News Cars-Themed Attractions at Magic Kingdom

[abaker1975]

If TSI actually was busy... or if the riverboat actually passed scenes of substance... maybe Disney would treasure them more. Disney has plenty of land around... but land WITHIN your existing theme park that is under utilized is far more interesting than land somewhere else on property.

I do understand what you are saying but I do think there is value in the ambience that the ROA gives to the overall feel of Liberty Square and Frontierland even without going on the attraction. The kinetic energy of the boat going round is also something that adds to the land for people not even on the attraction.

I know this will not be enough for execs to leave the space and turn into a more profit making area but I do think it will negatively affect the feel from what it is now - even if you "do" the attractions or not.

Hopefully it won't but I just have visions in my head of that whole area becoming a "concrete jungle" and will really change the vibe of the areas around it.

 

[Quietmouse]

I do understand what you are saying but I do think there is value in the ambience that the ROA gives to the overall feel of Liberty Square and Frontierland even without going on the attraction. The kinetic energy of the boat going round is also something that adds to the land for people not even on the attraction.

I know this will not be enough for execs to leave the space and turn into a more profit making area but I do think it will negatively affect the feel from what it is now - even if you "do" the attractions or not.

Hopefully it won't but I just have visions in my head of that whole area becoming a "concrete jungle" and will really change the vibe of the areas around it.

It honestly could go either way.

If it goes right, with the concept art depicting elevation changes, forests, water falls, streams, etc then this could be as natural of a fit as roa was.

 

[Bocabear]

It honestly could go either way.

If it goes right, with the concept art depicting elevation changes, forests, water falls, streams, etc then this could be as natural of a fit as roa was.

That's the thing though... I don't know that I have faith that it will go the right way... It would need an awful lot of construction, landscape, waterscape, accessory set pieces etc to make it truly fit into the park scape without it looking like a big mistake....

 

[flynnibus]

I do understand what you are saying but I do think there is value in the ambience that the ROA gives to the overall feel of Liberty Square and Frontierland even without going on the attraction. The kinetic energy of the boat going round is also something that adds to the land for people not even on the attraction.

For sure - but can that kinetic energy and setting be replaced by something else? I hear what you are saying about the ROA and its why it's been such an anchor of the Castle park design for decades... but it's also a huge chunk of space. DL has been fighting this 'problem' with TSI for much longer than MK and neither have had great success revitalizing interest in the island or the River attractions with the new audiences of the era.

I mean..I loved the mall in the 80s... but I can't deny no one goes there now and it's being forced to change because memories alone don't keep the lights on.

When Disney takes out all the benches... pushes people to schedule every moment of their vacation.. and repeatedly tries to replace practical experiences with virtual stuff... why should anyone be surprised when audiences stop stopping to smell the flowers or taking in the scenery?

The concepts that were the backbone of ROA and TSI are nerfed to the point of not attracting much attention anymore. The ROA as a backdrop is a tough sell vs something that will drive tons of new sales and visitors.

But I think they should get rid of JC first

 

[James Alucobond]

But I think they should get ride of JC first

It’s for sure a ton of real estate for something they’ve now done better elsewhere on property, but it also still inexplicably always has a massively backed up queue.

 

[Quietmouse]

For sure - but can that kinetic energy and setting be replaced by something else? I hear what you are saying about the ROA and its why it's been such an anchor of the Castle park design for decades... but it's also a huge chunk of space. DL has been fighting this 'problem' with TSI for much longer than MK and neither have had great success revitalizing interest in the island or the River attractions with the new audiences of the era.

I mean..I loved the mall in the 80s... but I can't deny no one goes there now and it's being forced to change because memories alone don't keep the lights on.

When Disney takes out all the benches... pushes people to schedule every moment of their vacation.. and repeatedly tries to replace practical experiences with virtual stuff... why should anyone be surprised when audiences stop stopping to smell the flowers or taking in the scenery?

The concepts that were the backbone of ROA and TSI are nerfed to the point of not attracting much attention anymore. The ROA as a backdrop is a tough sell vs something that will drive tons of new sales and visitors.

But I think they should get ride of JC first

That’s an over reach.

I think any first time visitor is gonna to think the boat and roa are cool and different. Once you do it though there’s no real insensitive to do it again unless your purposefully trying to stall time.

I always appreciated its beauty but it was never a must do thing for me at least.

 

[Bocabear]

River boat now suffers from losing the burning settlers cabin and other riverside show scenes...it always needed more....and would have been much more popular with more to see... Much like the train which lacks show settings... Yes, if there is nothing to look at, people will stop going on these attractions. I would rather see them invest a little money to freshen these attractions up and keep them popular rather then completely lose them forever.....Because realistically....after they remove the river and boat, don't think the train won't be on the table....

 

[Incomudro]

That's the thing though... I don't know that I have faith that it will go the right way... It would need an awful lot of construction, landscape, waterscape, accessory set pieces etc to make it truly fit into the park scape without it looking like a big mistake....

There was a time I would have trusted Disney to get it right.

 

[Bocabear]

There was a time I would have trusted Disney to get it right.

Me too! I have been a huge Disney fan all my life...but they are finally "tipping the bucket"....

 

[erasure fan1]

forever.....Because realistically....after they remove the river and boat, don't think the train won't be on the table....

Realistically nothing at this point is off the table with Disney. The train at least has a function of getting to different areas of the park. But it does fit into two of the 3 check boxes (problematic, expensive to run, no ip) for removal. So I can't see it not being expensive to maintain and operate, and it has no recognizable ip.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

DL has been fighting this 'problem' with TSI for much longer than MK and neither have had great success revitalizing interest in the island or the River attractions with the new audiences of the era.

