News Cars-Themed Attractions at Magic Kingdom

[hopemax]

They KNOW it has to blow people out of the water! Just like they knew Tiana’s had to blow people out of the water! Look at how great that turned out! Why can’t we trust these poor execs making these hard decisions!

They think we’re idiots.

That and Galaxy’s Edge and the Epcot spine. I don’t where other people are getting all this trust out of current Disney. These are the projects when they really *try.*

Some CA projects have turned out okay, and I’ll get to see Fantasy Springs in 2 months. So maybe it’s just operational constraints and budgets after being run through WDW management, and not the entirety of WDI that’s broken. However, as someone whose first failure and Disney heartbreak was Tomorrowland ‘98, I really don’t have the patience or frankly, time to give them the benefit of the doubt anymore. Better ideas aren’t coming, because the people in charge can’t even recognize what differentiates themselves from others in the marketplace.

My WDW visits have continued the last decade, because I could visit for free. The June trip was the first time I didn’t go to all 4 parks. We skipped DHS because it’s too hard to actually ride anything after the first attraction. It’s been basically two of Tower, MMRR and TSMM, followed by Muppets and Star Tours before leaving. All these announcements, the writing is on the wall. Disney doesn’t even want guests to have the option to experience attractions with low waits. Every attraction must be painful (which only ratchets up expectations, but whatever.) Or space simply abandoned like the front of Tomorrowland.

When DLR announced their Frontierland changes, we booked a last minute trip to see the park before. I’m not sure if I ever want to set foot in the Magic Kingdom again. Once Epic opens it will be hard to justify keeping WDW on the agenda, even though it’s free, and we have to pay… and expect to pay a lot, to do Universal.

 

[Quietmouse]

They programmed the general public to think that way. When I first started going to the parks in the 80s and 90s the focus was on exploring and experiencing all the areas of the park.

Yes but would you explore it again on a repeat visit ? I think that’s kind of the main topic point. The boat nor the island had a repeatability factor.

 

[FigmentFan82]

in 2030-2040 it can be fair to say that a Cars area like this will be less culturally relevant than the Pioneer concept of American romanticized history is now.

as long as there are little kids, Car will be relevant. that is not going to change. and everyone who visits RS in DCA says they love it. i'm guessing many will like this too

 

[el_super]

Cars Land there is very different. It is Route 66 .

If you're willing to accept that DCA's Cars Land can have value outside of the IP, why not the new MK Frontierland?

The land can still be gorgeous.

 

[KDM31091]

They don’t seem to care about blowing people out of the water anymore. As long as it sells merch and pushes Disney+ subscriptions I guess that’s good enough now. But I too noticed the “we know we have to blow this out of the water” shtick and I don’t believe they will.

Speaking of water, I’m also reluctant to believe the concept art showing any water being what happens. New Fantasyland, Galaxys Edge and Future World all had water in the concept art IIRC and have not a trace of any water.

And yes. They only want long wait high demand attractions to sell more LL. Low wait attractions aren’t monetizing you as a guest and therefore are not a priority. Every guest walking around needs to be buying LL, buying merch or buying food.

 

[el_super]

They programmed the general public to think that way. When I first started going to the parks in the 80s and 90s the focus was on exploring and experiencing all the areas of the park.

LOL if they could program people, why not just program them to like what is already there and save the money?

 

[celluloid]

If you're willing to accept that DCA's Cars Land can have value outside of the IP, why not the new MK Frontierland?

The land can still be gorgeous.

Because it could certainly go somewhere better than the middle of Frontierland and across from The Haunted Mansion?

If you admit the land's design is irrelevant to where it is at, then you admit that it is that clear that Disney put little thought into that as well.

Gorgeous lands don't really happen at Disney often anymore stateside. Pandora was over a decade ago by the time this thing opens and took much longer with more resources.

 

[Gusey]

I keep seeing comments about how MK has the worst FL, but I honestly don't get it. What makes other FLs more special than MK's? I've been to DL and their FL seemed small and didn't have much more (if anything more) to offer than MK's. Of course, now it will with their shooting arcade, riverboat and island still intact (for now). But I felt underwhelmed with their FL compared to WDW's. Ours always felt so open to me and very "western expansion" like.

It's more the content of MK's Rivers that is the worst version of RoA. Disneyland's has more to see on the back half that can only be viewed from the boats (a lot of MK's are hidden by overgrown trees), there are lots of different transportation options on the river and at night it transforms into a nighttime show.

