News Cars-Themed Attractions at Magic Kingdom

[Starship824]

I’m actually quite concerned about the future of the railroad. Every reason that exists for getting rid of the riverboat exists for the railroad and often more. It takes more staff to operate - and much more in maintenance since there are a total of 4 locomotives.

I think there are a few reasons the RR will not suffer the same fate as the river boat.

1. It doesn't take up multiple acres of valuable real estate.

2. It's very high capacity and is very popular.

3. Sure it's expensive to maintain but definitely not as much as the liberty Belle. It doesn't have to go through a complicated lock system in order to go to bay lake to the drydock. All the RR has to do is back up into it. Which is obviously significantly cheaper.

4. Rerouting the railroad is easier than the rivers of America.

5. It also serves as in park transportation, the river boat is a one way loop.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Sure it's expensive to maintain but definitely not as much as the liberty Belle. It doesn't have to go through a complicated lock system in order to go to bay lake to the drydock. All the RR has to do is back up into it. Which is obviously significantly cheaper.

The locomotives get shipped to Strasburg Pennsylvania. Pretty sure a trip across 7 seas lagoon is cheaper haha

 

[Sir_Cliff]

With all this being said, if this really goes through as shown, I feel like in the long term, Disney will lose what relevance they have left, and people will stop returning to the parks due to their lack of cohesiveness, originality, nostalgia, and charm. Drew was right, this is the worst mistake they're making, and if you don't care about saving part of what makes the Magic Kingdom so unique and charming, then don't come on here crying when they replace your favorite classic MK attraction for whatever suits the company's latest IP.

I think this is really true long term.

It is very easy to say and often correct that, right now, such-and-such IP is more relevant/popular than any broader theme in a park. However, time passes and the relevance of most IPs fades. We're really at the early stage of theme parks building immersive lands around single IPs that began with Harry Potter at Universal. How this will pan out in the longer term will be interesting to see.

Imagine if the Magic Kingdom developed during its early years into Aristocats Square, Herbie the Love Bug Land, Sherwood Forrest, and Jungle Book Land. What it have just stayed like that and become as popular as it has? Would they have had to completely demolish and rebuild lands based on more recent IPs multiple times since 1971? Or would it have ended up more like EPCOT Center with things being chopped and changed over the years, some old remaining alongside the new, and all the things for which people had nostalgia being cut and moving to some liminal space where they are referenced but not present in the park?

 

[CraftyFox]

It’s powered by steam, just like mark Twain in California as well as all of the locomotives. Nothing about that makes it a logistical nightmare.

That’s where they have a maintenance area for the boat - but there’s no reason it can’t be refurbished in place like at Disneyland.

You could fill in a large portion of the River like they did in Disneyland - this would be a win-win-win for everyone. View attachment 810391

This solution unfortunately makes it impossible for the boat to reach the dry dock which it needs to remain operational. The reason it is a “logistical nightmare” is because servicing the hull requires it be fully removed from the water. They could theoretically build a new dry dock in this closed circuit but it would be difficult as the RoA sits at a higher level than the local water level. Disneyland’s internal dry dock setup was planned from the start which is why it does not have this issue.

I’m not saying that the smaller loop plan would be impossible (I would much prefer it), only that the current logistics are more complicated than they seem.

 

[lazyboy97o]

3. Sure it's expensive to maintain but definitely not as much as the liberty Belle. It doesn't have to go through a complicated lock system in order to go to bay lake to the drydock. All the RR has to do is back up into it. Which is obviously significantly cheaper.

This Liberty Belle only leaves the river every few years, not every night. The locks are also only a very small part of a larger system that has to stay.

They could theoretically build a new dry dock in this closed circuit but it would be difficult as the RoA sits at a higher level than the local water level.

What? A dry dock doesn’t somehow push towards some “local” water level.

 

[Brer Panther]

Yep. Various. Pre Universal. Not just R&B

Really? I mean, I love Rocky and Bullwinkle, but that seems like such a strange mashup.

 

[bwr827]

The closest parallel I know of is Joe's work on guardians at DCA. And despite leading the project, I don't believe he gave much in the way of a thoughtful defense of it in public.