I don’t have numbers, but I have spent lots of time at Disneyland park and anecdotally the riverboat and sailing ship are popular - to the point that I’ve been on the riverboat when it was at “comfortable” capacity - meaning it was difficult to find a good place to stand and enjoy the views.

I think that’s partially because of the shorter run time which makes the time commitment form the guest shorter and also it gives guests a better chance to ride. If I walk past the dock at LS and the boat isn’t there and isn’t boarding, I’m gonna keep walking. At Disneyland, during the day there is always a boat boarding or just coming in to board when both are running.

 

[Quietmouse]

I don’t have numbers, but I have spent lots of time at Disneyland park and anecdotally the riverboat and sailing ship are popular - to the point that I’ve been on the riverboat when it was at “comfortable” capacity - meaning it was difficult to find a good place to stand and enjoy the views.

I think that’s partially because of the shorter run time which makes the time commitment form the guest shorter and also it gives guests a better chance to ride. If I walk past the dock at LS and the boat isn’t there and isn’t boarding, I’m gonna keep walking. At Disneyland, during the day there is always a boat boarding or just coming in to board when both are running.

From what I understand Disney land guests are more local, versus Disney world. There is a huge attachment to their roa and more traditions that go with it.

In Disney lane The canoes with the steam boats is super cool

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

From what I understand Disney land guests are more local, versus Disney world.

Yes and no…. That’s a common excuse for why things are different on both coasts. In this case I don’t think that’s the reason, I think it’s the shorter run time which reduces the time commitment for the guest and increases the chances that a guest will be able to step aboard quickly.

It also contradicts what you claim -

I think any first time visitor is gonna to think the boat and roa are cool and different. Once you do it though there’s no real insensitive to do it again unless your purposefully trying to stall time.

 

[mickEblu]

For sure - but can that kinetic energy and setting be replaced by something else?

Not when they are adding a ring of trees around the attraction because they don't feel cartoon cars jive with the rest of Frontierland and Liberty Square. That alone should tell them, "you know what? Maybe we should put this Beyond Big Thunder where we originally said."

 

[flynnibus]

That’s an over reach.

What? That disney has codified everyone into park commandos vs the strolling type? Or ROA and TSI are nerfed to the point of not attracting much attention anymore?

Because pretty sure when you close everything or remove it... that's not a sign of banger action.

I think any first time visitor is gonna to think the boat and roa are cool and different. Once you do it though there’s no real insensitive to do it again unless your purposefully trying to stall time.

You're making a great case for it's presence... Not

If you get off an attraction once and your thought is 'no need for that anymore...' you've failed. These attractions are built to last a decade plus... 2-3 years of 'new' followed by 7+ of 'been there, done that' is a fail.

 

[James Alucobond]

Not when they are adding a ring of trees around the attraction because they don't feel cartoon cars jive with the rest of Frontierland and Liberty Square. That alone should tell them, "you know what? Maybe we should put this Beyond Big Thunder where we originally said."

Water features (streams, waterfalls, geysers) are kinetic elements that will exist outside the tree and rock barrier. I don't think they were talking about the cars.

Also, there would be sightline and thematic issues regardless of where it was situated as long as it was Big Thunder-adjacent.

 

[flynnibus]

River boat now suffers from losing the burning settlers cabin and other riverside show scenes...it always needed more....and would have been much more popular with more to see... Much like the train which lacks show settings... Yes, if there is nothing to look at, people will stop going on these attractions. I would rather see them invest a little money to freshen these attractions up and keep them popular rather then completely lose them forever.....Because realistically....after they remove the river and boat, don't think the train won't be on the table....

Agree - and this was what I was referring to as Disney removed more and more scenes from the ROA and activities from TSI. It became less and less interesting to drive people to invest their own time.

Over the last 10+ years Disney has proven it has no good answers to the ROA+TSI 'problem' to fill in replacements. Pirates at DL hasn't been a big winner. Disney hasn't put in a real 'play area' in a lifetime... and putting a few more low motion deer or wildlife figures hasn't been sufficient either.

MK versions of the river and train always suffered vs the DL versions.. and it's just gotten worse with the apathy towards those areas.

 

[Bocabear]

Water features (streams, waterfalls, geysers) are kinetic elements that will exist outside the tree and rock barrier. I don't think they were talking about the cars.

Also, there would be sightline and thematic issues regardless of where it was situated as long as it was Big Thunder-adjacent.

Are we confident that these things will be built? There was an awful lot in the EPCOT 2.0 plan that was a Go and was quietly cancelled... I am afraid they will level the land and tear out all of TSI and the river and then realize the demo was more expensive than anticipated and they no longer have the budget to build what they intended.... and all that beautiful set dressing for Frontierland will just become a tree berm in order to keep most of the Cars attraction intact....

 

[flynnibus]

I don’t have numbers, but I have spent lots of time at Disneyland park and anecdotally the riverboat and sailing ship are popular - to the point that I’ve been on the riverboat when it was at “comfortable” capacity - meaning it was difficult to find a good place to stand and enjoy the views.

Note I said "DL has been fighting this 'problem' with TSI for much longer than MK "

TSI - where DL tried the pirates conversion after removing the problematic fort. And it's been what over 15yrs since that change and that's been flat too after the new-ness wore off.

Disneylands ROA has always been better given that there basically is MORE there.. plus you had things like the canoes up until not too long ago. But now that the 'problematic' scenes of the ROA are nerfed... it's so much more hollow then it used to be. But still has more to think about than MK's version.

 

[flynnibus]

Not when they are adding a ring of trees around the attraction because they don't feel cartoon cars jive with the rest of Frontierland and Liberty Square. That alone should tell them, "you know what? Maybe we should put this Beyond Big Thunder where we originally said."

Well - judging before you even know what it will be... is on brand.