News Cars-Themed Attractions at Magic Kingdom

AidenRodriguez731

Active Member
I'm curious why you asked the question about what other people would do if you were planning to just restate your position in response? You're just restating that your personal preferences are for IP themed experiences. Mine aren't. And I don't think most high end hotel guests love IP decorations in their rooms either. So when you ask me how I'd run Disney, I'm going to say I'd run the company the way it was run for decades and that attracted me to spend money on the Disney Parks. I can also state unequivocally that I put my money where my mouth is - I spend a small fraction of what I once did on the Disney Parks.

In the scenario you outlined, I am the person betting a billion dollars and I don't have bosses to answer to beyond my bank account (or those of my shareholders). And if you ask me if I'm going to bet a billion dollars on Cars or Tokyo DisneySea/EPCOT Center, I'm going to pick the latter. Because I want two billion dollars, and another two billion after that, and so on and I think the design experts that I carefully hired from the best design colleges and poached from my competitors are a better judge of what people might want than simply going with what the marketing MBAs think is best.

(I'll listen to them too - I just don't think the former group needs to be subservient to the latter anymore than I think my movie studio creatives should be subservient to what marketing thinks is best - this is how we end up with Toy Story 5.)
I like how now we are just bad-faith comparing a single franchise with 2 lands to an entire theme park that also has IP in both... interesting point but I don't know why you made it.

Thats like saying I am going to bet on Magic Kingdom as a whole over the Frozen Ever After ride... like yeah? Obviously, thats not really a fair comparison. We aren't even comparing apples to oranges anymore. This is apples to a Private Open Bar Yacht.
 

October82

Well-Known Member
I like how now we are just bad-faith comparing a single franchise with 2 lands to an entire theme park that also has IP in both... interesting point but I don't know why you made it.

Thats like saying I am going to bet on Magic Kingdom as a whole over the Frozen Ever After ride... like yeah? Obviously, thats not really a fair comparison. We aren't even comparing apples to oranges anymore. This is apples to a Private Open Bar Yacht.
This is a misreading of my point - but to be honest, I should have been more clear - I’m saying I trust the designers of those parks to design an attraction more than I trust the marketing genius behind demolishing the RoA for Cars.
 

JD80

Well-Known Member
This is a misreading of my point - but to be honest, I should have been more clear - I’m saying I trust the designers of those parks to design an attraction more than I trust the marketing genius behind demolishing the RoA for Cars.

Marketing people aren't behind the demo of RoA. Your use of that derogative is telling.
 

AidenRodriguez731

Active Member
Saying that on stage and investing in a rebuild of Frontierland are very different things.

They aren’t literally rebuilding Frontierland. They are quite content to leave Big Thunder next to Cars. That’s a problem for me as someone who actually thinks Cars makes for a great land - at California Adventure, on an expansion pad, or in another park.
No offense but why would they rebuild Frontierland? The current attractions like I said do fit their new narrative. The layout is now:

Small settler town on the edge of the deeper forest/mountains of the American Wilderness currently giving a venue to a ragtag group of bears celebrating a tour.

A bayou area with a Princess exploring the wilderness to find animals for her band.

A large mountainous/forested landscape that is being traversed by cars exploring a new area to race in far from home.

A deserty area where an old gold miner set up camp to find his riches.

Each of these highlights a unique part of the American Wilderness and a unique biome. From the tropics to the temperate to the arid. That's a connecting theme. Exploration throughout America. Nothing in current Frontierland goes against that mission.
 

Quietmouse

Well-Known Member
No offense but why would they rebuild Frontierland? The current attractions like I said do fit their new narrative. The layout is now:

Small settler town on the edge of the deeper forest/mountains of the American Wilderness currently giving a venue to a ragtag group of bears celebrating a tour.

A bayou area with a Princess exploring the wilderness to find animals for her band.

A large mountainous/forested landscape that is being traversed by cars exploring a new area to race in far from home.

A deserty area where an old gold miner set up camp to find his riches.

Each of these highlights a unique part of the American Wilderness and a unique biome. From the tropics to the temperate to the arid. That's a connecting theme. Exploration throughout America. Nothing in current Frontierland goes against that mission.

I agree.

I think people are so upset about losing roa that it’s clouding their judgement.
 

October82

Well-Known Member
Marketing people aren't behind the demo of RoA. Your use of that derogative is telling.
Telling that I don’t think highly of marketing MBAs?

I don’t.

(Although, to be fair, Josh D'Amaro has only worked as a marketer for most of his career. He doesn't actually have an MBA.)
 
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October82

Well-Known Member
No offense but why would they rebuild Frontierland? The current attractions like I said do fit their new narrative. The layout is now:

Small settler town on the edge of the deeper forest/mountains of the American Wilderness currently giving a venue to a ragtag group of bears celebrating a tour.

A bayou area with a Princess exploring the wilderness to find animals for her band.

A large mountainous/forested landscape that is being traversed by cars exploring a new area to race in far from home.

A deserty area where an old gold miner set up camp to find his riches.

Each of these highlights a unique part of the American Wilderness and a unique biome. From the tropics to the temperate to the arid. That's a connecting theme. Exploration throughout America. Nothing in current Frontierland goes against that mission.
Ah, yes, the majestic jeep wranglers roaming the American west. Exactly what I think of when I envision the Bayou or the gold and silver booms.

Such immersion.
 
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el_super

Well-Known Member
We’re comparing the Rivers of America to the Orange Stinger and Paradise Pier 1.0 Lol. Man, some people (that rhyme with Pooper) will say anything.

