Stripes
Premium Member
-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
News Cars-Themed Attractions at Magic Kingdom
- Thread starter wdwmagic
- Start date
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
is this a real graph from Disney? Talk about stroking the CEO’s…. Ehhh… ego.
MagicEye99
Active Member
That's a very simplistic way of putting it. People hated DCA because, except for Soarin', California Screamin', and Grizzly River Run, all of the attractions were extremely underwhelming. It's no shocker that the Orange Stinger and Golden Vine Winery weren't drawing in crowds? It actually proves my point that original ideas, done right and in a timeless way, can be as impactful to guests as media IP-based attractions.
wannabeBelle
Well-Known Member
And yet when Epcot opened there wasnt any IP driven attractions and the park did well, as it was something new and unique. Also one of the IP to come out of that, Figment, is wildly popular today. IP or not, a good attraction is a good attraction. Marie
CoasterCowboy67
Well-Known Member
I doubt we have the 5-12 year old segment represented here
Well no, not if it’s a great ride. I don’t see Radiator Springs Racers or Flight of Passage or Midway Manía or many other examples aging out for a long, long time. and if they do age out or culturally unfit, clearly Disney isn’t afraid of a refresh ala Splash. I don’t think they see it as wasted investment
KDM31091
Well-Known Member
Exactly. Had DCA been done well and properly funded it would have been a success, despite the lack of IP. Unfortunately, cheap attractions like the Winery and Orange Stinger you mention, cheapened the whole park. Attendance wasn't good, and now it is just a hodgepodge IP mess.
Many classic and very popular Disney attractions are not IP based. They don't have to be IP based to be successful. The parks should have a balance.
DisneyHead123
Well-Known Member
Sure although I was making a different point in bringing it up.
Ghost93
Well-Known Member
Tom Sawyer is pretty much an IP....one that happened to slide into public domain by the time Disney got around to making it a theme park attraction. It just doesn't feel like one because it's a very old IP and is therefore seen as more of a classic and more "respectable." I imagine once Cars becomes old enough, it too will be viewed as more of a classic piece of Americana instead of a studio franchise.
Cars Land may feel like a corporate cash grab today, but 100 years from now it will be viewed as a charming relic of a bygone era and Lightning McQueen and Mater will be as revered and studied by educators as Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn.
Cars Land may feel like a corporate cash grab today, but 100 years from now it will be viewed as a charming relic of a bygone era and Lightning McQueen and Mater will be as revered and studied by educators as Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn.
flynnibus
Premium Member
The lack of Disney character was very much part of it too.. the park was full of hits, but people came in and did the hits and left. Disney aimed differently with DCA with a creative angle that was more aimed more mature and it flunked. The over the top puns everywhere.. the cheap hollywood... a pretty, but still extremely basic set of carnival rides with a bunch of non-ride stuff that people were one and dones for. It's no accident that character infusion was very much part of the DCA v2 plan including changing Cars Land to the Cars movie franchise, the rework of the pier, World of Color, changing of the entrance to the Carthay Theatre and working the rest of the entrance to support that.. trying to change it all to the California of the dawn of Walt Disney Studios. I mean, they put a statue of Walt in where before was a giant sun sculpture.
Disney character Fusion was a pillar of DCA v2 designs.
October82
Well-Known Member
I'm curious why you asked the question about what other people would do if you were planning to just restate your position in response? You're just restating that your personal preferences are for IP themed experiences. Mine aren't. And I don't think most high end hotel guests love IP decorations in their rooms either. So when you ask me how I'd run Disney, I'm going to say I'd run the company the way it was run for decades and that attracted me to spend money on the Disney Parks. I can also state unequivocally that I put my money where my mouth is - I spend a small fraction of what I once did on the Disney Parks.
In the scenario you outlined, I am the person betting a billion dollars and I don't have bosses to answer to beyond my bank account (or those of my shareholders). And if you ask me if I'm going to bet a billion dollars on Cars or Tokyo DisneySea/EPCOT Center, I'm going to pick the latter. Because I want two billion dollars, and another two billion after that, and so on and I think the design experts that I carefully hired from the best design colleges and poached from my competitors are a better judge of what people might want than simply going with what the marketing MBAs think is best.
(I'll listen to them too - I just don't think the former group needs to be subservient to the latter anymore than I think my movie studio creatives should be subservient to what marketing thinks is best - this is how we end up with Toy Story 5.)
el_super
Well-Known Member
A hodgepodge of IP mess... with higher attendance and revenue right?
And you know the Orange Stinger is still there right... they just slapped Mickey's face on it and called it a day. Somehow though that "saved" it in the eyes of the fans.
When that parked opened, most of the complaints against it were about the lack of Disney IP and things for kids to do. They moved quickly to add Bugs Land and Disney Junior, Aladdin, and swap Limo over to Monsters Inc as stop-gaps until they pulled the trigger on the 2007 announcement of Mermaid and Cars. Their focus on DCA has been IP driven since 2002, and there has been no sign of any change over the course of some 22 years of data.
Disstevefan1
Well-Known Member
TSI is really fun to explore, its just some folks never gave it a chance.
I hope I can get there before the walls and bulldozers show up as I want to go there one last time.
I also want to get on the riverboat one last time.
Some last times I did not know was the last time, like -
Horizons
The fountain of nations in EPCOT
Innoventions in EPCOT
Illuminations in EPCOT
Riding in the front of the monorail.
