News Cars-Themed Attractions at Magic Kingdom

[Grantwil93]

as long as there are little kids, Car will be relevant. that is not going to change. and everyone who visits RS in DCA says they love it. i'm guessing many will like this too

Little boys love 1 of 2 things more than anything. Spiderman and Lightning McQueen


It's their Frozen/Moana. And that's been since I was a kid obsessed with Spiderman over 20 years ago

 

[celluloid]

Sorry I'm trying to get you to acknowledge the holes in your arguments. Cars Land is great, because somehow you can separate it from the IP, and the placement and theme in the park, but this decision is terrible because you can't separate out that Cars don't belong in MK and somehow already know it won't be gorgeous.

They will will be fine.

You just argued against yourself. Go back to your argument. Facts point out gaping holes in yours.

Cars Land is a great design, and some of that shines through despite of what negatively occured to it.

It would have likely have been better if Kevin's design of what it was supposed to be shown through. Synergy forced it to be slightly less. And it was 2006 in the planning.

DCA was a mess of a park,(arguably still is becuase current leadership is meh) and Carsland enhanced what was the worst Disney theme park experience in the states and arguably ever built. It replaced nothing that was of value or famous design of a theme park.

You don't see how this is very different than that?

 

[Animaniac93-98]

I feel like I’m seeing far more negative feedback toward MuppetVision’s apparent removal than I am for anything here.

They are both disappointing in their own ways.

 

[STITCHGEFAN]

To all of the people that are completely OK with this change, I will say this: sooner or later, Disney is going to rip out the attraction/land/area that you think is sacred, that you love, that you think is integral to the parks. Only then will you understand how we feel about this change. Until then, continue your passive-aggressive mocking, virtue-signaling and WDI bootlicking if it makes you feel better.

You're absolutely correct that it will happen at some point. What are classics and integral to me will be seen as disposable to younger generations in years to come. Just like TSI and ROA are seen as disposable to enough people now for WDW to get rid of them.

It seems though, as is the case with the modern world, you either have to hate the decision and belittle anyone who looks at it differently, or approve of the changes and mock anyone upset about it.

 

[Dizknee_Phreek]

It's more the content of MK's Rivers that is the worst version of RoA. Disneyland's has more to see on the back half that can only be viewed from the boats (a lot of MK's are hidden by overgrown trees), there are lots of different transportation options on the river and at night it transforms into a nighttime show.

Those are valid points. I went to DL during the week so Fantasmic wasn't going at night, I think they weren't doing the canoes, and unfortunately the Columbia was docked while we were there. So for me it was literally no different than WDW's current version.
That being said, all those points are WDW's fault. At one point we had more use for the RoA with the Mike Fink Keelboats. Of course those have been long gone and I don't know if I ever heard a reason for their removal. And these days it would be more difficult to make use of their former loading dock because of the crazy HM lines (back in the day that wasn't an issue). But the point is, I feel like they COULD have made more use of the river.
As for a nighttime show, obviously DL used theirs for Fantasmic due to size constraints. But WDW could've done something...even if maybe temporarily dock the LB and do a mini nighttime character cavalcade/water parade type thing. Obviously these are all "coulda, shoulda, woulda" thoughts and we'll never know. I'm just saying there were possibilities to make the river more kinetic and relevant, but for whatever reason they chose not to. But I still don't think that makes our FL "bad" or worse than others.

 

[Quietmouse]

For those who don't have Twitter/X and can't read it, here is the full explanation:

"It’s hard to see from the art, but there are new ponds, streams, and waterfalls that are being created, so it’s not a total loss of water. There will actually be more kinetic energy with this than there currently is in the area. But as for why…

Remember that the Rivers of America at WDW are connected by a lock to the Seven Seas Lagoon. Major challenges exist to this river system and drainage in the area that need to be accounted for. The foundation of the river isn’t in great shape, nor is it filtered water. The nature of this river surrounding the island system also prevents construction on the islands. To retain any of this river as is would be impossible, as the connection would need to remain near Thunder Mountain to the lock.

One of the key drivers of this re-do was requested by the park management itself… to eliminate dead ends. That can’t be accomplished while retaining the navigable river system. So you have an aging river basin in dire need of resurfacing, logistical nightmares to improve the islands, and dead end pathways on two sides. Plus access must be created to get to the other side of the river systems for any expansion.

I can tell you that countless rides were taken on the riverboat by key people involved in this decision and it was not taken lightly. They know they have to blow everyone out of the water with what gets built on the site. (Pun intended) It still makes sense.