So it would depend on what motivates their opinions. As far as this goes, my view that Cars/ROA is a poorly conceived project is a consequence of having learned a lot from Joe Rohde's past public writings, so it would be very surprising if he was a 'fan' of the project in his personal capacity.

Rohde might just offer a long message about the “dirt track” surface and how it is not actual track but a carefully designed achievement to authentically appear as dirt while robustly supporting the daily Cars traffic.

 

[celluloid]

Really? I mean, I love Rocky and Bullwinkle, but that seems like such a strange mashup.

Indeed. Proposed does not mean it gets very far. Less of a mash and more replaced. Good thing as those characters have faded a bit to be sure(I love them too)
And no more odd or out of tone than the Dimension Slashers like Scream being in The Haunted Mansion which of course we should also be glad never got far, although that one got a lot further than it should have.
One thing Igor does not do well that Eisner did very well, was the theme park gong show sessions with pitches.

 

[bwr827]

When do we think ROA and TSI will shut down?

Will there be enough advance notice so the crowds can plan one more visit to skip these attractions one last time?

(Couldn’t resist; I do plan to try them for the first time in December.)

 

[Starship824]

The locomotives get shipped to Strasburg Pennsylvania. Pretty sure a trip across 7 seas lagoon is cheaper haha

I always just assumed they did maintenance in the back. Didn't know they got shipped for longer refurbishments. Either way my other points still stand.

 

[Cliff]

Is it possible that Imagineers might read all of our comments here and say:


"Look Sam,...these people are complaining about attraction "sightlines"...hahaha...who really cares?"

"Hey Maria,...these geeks are complaining that our barges ruin the look of the lagoon during the day...who really cares?"

"Juan, check this out...these weirdos think that Cars ruins the "feel" of Frontier land...who really cares?"

"Of course Dave,....of course they are calling our new hotel remodel masterpiece "bland"...because all they want are wild "themes" and wild "decorations"....these people have too much time on their hands....Who really cares?

"Hey Joe, these people are OVERTHINKING this again,...they complain about there NOT being mountains in the Louisiana Bayou...who really cares?"

"Well, Jane,...here these nerds go again. They don't like our new Epcot park bench area. It took MASSIVE amounts of money and took us 6 years of HARD work to design and build this amazing area and all they do is complain and nit-pick about it....who really cares?"

I don't know anymore. Maybe many of us here care more then we should. Maybe we are the last remnant of a dying customer-type. Maybe our standards are old-fashioned and don't match up with modern Imagineering in 2024. Maybe it's time to stop looking at and admiring all the old-fashioned details as much as we to?

Maybe WE take this stuff more seriously than Burbank and Glendale do in 2024?? (And this is OUR fault?)

Maybe people in Burbank and Glendale are reading this and clapping their hands saying:

"YES!!!...this is the truest post this guy has ever typed!...now go away please...we don't need old legacy fans like you anymore"

 

[Pi on my Cake]

I think this is really true long term.

It is very easy to say and often correct that, right now, such-and-such IP is more relevant/popular than any broader theme in a park. However, time passes and the relevance of most IPs fades. We're really at the early stage of theme parks building immersive lands around single IPs that began with Harry Potter at Universal. How this will pan out in the longer term will be interesting to see.

Imagine if the Magic Kingdom developed during its early years into Aristocats Square, Herbie the Love Bug Land, Sherwood Forrest, and Jungle Book Land. What it have just stayed like that and become as popular as it has? Would they have had to completely demolish and rebuild lands based on more recent IPs multiple times since 1971? Or would it have ended up more like EPCOT Center with things being chopped and changed over the years, some old remaining alongside the new, and all the things for which people had nostalgia being cut and moving to some liminal space where they are referenced but not present in the park?

Yeah, if old school Disney World did something crazy with single IP areas (like say an entire island just be based on a Mark Twain book) then eventually it would no longer be relevant and require a major overhaul

 

[mattpeto]

When do we think ROA and TSI will shut down?

Will there be enough advance notice so the crowds can plan one more visit to skip these attractions one last time?

(Couldn’t resist; I do plan to try them for the first time in December.)

