problems (See personal responsibility, above)...
Fact - No theme park job has been given over to outsourcing
Fact - Everyone who was working in an outsourced job was offered a job at another Disney location (the whole point of outsourcing bell services and resort third shift custodial was to free up those cast members for other jobs around WDW)

So, how does outsourcing affect upward mobility?

Yes I can the IT section. There was a big thing on how Disney fired all their IT people and outsourced them to IBM and also I think a part of their cleaning crews was outsourced also.

Also disney is slowly outsoucing their food workers also as shown in an article about disney outsoucing one of the company cafaterias.

 

[Jimmy Thick]

Well, with my experience with middle and upper management, I say go on strike, I'll find someone to replace you in a heartbeat. It was funny when I would have people complain about how little they made, I would always tell them I could hire somebody better for less if they want and fire them. Then I would hire someone new, and move a better worker to the same job as the person complaining.

Funny, they would always stop their yapping. Ah, I used to love working retail.....

But, a strike, in my opinion, will harm the strikers more than Disney. You will come back with your tails between your legs defeated, you will be easily replaced by the kids getting off for summer break, I would plan this better, it looks redundant.

 

[brainpile3000]

Um, I never said any such thing. Perhaps you didn't understand me.

Disney pays the CPers just about base minimum wage. However, you NEVER SEE THAT because Disney automatically deducts your dorm fee from it. When I was offered a position there years ago, it worked out to something like $3.50 an hour after they took just that housing fee out.

I would have barely been able to eat on that, let alone get gas or other necessities.

Well where do you think the money they took out for your dorm would have gone if Disney didnt provide it for you?

Also, am I understanding that they provide your food too? Thats another part of your income too if thats the case....

The CP'ers should realize that they will be making crap when they come into the job. If not, thats their own fault--stay in school.

Perhaps everyone missed the fact that Business Week named Disney the number one place to start a career in 2006....

 

[EMThompsen]

Me too. If they don't pay a living wage... find another job that does... Unions really really irritate me... They served a purpose once upon a time...but those days are past. Now they just try to paint everyoen with the same broad brush... those that work hard those that don't... Those that have aspirations and ambition in their jobs...and those that struggle to even reach the heights of mediocrity.

I believe in pay for performance... not guaranteed raises just given a span of time... Merit based pay for each individual beats massive contract negotiations that treat employees in bulk.

Okay...anyhow...I just had to add my two cents.

I like your two cents. There are members of my union who couldn't find their way out of a paper bag and yet they're union members.I've worked hard to get to the level I am at. I've paid my dues ...literally. I could live without the union as long as managment pays a decent wage... & there's the rub. So when it comes to trying to get a decent wage my union is good for that.

Good luck you guys. I hope things work out for the best.

 

[AEfx]

Well where do you think the money they took out for your dorm would have gone if Disney didnt provide it for you?

/sigh

I'm not here to argue about CPers and fairness. I simply mentioned that the low incentive and the over use of them as employees, replacing regular workers, is part of the problem. I'm just presenting the facts. Believe it's right or wrong for them to do so, I don't care.

Also, am I understanding that they provide your food too? Thats another part of your income too if thats the case....

Not sure where you got that, but it is absolutely not true. Again, my point in bringing it up is simply that after what Disney takes out of you, and then you pay for your own food, these kids end up with bupkus which is FINE, but again, directly relates to how invested these people are in their jobs. Personally, when I was offered an "internship" with them, I did the math, and there is no way I could have survived and been able to eat AND fuel my car on what they were paying. So many CPers have to have an outside source of income (another job, mommy and daddy, or savings), effectively losing money by working for Disney, all for the "magical" experience of cleaning up dirty tables in your grand "internshp".

The CPers are a symptom, not the problem. The problem is overall Disney pays for crap and attracts crap employees. You get what you pay for.

The CP'ers should realize that they will be making crap when they come into the job. If not, thats their own fault--stay in school.

LOL, they are still in school. That's a requirement. Disney tells you about these "internships" which are really nothing of the sort. You are correct - hopefully they are smart enough to realize what they were getting into. I sure did, which is why I stayed clear of the program.

However, you and another poster seem to be missing my point entirely and my mentioning that Disney relies much more on these workers than before was simply to illustrate that there are labor shortages at Disney for regular employees. Disney loves the CPers because they get away with treating them worse, paying them less, giving them less benefits (none at all, really) and they aren't in a "union".

And that is just another spoke in the wheel of why the service at Disney has gone down front-of-the-line.

AEfx

 

[Enderikari]

Yes I can the IT section. There was a big thing on how Disney fired all their IT people and outsourced them to IBM and also I think a part of their cleaning crews was outsourced also.

Also disney is slowly outsoucing their food workers also as shown in an article about disney outsoucing one of the company cafaterias.

