News Cars-Themed Attractions at Magic Kingdom

CoasterCowboy67

Well-Known Member
The total weight of water acting on the entire surface isn’t relevant since the whole system is in static equilibrium. Think about what it would mean for the oceans if the total weight/mass of the water was a scale that mattered for the mechanical equilibrium of the system.
Static equilibrium doesn’t mean the concrete isn’t under immense stress. A house, a skyscraper, and a tank of propane are all in static equilibrium, and its constituent materials and structure are working hard to keep it that way

By the way, we’ve only been talking about transverse stress on the concrete. We haven’t even considering shear stress (balloon effect) of the riverbed bearing the pressure of the water
 

October82

Well-Known Member
Static equilibrium doesn’t mean the concrete isn’t under immense stress. A house, a skyscraper, and a tank of propane are all in static equilibrium, and its constituent materials and structure are working hard to keep it that way
Stresses are differential - for example, due to differences in the settlement of a concrete pad or the foundation of a building - which is why the relevant measures are the 5 PSI applied load due to the water and the ~10^3 PSI compressive strength of concrete. That means that the water effectively applies zero load to the concrete pad it sits on. Differential settlement of the ground underneath is much more significant.

By the way, we’ve only been talking about transverse stress on the concrete. We haven’t even considering shear stress (balloon effect) of the riverbed bearing the pressure of the water
Typical shear strengths for concrete are still about a factor of 100-200x larger than the loading.

Speaking of, I really want to stress that the reason none of this matters is that the RoA aren't some remarkable feat of engineering - although WDW does have many of those. It's a mostly static body of shallow water. That again doesn't mean that there aren't maintenance costs - it's just that there's nothing interesting structurally going on here. The weight of the water really doesn't matter.
 

TrainsOfDisney

Well-Known Member
Fine, let’s do the calculus
100 = 2x rafts operating @ 50 ppl each
+100 = Let’s say they allow 2x rafts full of people on the island at a given time (doubt it)
+500 = let’s generously say that’s LB’s capacity
= 700 people using ROA / TSI at a given time

Radiator Springs is 1500 people per hour? Let’s assume this new one is half the capacity, and they only make a queue to hold one hour worth of people
= 750 people in line for that 1 ride
Well you are doing 2 different types of calculation there.

Liberty Belle capacity is around 400 but realistically it’s probably 300 so that = 600 per hour.

2 Rafts = 80 guests every 10 minutes = 480 per hour.

So the 2 combined would be 1,080 per hour.

This actually improves my argument for keeping the boat with smaller island - that increases the boats capacity from 600 per hour up to at least 900 per hour, maybe 1200.
 

CoasterCowboy67

Well-Known Member
Then why bring it up as a relative comparison to TSI at all? It’s a fundamentally different kind of attraction such that efficiencies of space usage cannot be compared apples to apples, which was the original statement I made anyway. You were the one arguing that not only would it be more popular and crowded (which I never disagreed with) but that it used the physical space more efficiently than TSI.

Ultimately, one is a pair of minutes-long attractions set along about four new, wider pathways; significant space is allocated to accommodate queues and ride infrastructure, and walkways are critical paths only. The other is a cruise and an always-explorable area with more than a dozen narrower criss-crossing pathways, plus caves and a fort; there are no queues and limited unexplorable infrastructure, with the river itself serving as the only ride path.
It is more efficient.

Rough math:
100 = 2x rafts with 50 ppl each
+100 = Let’s assume they allow 2x rafts full of people on the island at a given time (doubt it)
+500 = let’s generously say that’s LB’s capacity
= 700 people using ROA / TSI at a given time with generous assumptions

Radiator Springs is 1500 people per hour? Let’s assume this new one is half the capacity (doubt it), and they only make a queue to hold one hour worth of people (doubt it)
= 750 people in line for the main new Cars ride at a given time with low ball assumptions. Already more than TSI / ROA without counting those able to be on the main ride, in line for the second ride, on the second ride, in a store, or walking the pathways.
 

CoasterCowboy67

Well-Known Member
Well you are doing 2 different types of calculation there.

Liberty Belle capacity is around 400 but realistically it’s probably 300 so that = 600 per hour.

2 Rafts = 80 guests every 10 minutes = 480 per hour.

So the 2 combined would be 1,080 per hour.

This actually improves my argument for keeping the boat with smaller island - that increases the boats capacity from 600 per hour up to at least 900 per hour, maybe 1200.
No. You’re the one doing 2 different calculations

I calculated the number of people fully occupying the riverboat, rafts, and TSI at a given moment. It’s 700 people, generously, physically occupying as much of ROA / TSI at the same time. These are the people “eaten” by these attractions that aren’t elsewhere in the park in that moment. It’s peanuts :)

I then calculated how just the queue for one of the rides would eat more people at a single given moment of time than this entirety of ROA / TSI combined
 

James Alucobond

Well-Known Member
It is more efficient.

Rough math:
100 = 2x rafts with 50 ppl each
+100 = Let’s assume they allow 2x rafts full of people on the island at a given time (doubt it)
+500 = let’s generously say that’s LB’s capacity
= 700 people using ROA / TSI at a given time with generous assumptions

Radiator Springs is 1500 people per hour? Let’s assume this new one is half the capacity (doubt it), and they only make a queue to hold one hour worth of people (doubt it)
= 750 people in line for the main new Cars ride at a given time with low ball assumptions. Already more than TSI / ROA without counting those able to be on the main ride, in line for the second ride, on the second ride, in a store, or walking the pathways.
Depending on queue length, those 1500 will not necessarily occupy the miniland continuously during the full hour (particularly with Lightning Lane), whereas those on TSI generally will because they’re actively doing things. Something like TSI, theoretically at capacity, has less total throughput but potentially takes people out of the pool that is stressing the broader park facilities for more total time.
 