Well people stopped talking about the river some time ago... probably because they've made their peace with it and moved on to acceptance. There wasn't ever going to be this big upswell of support for keeping it.

Disney knows what people like and the river just ain't it.
 

Quietmouse

Well-Known Member
If this new Cars attraction fits in so well with Frontierland and Liberty Square why are they building a ring of trees around it?

Checkmate.

We are told not to look at the concept art as a realistic depiction of the final product.

Considering the frontier land isn’t even Disney world but Paris then my guest there will be some revisions.
 

Incomudro

Well-Known Member
In all fairness, many of those have massive history at Disney parks and are their own IP due to their history. When a family visits Magic Kingdom, they want to do these because of the history behind them.

But if a family is coming to Disney, they expect to see the characters their kids watch and they watched growing up in the rides and in M&Gs. There's certainly room for non-IP attractions, and I think Disney misses the mark by not creating any, but families are visiting with more expectation to be immersed in Disney stories, not a random ride that has nothing to do with Disney.

Agreed - I'm 25 and a massive supporter of the classics. I recognize their value and uniqueness. While I appreciate the Disney media I grew up with, and do enjoy their presence in the Parks, there needs to be a balance. I'm more impressed by an original idea, like PoTC or the original EPCOT Center dark rides, than I am of anything media IP-related that's opened in the Parks during my lifetime. And it's not even just "boring" rides - Everest is a more engaging experience to me than something like Tron or GotG (which I won't deny is a great coaster). I've been engaged with EPCOT Center lore, for example, since I was 10 - I took my profile picture when I was like 13 because I was enamored by the history of the Imagination Pavilion.

TWDC is not solely pushing its IP mandate because "it's what people like" - clearly people "like" Marvel, Princesses, Star Wars (arguable, not opening that can here), Pixar, and all of the the other media Disney puts out. But they clearly also like Park original ideas. As it stands, that's the issue though; there is no balance. It's just a deluge of attractions ONLY based on media IP. And anyone who makes the argument for the removal of TSI and ROA under the pretense "people's interests have changed since the 50s", the same thing can be applied to ALL of the IP-specific attractions and lands that have opened/will continue to open at the Parks. The beauty of non-media IP attractions is that they are often timeless in nature and bend with changing interests - that's why attractions like BTMRR, PotC, HM, Space Mountain, Living with the Land, Spaceship Earth, Figment (in theory), Test Track, Soarin', etc. are all still popular with guests, regardless of whether they're interested in a specific movie or TV show. What's going to happen in 25 years when nobody cares about superheroes, just like audiences stopped caring about Westerns or gangster films? (Also, the reason why attractions based on the classic IPs, i.e., in Fantasyland, are still relevant is because those films are timeless stories - many of Disney's current media is not, at all).

The problem here is that Imagineering has a mandate from management to implement more IP into the Parks - I'm sure there are folks at WDI who are extremely clever and creative, who have thought of park-exclusive, original ideas. I guarantee you that the second those ideas are presented, WDI higher-ups/management from TWDC shoot them down OR repurpose them to fit a preexisting IP. And it's not because "it's what people like", it's because Bob Iger is creatively bankrupt and hellbent on proving that the very, very costly acquisitions he made during his tenure were worth it (read his autobiography "The Ride of a Lifetime" and I promise you'll draw the same conclusion). It's done under the guise of "more timeless, more relevant, and more Disney" to shift the hot potato into the hands of the consumer, who Disney has now painted as too stupid to care about any attraction other than ones where the guest points and says "I know that thing from XYZ movie!".

SWGE, Avengers Campus, etc. are neat in concept and pieces of these attractions are impressive in execution, but the motive for shoehorning them into the Parks is nothing more than what I indicated above, and as an advertisement for Disney+. As Chapek said a while back, Disney+ is essentially the Company's gauge for parkgoers' tastes. Now, sure, this might be a sound financial move in the short-term - they are a publicly traded Company, after all, and have a responsiblity to shareholders to turn a healthy profit. Whether that's from merchandise sales, park tickets/LL+, or Disney+ is irrelevant once it all consolidates, it's cash in vs. cash out. However, Disney guests have proven that they are perfectly smart enough to enjoy experiences that are not based on the most recent film by Marvel, Lucasfilm, or Pixar. Like I said above, what's gonna happen when SWGE, Toy Story Land, Avatar, Marvel, etc. are irrelevant to consumers? It's a lot easier to [insert new attraction here] into an area of your park that wasn't purpose-built a specific IP; to me, that's long-term foresight that management lacks. Believe me, I get all the buzzwords, synergy, leveraging properties to sell merchandise, interconnectivity between attractions and media, etc. - I understand that the bean-counters probably determined that the NPV of tearing-out ROA/TSI and building Cars + all the shops meant $X million in future cash flows. That's all well and good. But there's more to making a business decision than just cash flows; Disney is a Company whose reputation is built on decades of goodwill, to which the accountants (of which I am one) can't determine a value.

But what do I know. These are just my thoughts, and all of this could blow up in my face. I'll come back to this in 25 years and take the heat, if I am wrong.
Excellent post.
 

Chef idea Mickey`=

Well-Known Member
We are told not to look at the concept art as a realistic depiction of the final product.

Considering the frontier land isn’t even Disney world but Paris then my guest there will be some revisions.
But why would it have the Paris buildings on one side. Was this a concept art in case to decide between WDW and Disneyland Paris at the time? That would be the only sense even though it's half of it there rest is here. Or someone implemented the wrong facades and clicked Disneyland Paris without realizing lol.
 

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