If I had to guess, I'd say, not before Summer 2025.

They will add some capacity with the nighttime parade.

 

[MickMinn22]

I’m actually quite concerned about the future of the railroad. Every reason that exists for getting rid of the riverboat exists for the railroad and often more. It takes more staff to operate - and much more in maintenance since there are a total of 4 locomotives.

I do think there is one major difference: Walt’s love of trains. I mean the trains are even named after the Disney family for the most part.

Plus depending where you get on the train you are transported to a new world! I hope a train stop is added with Villains. Imagine going from the American frontier to villains, a land twisted and broken and off again to fantasy land. The way the train picks you up and puts you into another world is a huge appeal.

 

[danlb_2000]

I don't think the railroad needs to close, there is already a pretty good size overpass of the tracks and the water behind fantasy land.
Both new lands should be using that

That is a pretty small road and is used for CM bussing. It would make more sense to temporarily shut down the railroad and directly connect the laydown yard to the construction site.

 

[ctrlaltdel]

I do think there is one major difference: Walt’s love of trains. I mean the trains are even named after the Disney family for the most part.

Plus depending where you get on the train you are transported to a new world! I hope a train stop is added with Villains. Imagine going from the American frontier to villains, a land twisted and broken and off again to fantasy land. The way the train picks you up and puts you into another world is a huge appeal.

Hadn't thought of it before, but a Villains stop makes a lot of sense. Biggest thing is the cost of adding a new station, which obviously could hold it back, and honestly the direction of the RR. Would actually make more sense to have one if the RR ran counterclockwise, as the walk from Fantasyland to where we think Villains is going to be is likely to be quite a much longer than from Frontierland (unless there is going to be Fantasyland entrance).

 

[EricsBiscuit]

since they are likely to totally drain the river it would not be hard to just use the drained portion of the canal as a connection under the bridge by BTMRR. That way they could keep the WDWRR open. I doubt it though we are probably looking at an extended closure because Disney always makes the decision that is worst for its guests.

 

[Incomudro]

Genuine question out of earnest curiosity.

I'm not at all saying they would (because I don't think they would), but if they were to come out and speak honestly and their honest opinion was that they approved it, then what would the response be? Would the fandom turn on these men that it loves to speak for and use as a defense of their points of view all because they don't echo that point of view?

Again, not saying they would be in agreement with Disney's decision, but more so this a little though experiment about how these three men in particular get used for a lot of conversation fodder by Disney fans who just assume they agree with everything Disney fans agree with.

I follow Joe on Instagram, and I would be truly shocked if he were to agree with the decision.
Everything he posts is about history, imagery, etc.

 

[Captain Barbossa]

since they are likely to totally drain the river it would not be hard to just use the drained portion of the canal as a connection under the bridge by BTMRR. That way they could keep the WDWRR open. I doubt it though we are probably looking at an extended closure because Disney always makes the decision that is worst for its guests.

There’s not enough clearance.

 

[Incomudro]

Despite what the concept art shows, and what the insiders are saying, I still have hope that they will reconsider filling in the entire river. Cars will sell merchandise for a while, sure, but will Cars still be relevant in 15-20 years? Also, no matter how many rocks, creeks, and waterfalls are planned for the "new" area, the cars with eyeballs zooming past you will destroy the cohesiveness of Liberty Square and Frontierland. The west side of MK was designed to tell a cohesive story from the dawn of America starting in Liberty Square, and then the acquisition of land up to the Mississippi shown by the CBJ and TSI, followed by the Louisiana Purchase shown by Tiana's, and ending with further western expansion shown by BTM. Not to mention all the screaming in a once peaceful area, and the fact that everything was built to look like a waterfront town. With all this being said, if this really goes through as shown, I feel like in the long term, Disney will lose what relevance they have left, and people will stop returning to the parks due to their lack of cohesiveness, originality, nostalgia, and charm. Drew was right, this is the worst mistake they're making, and if you don't care about saving part of what makes the Magic Kingdom so unique and charming, then don't come on here crying when they replace your favorite classic MK attraction for whatever suits the company's latest IP.

I agree with virtually everything you said, but I don't think we'll be able to see the cars until we get into the actual land.