Wait, IT has been outsourced? I am sure that DIS (Disney Information Systems) will be shocked to hear that... Did it happen today? Oh wait, IT (or in this case, DIS) wasn't outsourced, their phone tree was.

And Aramark has been in charge of Cast Member Cafeteria's for longer than 7 years... That can't be what everyone is complaining about now, can it? Really...?

 

[brainpile3000]

/sigh

However, you and another poster seem to be missing my point entirely and my mentioning that Disney relies much more on these workers than before was simply to illustrate that there are labor shortages at Disney for regular employees. Disney loves the CPers because they get away with treating them worse, paying them less, giving them less benefits (none at all, really) and they aren't in a "union".

And that is just another spoke in the wheel of why the service at Disney has gone down front-of-the-line.

AEfx

Well now that you spell it out I agree entirely with the fact that they over rely on CPers. But they can get away with treating them "worse" because they are temporary 'interns.'

You're right though about service suffering because of this. If I had my way I'd cut back on CPers and get more traditional employees. But then again, the numbers in the park still continue to grow, so whats the point? Until they start seeing something like declining numbers I doubt any major moves like that will be made.

(And you're dead on about the CP being a sham. I was faced with the same decision you were and made that decision real quick.)

 

[majortom1981]

Wait, IT has been outsourced? I am sure that DIS (Disney Information Systems) will be shocked to hear that... Did it happen today? Oh wait, IT (or in this case, DIS) wasn't outsourced, their phone tree was.

And Aramark has been in charge of Cast Member Cafeteria's for longer than 7 years... That can't be what everyone is complaining about now, can it? Really...?

There are two seperate articles on the matter. One states that 400 members of IT were handed pink slips. so are you sure IT wasnt outsourced ? The article states that IBM now runs Disney IT inside the park and that the IT people work for IBM and not Disney. IF the article is wrong please explain to me how its wrong.

here is from one of the many sites that reported it back in 2005

"According to the Orlando Sentinel, Disney will let go of 1,000 IT staffers (about one-third of Disney's total IT department) and distribute these outplaced workers to IBM and Affiliated Computer Services (ACS). These workers will likely take on similar roles at IBM or ACS.

IT job cuts, which is expected to begin in mid-July, will affect Disney employees in Orlando, Los Angeles and New York. Disney has not yet reported on the number of IT staff that will become jobless.

The Orlando Sentinel reported: "Some employees, including those who work within the IT department but don't hold technical positions, may be offered jobs elsewhere within Disney or will be laid off, the company told workers. Others may be hired by ACS or IBM on a short-term basis, ranging from 90 days to 12 months, at which time they would be eligible for a severance package depending on their length of employment."

"

This was in response to moving up within the company. IF they did do this then it would be harder to move into IT considering this states that atleast some of disneys IT section is not run by disney .

 

[sophiesmom]

Um, I never said any such thing. Perhaps you didn't understand me.

Disney pays the CPers just about base minimum wage. However, you NEVER SEE THAT because Disney automatically deducts your dorm fee from it. When I was offered a position there years ago, it worked out to something like $3.50 an hour after they took just that housing fee out.

I would have barely been able to eat on that, let alone get gas or other necessities. That's why so many of these kids, who were sold on the "Disney experience!" didn't realize that their semester or summer at Disney was going to be doing the crappiest jobs imaginable and making absolute crap. That's why so many of them have such horrible attitudes. It's simply a way for Disney to get super-cheap labor.

So I never said "by law" they should get anything. What I did say is that that situation leads to employees with crappy attitudes, and each and every year Disney relies more and more on them because they can't attract enough real employees.

Right, wrong, principle, sminciple...it's so simple it gives me a headache, LOL. Pay crap = get crap service. Why do people think that "you get what you pay for" doesn't apply to employees, just like it does anything else?

AEfx

I am sorry but I think you are a little off on this. I was on the college program back in 1994 and was a lifeguard. I remeber having plenty off money left over after my rent was deducted.

 

[Enderikari]

Its not wrong, just misguided...
Yes, IT was outsourced, but the company that does the business hired about 95% of the 400 people with pink slips from Disney back. Regardless, the IT folks that were outsourced were not in any real decision-making status, which is run by an area of the Disney company (and got most of the other 5%) IT does the grunt work, the fixing of networking problems among cast computers, replacing printer cables, password resets, you know, the stuff regular people kind of sleep walk through.

 

[majortom1981]

Its not wrong, just misguided...
Yes, IT was outsourced, but the company that does the business hired about 95% of the 400 people with pink slips from Disney back. Regardless, the IT folks that were outsourced were not in any real decision-making status, which is run by an area of the Disney company (and got most of the other 5%) IT does the grunt work, the fixing of networking problems among cast computers, replacing printer cables, password resets, you know, the stuff regular people kind of sleep walk through.