Mouse Gear in EPCOT.
The lights of Winder in EPCOT
I could go on....
A last time I missed a last time because I chose wrongly was when 45 was in office. I was just going to step in the doorway of HOP and at the last moment I chose the parade. I know I will never get that opportunity ever again as we pretty much know HOP will be destroyed.
There were last times we knew it was the last time -
My kid and I was on what could have been the last ride of Body Wars - it was just THE TWO of us on the ride.
The saddest of last times was, yes, the Osborne lights. Before we left for the last time, I stood at the end of the street and just took it all in for a few minutes, knowing I would never see it again.
I still miss it.
We now confirmed, nothing is sacred in WDW, so I recommend treat every attraction as its the last time you see it because it may well be the last time you see it.
I hope I can get there before the walls and bulldozers show up as I want to go there one last time.
I also want to get on the riverboat one last time.
Some last times I did not know was the last time, like -
Horizons
The fountain of nations in EPCOT
Innoventions in EPCOT
Illuminations in EPCOT
Riding in the front of the monorail.
Mouse Gear
in EPCOT.The lights of Winder in EPCOT
I could go on....
A last time I missed a last time because I chose wrongly was when 45 was in office. I was just going to step in the doorway of HOP and at the last moment I chose the parade. I know I will never get that opportunity ever again as we pretty much know HOP will be destroyed.
There were last times we knew it was the last time -
My kid and I was on what could have been the last ride of Body Wars - it was just THE TWO of us on the ride.
The saddest of last times was, yes, the Osborne lights. Before we left for the last time, I stood at the end of the street and just took it all in for a few minutes, knowing I would never see it again.
I still miss it.We now confirmed, nothing is sacred in WDW, so I recommend treat every attraction as its the last time you see it because it may well be the last time you see it.
Last edited:
el_super
Well-Known Member
I missed this the first time, but did want to quote it for truth since it's a good case for why Cars Land v2 will be a huge success.
Brer Panther
Well-Known Member
It's also worth noting that IP attractions have proven they can still be failures. Stitch's Great Escape, Under New Management Tiki Room, The Legend of Captain Jack Sparrow, and - most recently - the Galactic Starcruiser were all IP-based but were failures. And apparently Muppet-Vision 3D and Dinosaur, both IP-based rides, are unpopular enough for Disney to want to remove them.
...wait, is there a rumor flying around that they're gonna replace Disneyland's Mr. Toad?
Yes. This.
el_super
Well-Known Member
I'm sure EuroDisney would have been fine had he not built a river with TWO steamboats.
October82
Well-Known Member
This is what we call a 'junk chart' in my profession. Lots of choices (such as obscuring the y-axis) and picking specific percentage changes to make it look like revenue growth is way up. Including logos of specific IPs also makes it look like there's a causal relationship - good for PR but not good for understanding the business fundamentals.
If you take Parks & Resorts revenues pre-2012 and fit for revenue growth in inflation adjusted dollars, you get estimated 2024 revenues of something like ~$20-21 billion. Actual revenues are $24ish billion which is <$20 billion in inflation adjusted dollars, so right in line with expectations rather than reflecting significant IP driven increases.
This is hardly scientific (I could only easily grab a limited amount of data) but meant to illustrate why charts like this are misleading and how 'junk charts' can spin a narrative that the data doesn't actually support.
The real issue is that the tourism industry, in general, is way up in real terms. Is Disney capturing an increasing or decreasing share of global tourist dollars? Should we actually expect them to have grown revenues faster than the trend line shown? Or is growth right in line with inflation + the previous trend expected or unexpected (maybe macroeconomic factors should be pushing the parks into a downturn)? Charts like this don't answer (and can't) that.
Last edited:
Earlie the Pearlie
Well-Known Member
Well, no. If they had, as you said, “just slapped Mickey’s face on it and called it a day”, then I’m sure people would still have problems with it (I’m envisioning the same sphere with Mickey ears added or something?). Instead, they lovingly crafted a tribute to classic boardwalk swing rides, complete with trim and murals and yes, Mickey Mouse, but in the form of an accent, a flavor, to the attraction. IP did not redeem the Orange Stinger. Good design redeemed the Orange Stinger, with Mickey Mouse as a bonus. (Which of course worked fabulously with the retooled turn-of-the-century vision for Paradise Pier 2.0, which is now pretty much gone.) The same goes for the rest of California Adventure, or at least the 2012 version. It might have more IP now, but it is also better designed. And correlation is not causation, before anyone tries to argue this that way. But I digress.
osian
Well-Known Member
I'm just amazed how the many, many parks around the world manage to survive with original attractions when Disney is unable to do so, apparently.
The IP mandate isn't the result of any rational decision, it's an ideological pursuit and may actually be part of causing a decline. [EDIT, for clarity, a decline in the quality of the offering, e.g cartoon and movie overload, all feels a bit "samey", de-theming of resorts, starting to feel like Universal, homogenisation of merchandise]
The IP mandate isn't the result of any rational decision, it's an ideological pursuit and may actually be part of causing a decline. [EDIT, for clarity, a decline in the quality of the offering, e.g cartoon and movie overload, all feels a bit "samey", de-theming of resorts, starting to feel like Universal, homogenisation of merchandise]
Last edited:
October82
Well-Known Member
Several of which now do classic Disney better than Disney.
Centauri Space Station
Well-Known Member
It’s still a great restaurant with chance to meet rare characters