CoasterCowboy67

Well-Known Member
Why would anyone assume it's half that capacity?
( I know you said "doubt it" just curious what hypothetical metric we're using)
I was being generous to the argument ROA / TSI has anywhere near as much capacity or space efficiency as this Cars proposal. Which isnt possible. In reality, I expect this ride to be much more comparable to RSR than half, and the queue will be able to hold much more than 60 minutes worth of guests waiting (probably double). Think this ride and it’s queue would already 3x capacity over ROA / TSI at a given moment; and we have yet added the second ride, it’s queue, a likely store, and walkways
 

erasure fan1

Well-Known Member
So don't count on the final variant of this Cars miniland to look as pretty as its concept art.
I think that's a guarantee it won't. I mean, has any land they've built come even remotely close? I can't think of any. Sure it's concept art, but they are pretty good at over promising and under delivering. I'd say Pandora is probably the closest they've come.
 

CoasterCowboy67

Well-Known Member
Depending on queue length, those 1500 will not necessarily occupy the miniland continuously during the full hour (particularly with Lightning Lane), whereas those on TSI generally will because they’re actively doing things. Something like TSI, theoretically at capacity, has less total throughput but potentially takes people out of the pool that is stressing the broader park facilities for more total time.
They’re on a ride or in line for the ride. They’re fully occupying those two spaces for at least the 60 minute duration of the line; which is a low ball. And we haven’t added those doing the same for the second ride, a potential store, and walkways

And you’ve now reverted to a realistic capacity vs. theoretical max capacity. If we’re on the former, then the reality is the boat, rafts and island have nowhere near 700 people on them at a given time. The Cars rides and land will be packed to the brim
 

TrainsOfDisney

Well-Known Member
I'd say Pandora is probably the closest they've come.
By far the closest they’ve gotten in recent years is Pandora and Cars Land - not only did they have 2 of the best imagineers leading those projects (Kevin and Joe) - but more importantly they the films Producers heavily involved - neither producer was scared of Bob Iger and both demanded that the lands be done right and not budget cut.
 

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
Depending on queue length, those 1500 will not necessarily occupy the miniland continuously during the full hour (particularly with Lightning Lane), whereas those on TSI generally will because they’re actively doing things. Something like TSI, theoretically at capacity, has less total throughput but potentially takes people out of the pool that is stressing the broader park facilities for more total time.

The time it takes to take the raft there and back is longer than a lot of new rides they've built of late.
 

GenChi

Well-Known Member
The funny thing is, Disney could sell merch for ANY parks IP if they wanted to. Haunted Mansion merch sells. Figment merch sells. If they made merch for Pirates (the ride, not the movie), Country Bears, Jungle Cruise, Small World, etc., it'd sell. People love the parks IP more than Disney expects. The CBMJ shirt has been selling well because people WANT CBJ merch. Disney would rather just sell the kind of merch you can get at any Target in America, because it's safe.

It's unbelievable to me how they mishandle such a potential cash cow.

It gets me because REGIONAL PARKS manage to have a full scale of merchandise for their rides, even ones without beloved characters or larger fandoms. From pins to shirts and even plushes at time for random themeless roller coasters. They manage to do it better then the supposed leaders who are stuck just throwing the Elsa and Mickey merch you can get at Walmart in all park stores.

They know Haunted Mansion and Figment are successful sellers and they do a good job merchandising them. There's no reason they can't do some things for every ride, every ride in the park should have some collection of merch buyable nearby. Even if they buy wholesale shirts and iron on different attraction posters. Throw in a few original pieces or even a full collection once every few years like they do sometimes to excite fans.

People want this, they know this is successful. Many rides are undermerched. That they refuse to do it just boggles my mind.
 

James Alucobond

Well-Known Member
They’re on a ride or in line for the ride. They’re fully occupying those two spaces for at least the 60 minute duration of the line; which is a low ball. And we haven’t added those doing the same for the second ride, a potential store, and walkways

And you’ve now reverted to a realistic capacity vs. theoretical max capacity. If we’re on the former, then the reality is the boat, rafts and island have nowhere near 700 people on them at a given time. The Cars rides and land will be packed to the brim
The point is that the instantaneous capacity of the miniland is totally different from the hourly capacity of its attractions, particularly when you have so many people zooming in and out in 10 minutes with a Lightning Lane. TSI, by contrast, is a pretty captive commitment for a significant chunk of time.

And again, I was never arguing popularity with you. I’m sure the standby for Cars will overflow its queue whereas TSI is frequently desolate. But they are not really comparable in terms of efficiency of space because they are fundamentally different experiences, and hourly capacity is a poor measure for any non-ride attraction.
 

TrainsOfDisney

Well-Known Member
I’ve got one thing to throw out there -

Supposedly Monsters Inc. is not 100% sure on location and how it gets implemented. Multiple sites have been considered (as evident in the artwork).

There’s got to be multiple designs on the drawing board for this attraction - I’m quite positive there is a design that keeps the riverboat. Meaning cars still happens and the riverboat stays.

I know it’s a long shot, but it’s in the world of possibilities.
 

CoasterCowboy67

Well-Known Member
I guarantee the day they announce a replacement for the Speedway, the exact same complaining we're seeing today will be made about that too.
“But it was one of the first attractions to let us drive!” “But it’s the perfect transition from Fantasyland to Tomorrowland!” But it’s what Walt wanted for us!” “But it was such a calm retreat from the hustle and bustle of the fast paced rides!” “But why didn’t it go somewhere else!”

If it’s not original IP in net new land, brace for the riot. The older and emptier the attraction it’s replacing, the louder the riot.
 

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