 

[Grantwil93]

I think outside of the serious fans, the majority of casual park guests think Cars moving into RoA and TSI is a very good thing.

Unfortunately you are absolutely correct. Talked to hundreds of guests already about this and fellow CM's and literally only 2 ppl were actually upset. The reality of the actual opinions of guests is not even remotely in line with what many here and on X think it is.

 

[Stripes]

Look at the concept art: the mountain is not supposed to be hidden, you're supposed to see it when you walk into the land from the hub. They're not planning for it to be hidden behind a wall of trees.

In the concept art, when you walk in from the hub, it’s quite forested. See the area circled in green.

 

[celluloid]

It's more the content of MK's Rivers that is the worst version of RoA. Disneyland's has more to see on the back half that can only be viewed from the boats (a lot of MK's are hidden by overgrown trees), there are lots of different transportation options on the river and at night it transforms into a nighttime show.

Except they butchered it into a Pirate Island for a good while of its life.

MK's ROA used to have a good amount more. No Columbia but it did have more.

 

[mickEblu]

It's been changed and updated quite a few times. It lost Cascade Peak in 1998. It lost most of the trees in 2002. It was updated in 2009 (to add stuff missing since the trees were gone) and then shortened and reconfigured in 2016 with the SWGE changes. If you remember what it was like in the late 90s and even into the early 2000s, it's a shell of what it used to be. It's been gone for a long time really.

No the river was there when I went to the park last Friday. You can't compare some modifications to not being there at all. Cmon man lol. Stop with the silliness

 

[Quietmouse]

Because it could certainly go somewhere better than the middle of Frontierland and across from The Haunted Mansion?

If you admit the land's design is irrelevant to where it is at, then you admit that it is that clear that Disney put little thought into that as well.

Gorgeous lands don't really happen at Disney often anymore stateside. Pandora was over a decade ago by the time this thing opens and took much longer with more resources.

Star Wars land is gorgeous as well though.

Disney absolutely has the talent and resources to still make beautiful lands.

 

[MattyBear]

I realize it's a very big longshot, but if they use this to cut the river short put in the same water-front theming they did for the railroad at Disneyland, that could be a huge improvement over the current complete lack of theming that most of the RR has.

There is water shown in the Villains Land concepts, so maybe there could be a way to maintain some part of the river and the riverboat ride to fit in with that. I know I should know better, but I'd be very surprised if they completely eliminated the Liberty Belle after the recent refurbishment.


View attachment 809275

I like this idea. My initial thoughts were they’re going to do something with the Liberty Bell. I just don’t know what yet. Could also be nice to have a new railroad station in villains land.

 

[Ghost93]

I was initially upset by this news. I still kinda am. However, the more I've sat on it, the more I'm at least understanding what they are going for. If they pull it off(big if) I actually think this will be great.

This tweet did make me understand the "why?" A lot better. Knowing what I know about operations, this getting done was something they probably begged for. Not "Cars" but removal of dead ends and other issues ahead of Villains.

I also get why the RoA may have been going regardless. I encourage everyone to read the tweet by Bill Zanetti as it sheds a ton of light on the situation.

For those who don't have Twitter/X and can't read it, here is the full explanation:

"It’s hard to see from the art, but there are new ponds, streams, and waterfalls that are being created, so it’s not a total loss of water. There will actually be more kinetic energy with this than there currently is in the area. But as for why…

Remember that the Rivers of America at WDW are connected by a lock to the Seven Seas Lagoon. Major challenges exist to this river system and drainage in the area that need to be accounted for. The foundation of the river isn’t in great shape, nor is it filtered water. The nature of this river surrounding the island system also prevents construction on the islands. To retain any of this river as is would be impossible, as the connection would need to remain near Thunder Mountain to the lock.

One of the key drivers of this re-do was requested by the park management itself… to eliminate dead ends. That can’t be accomplished while retaining the navigable river system. So you have an aging river basin in dire need of resurfacing, logistical nightmares to improve the islands, and dead end pathways on two sides. Plus access must be created to get to the other side of the river systems for any expansion.

I can tell you that countless rides were taken on the riverboat by key people involved in this decision and it was not taken lightly. They know they have to blow everyone out of the water with what gets built on the site. (Pun intended) It still makes sense.