Ok but i was just stating that because if disney keeps outsourcing things like that then it would be harder to move up through the company because you would be working for that and not disney.

Now if there is a strike I would think it would make disney outsource more jobs and hurt the union in the long run wouldn't it?

 

[ImaYoyo]

On my CP I typically had 160 bucks left over after taxes and rent. That's PLENTY for a college kid to live off of. More so then I had on campus anyway. And if i chose to pick up a day of overtime, that would leave me with 250 dollars.

And the college program is what you make of it. Cheap labor? Sure can be. An opportunity for young college students to network with some amazing people? Can be that too. On my college program I had a one-on-one with Al W., Lee C. and Reggie W. and Ray W. They were all amazing experiences that I wouldn't change for the world, and have allowed me to be where I am today, living where I live, Driving what I drive and making the magic I love to make.

Is it for everyone? No. Is it a great way to blow off a semester and have some fun? Sure! Can it be a waste of time? If you make it that way. Is it profitable? Not financially. Does it pay more or the same than most internships? Yes and no. Does it provide more opportunity than most internships? YES YES YES!

 

[Enderikari]

Ok but i was just stating that because if disney keeps outsourcing things like that then it would be harder to move up through the company because you would be working for that and not disney.

Now if there is a strike I would think it would make disney outsource more jobs and hurt the union in the long run wouldn't it?

Two points -

If you wanted to move up in IT and still work for Disney, its more than possible, because Disney has departments which are available to more skilled technicians, which goes back to my other point, if a cast members wishes to move up, get an education (which Disney does a wonderful job of helping with)


Secondly, if there were a strike, then yes, Disney would have to outsource more jobs, which would hurt the unions in the long run, but would hurt Disney much more in the short run, think of having to train bus drivers on the intricate routes, maintenance staff on the complicated ride mechanics, and so on and so forth...
All that money for training, for temp cast members who don't know the job as well as the veterans, for only the duration of the strike.

 

[AEfx]

Well now that you spell it out I agree entirely with the fact that they over rely on CPers. But they can get away with treating them "worse" because they are temporary 'interns.'

You're right though about service suffering because of this. If I had my way I'd cut back on CPers and get more traditional employees. But then again, the numbers in the park still continue to grow, so whats the point? Until they start seeing something like declining numbers I doubt any major moves like that will be made.

(And you're dead on about the CP being a sham. I was faced with the same decision you were and made that decision real quick.)

LOL well I am glad I could explain myself a little better. In no way am I saying "oh, look at the poor CPer...", just illustrating that what once was a supplementary program is now being relied upon for a VERY large percentage of employees (I recall reading the upper 30%'s awhile back - anyone know better? I'm curious now...) and because of how the situation is set up those workers aren't going to be your most magical.

I am sorry but I think you are a little off on this. I was on the college program back in 1994 and was a lifeguard. I remeber having plenty off money left over after my rent was deducted.

A lot can change in 13 years.

To begin with, Orlando is a much more expensive place today than it was then, just to live in. Yet wages at WDW haven't gone up at the same rate.

I had a friend who did the lifeguard program, and I believe their pay is a bit different in the first place, but I sat down with a calculator and the pay scale Disney sent me. This was in the summer of 2001 when I was offered a position. They were offering minimum wage, and the housing cost was a signifigant percentage of that (I wanna say when I ran the figures it was upwards of 40-45%). I was even lucky enough to be offered a position in attractions (no way would I be doing the other jobs they offered - if I wanted to work in fast food I'd go to McDonalds where the pay is better and they don't demand 1/4 part of what Disney does of you).

Regardless, I'm sure many people do just fine on the CP. I know some people are huge fans of the program. But the fact remains they are they WORST paid Disney employees, are temporary to boot, and are usually the worst at dealing with guests because of all those factors. If you know you are leaving in a couple of months, you aren't getting paid for crap, and you are having a bad day - there is little incentive for a college kid to try to be "magical".

Again, though, this isn't about the CP program. The over-use of the CP program is a symptom of Disney not wanting to pay for quality regular employees, and directly relates to the complaints people have about the quality of service at WDW. The CP program is MUCH MUCH larger now than it was in 1994, and a much different program (according to anyone I know who has actually done it).

AEfx

 

[mary219]

"One problem with that. Disney has been outsourcing more and more so you really cant work your way up that much anymore."

This is the problem in general in most "blue collar jobs",Jobs that we used to rely on are now outsourced(and most of the time in most industries,outsource means a type of contractor-who can hire whoever he feels with no regard to union standards or regulations...now,i realize many people are not for unions,but i am.I think for your average working person ,who does a laborer/customer service type of job,without a union to negotiate for you,large companies will do whatever they please and their ceos get paid MILLIONS of dollars a year.
Unfortunately,Many union heads have become exactly as their managerial counterparts,worried about their bottom line,not the workers they represent and they will negotiate contracts that will allow them to keep favor with the companies and not the workers who gave them the power in the first place.By allowing outsourcing, jobs that our youth used to do that would train them for a future are no longer available for them(ie:electricians,carpenters,mason work,even landscaping,dishwashing,etc.)
In the past,kids would get these jobs as a youth and that would be the field alot of them would fall into(sorry,not every kid wants to go to college and be a professional,a lot of kids dont know what they want,but,in the past a summer job with a plumber(as an example)would give a teenager some insight into a career,and becoming a master plumber would be what a kid ,not going to college, would make his or her goal.
A decent job with a decent future to provide a decent life as you got older.Now,its got to college or your screwed unless your mom/dad can provide the resources for a career that doesnt require a fortune in education money for a job that may never pay you well.
And,yes,i agree that some kids think they are to good to be the dishwasher,but many dont.
In the past, many people (im talking 30 years old and up)just found a career by a partime teenage job.Lets face it, not everybody is cut out for higher education,but in the past,it didnt mean there was no future for you,now,its almost impossible to get a decent paying job,have some benefits and some retirement funds without higher education and even that doesnt guarantee you anything.
I dont know,it just seems that todays youth are not given the opportunity to find out what they are good at by trial and error,and I blame things like outsourcing .
I dont think any one should have something handed to them for nothing,but c'mon,a lot of these companies who nickel and dime their blue collar workers have so much in profits every year and yet,america sits back and allows these companies to basically hire illegal workers who will work for little pay with long hours in dangerous work conditions(here in NYC,pretty much every week,a news report will be of some type of wall collapse on a construction site and a worker is injured or killed and then it will be reported that the building did not have proper permits,the worker was a guy trying to make some money to send back home,and its not the workers to blame its the companies that hire the contractors and turn a blind eye to the work practices of the contractor because it saves them some cash,the companies hide from the legal issues of it by ,OUTSOURCING.
And its every major company,dont kid yourself,it gets more and more out of control every year and it is having greater impact on the future of our youth and i truly believe we will be sorry as a nation the longer we ignore it.
And thats all i have to say about that(not really,i could go on for hours but most people probably tuned out words ago )Bada bing bada boom

 

[OneLuckyMom]

As a union member, I can tell you that helth care costs what it costs. Each person gets coverage for a certain amount that needs to be paid to the insurer. The company can't create a double standard. I can tell you I make significantly less than some of my co-workers and administrators, yet we all pay the same for our benefits. You have a valid complaint with Disney Co. on many issues, not on this one. Its standard practice.

And I work for a company where those with higher salaries pay a larger percentage of their premiums, while those with lower salaries pay a smaller percentage. The premiums are the same for everyone, but for those at the lowest pay scales the company pays 80% of it and for those at the highest end of the payscales the company only pays 50%.

A company can do what they WANT to do here. There is no such thing as a "standard" way of doing things these days when it comes to healthcare premiums. Every company I've worked for has had a different way of doing it.

 

[JWG]

Wow, this thread has derailed.

I'm interested in the details of the Disney contract situation and all, but the personal warfare pro and con union is spinning quickly out of control. I guess this isn't really political debate or anything but still.. :shrug:

Best of luck, look forward to hearing the results, can't we go back to debating when the wand will come down now?? :wave:

 

[k.hunter30]

On the topic of CP - isn't the CP considered an internship? I'd say more than half the internships at my University were completely unpaid. :shrug:

 

[jasonfc13]

Comment from a former CP

I would typically just read these posts and then just forget about it, but I have a little bit of an issue with some of the comments being made by some of the CM's. First of all CP's are the lowest paid employees at Disney World. I don't think that the contract being offered to you is fair because it is basically asking you to take a cut in pay because of the increase of healthcare costs that the company is asking you to pay. However, all of us who work in corporate america know that your healthcare costs do not and should not increase as your annual salary increases. So yes all other companies in america charge a VP the same charge for family healthcare coverage as a paperpushing employee. The real reason that I am making this post is that I read a comment that stated that you can make more money "starting" at McDonald's then starting at Disney World. That may be true, but my comment to that would be when you top out at the pay scale you make decent money, from what I remember the top pay for a merchandise cast member when I was there in 2002 was around $14 or $15 per hour. For the work that they are asking you to do and the additional perks you get (free admission for yourself whenever, your family and friends are able to come to the parks for free quite a bit, and various other discounts) that is very good pay. So like I said you do deserve to get a raise and the raise should not be taken up by the increased healthcare costs, but some of the comments being made are pushing being impractical.

 

[disneyjesus]

Just want to say that I fully support CM's right to organize and bargain for a fair contract...including their right to strike.