Cars being the IP was selected for WDI by others. Cars makes ridiculous financial and demographic sense. It sells merchandise like no other franchise, it will eventually allow for the removal of the Tomorrowland Speedway on the other side of the park to free up more valuable real estate in the park, it appeals to the Floridian demographic, and it appeals to families (not single millennials, if they were going for that demographic they would have themed the entire area to A Goofy Movie). Cars also is a friendly story that will provide the friendly alternative to the scary Villains land beyond.

How to fit Cars into the region is actually very real, as JL did concepts for the original films going through places like Yellowstone, but were never realized (though the adjacent franchise, Planes Fire & Rescue does take place in a Yellowstone-like national park). There is a lot more to this concept and I think you’ll see some more Cars related IP coming around the bend that will even cement how it makes logical sense being there. This concept is adjacent to National Parks (not inside one) and it is very pretty. I do have doubts about the reliability of it being outdoors in Florida, but that’s besides the point here.

The aesthetics of the land are based on the Grizzly Peak Recreation Area in DCA. (Piston Peak instead of Grizzly Peak) Obviously there are some aesthetic differences and it’s a Cars ride instead of a rapids ride, but that’s a product of the MK having Tiana’s so close and the IP requirement set above.

In the end, there was no way to save the existing river system. The new lands have major elevation changes that can’t be accomplished without altering the river, and the reality is that they have an obligation to push for more capacity in the park, even if it means at the cost of something so big. It will be tough to see for the next 5-10 years, but I’ve been assured it will all be worth it, and the new water features will be much cleaner and feel a lot more fun.

I hope that explains a lot of the decision making that went into this. Happy to answer a few other questions if you still have them."

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Once Rivers of America is replaced by Cars, there's no going back.

Until 40 years when they announce “we are creating the vintage MK none of you ever got to experience!” And change it back haha.

You know what costs the most money on a daily basis with the least direct return? Meet and Greets. Are they getting rid of those?

They do make money with photo pass.

Blue: maintained as is, potentially with a walkway to the island (Retheme to somthing eg woodys roundup).

Pink: redevelopment as a new land for villainsView attachment 809258

This would have been ideal - also solves the issue of having the River connected to the waterways if that was an actual issue.

You know how high a walkway would have to be to get the Liberty Belle under it?

50’ above the highest water line.

But the boat and island have no repeat factor at all.

The boat does. Maybe not for you, but for me it’s become a real favorite. I learned to appreciate it more when the railroad was down and it was my only way to get a steam engine fix! Haha.

 

[celluloid]

Star Wars land is gorgeous as well though.

Disney absolutely has the talent and resources to still make beautiful lands.

No one said they didn't. It does not happen often anymore stateside.

For one Star Wars is going to have more resources and budget than Cars rides on Tom Sawyer's Island's plot.

And that is an interesting example in itself, because although gorgeous, for most it has been critiqued on substance.

Its Pencil and paper design issues most of the time at Disney, not budget. Anyone who thinks anthropamorphic cars outside of Fantasyland or Toontown is not jarring...is not being genuine with the tone of MK.

 

[Raineman]

To all of the people that are completely OK with this change, I will say this: sooner or later, Disney is going to rip out the attraction/land/area that you think is sacred, that you love, that you think is integral to the parks. Only then will you understand how we feel about this change.

 

[mickEblu]

It's very unlikely they'll get rid of the RoA at either Disneyland or Disneyland Paris. Disneyland's Rivers have a lot more going for them including Fantasmic, Mark Twain, SS Comumbia and the Canoes. Even when they considered converting TSI to Discovery Bay at one point, they still kept the rivers with bridges connecting the island to mainland. Disneyland Paris' was built with Big Thunder in the middle of it, so whilst they are down to one boat, the rivers will likely stay because of Big Thunder. Tokyo's on the other hand may face a similar fate to MK's as Tokyo Disneyland is running out of expansion space.

That makes sense. Still a loss for people who enjoyed it at MK though. Anyway, if Disney doesn't care and half the people here who have WDW as their home resort don't care then why should I?

 

[el_super]

If you admit the land's design is irrelevant to where it is at, then you admit that it is that clear that Disney put little thought into that as well.

You yourself said that Cars Land at DCA was gorgeous, even after you admitted it didn't really have much to do with California.

So again: if you are willing to accept that something doesn't fit the theme, but still can be beautifully done, why not a new Frontierland?