Cars being the IP was selected for WDI by others. Cars makes ridiculous financial and demographic sense. It sells merchandise like no other franchise, it will eventually allow for the removal of the Tomorrowland Speedway on the other side of the park to free up more valuable real estate in the park, it appeals to the Floridian demographic, and it appeals to families (not single millennials, if they were going for that demographic they would have themed the entire area to A Goofy Movie). Cars also is a friendly story that will provide the friendly alternative to the scary Villains land beyond.

How to fit Cars into the region is actually very real, as JL did concepts for the original films going through places like Yellowstone, but were never realized (though the adjacent franchise, Planes Fire & Rescue does take place in a Yellowstone-like national park). There is a lot more to this concept and I think you’ll see some more Cars related IP coming around the bend that will even cement how it makes logical sense being there. This concept is adjacent to National Parks (not inside one) and it is very pretty. I do have doubts about the reliability of it being outdoors in Florida, but that’s besides the point here.

The aesthetics of the land are based on the Grizzly Peak Recreation Area in DCA. (Piston Peak instead of Grizzly Peak) Obviously there are some aesthetic differences and it’s a Cars ride instead of a rapids ride, but that’s a product of the MK having Tiana’s so close and the IP requirement set above.

In the end, there was no way to save the existing river system. The new lands have major elevation changes that can’t be accomplished without altering the river, and the reality is that they have an obligation to push for more capacity in the park, even if it means at the cost of something so big. It will be tough to see for the next 5-10 years, but I’ve been assured it will all be worth it, and the new water features will be much cleaner and feel a lot more fun.

I hope that explains a lot of the decision making that went into this. Happy to answer a few other questions if you still have them."

This will be grizzly peak surrounding frontier land and creating a natural gateway to villains land thru the use of the forest. It honestly could work extremely well if the budget allows the imagineers to do what they ultimately envision.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

LOL if they could program people, why not just program them to like what is already there and save the money?

There does seem to be an Ego thing with Bob - many decisions don’t make sense money wise. Not just in the parks - studios as well.

If the parks were being run independently - things would be enhanced and refreshed. Sometimes that would mean adding IP, sometimes not.

Pandora was over a decade ago by the time this thing opens and took much longer with more resources.

Yes, and also one of the best imagineers ever led that project and there was lots of pressure from James Cameron to do it right.

 

[KDM31091]

For those who don't have Twitter/X and can't read it, here is the full explanation:

"It’s hard to see from the art, but there are new ponds, streams, and waterfalls that are being created, so it’s not a total loss of water. There will actually be more kinetic energy with this than there currently is in the area. But as for why…

Remember that the Rivers of America at WDW are connected by a lock to the Seven Seas Lagoon. Major challenges exist to this river system and drainage in the area that need to be accounted for. The foundation of the river isn’t in great shape, nor is it filtered water. The nature of this river surrounding the island system also prevents construction on the islands. To retain any of this river as is would be impossible, as the connection would need to remain near Thunder Mountain to the lock.

One of the key drivers of this re-do was requested by the park management itself… to eliminate dead ends. That can’t be accomplished while retaining the navigable river system. So you have an aging river basin in dire need of resurfacing, logistical nightmares to improve the islands, and dead end pathways on two sides. Plus access must be created to get to the other side of the river systems for any expansion.

I can tell you that countless rides were taken on the riverboat by key people involved in this decision and it was not taken lightly. They know they have to blow everyone out of the water with what gets built on the site. (Pun intended) It still makes sense.

Cars being the IP was selected for WDI by others. Cars makes ridiculous financial and demographic sense. It sells merchandise like no other franchise, it will eventually allow for the removal of the Tomorrowland Speedway on the other side of the park to free up more valuable real estate in the park, it appeals to the Floridian demographic, and it appeals to families (not single millennials, if they were going for that demographic they would have themed the entire area to A Goofy Movie). Cars also is a friendly story that will provide the friendly alternative to the scary Villains land beyond.

How to fit Cars into the region is actually very real, as JL did concepts for the original films going through places like Yellowstone, but were never realized (though the adjacent franchise, Planes Fire & Rescue does take place in a Yellowstone-like national park). There is a lot more to this concept and I think you’ll see some more Cars related IP coming around the bend that will even cement how it makes logical sense being there. This concept is adjacent to National Parks (not inside one) and it is very pretty. I do have doubts about the reliability of it being outdoors in Florida, but that’s besides the point here.

The aesthetics of the land are based on the Grizzly Peak Recreation Area in DCA. (Piston Peak instead of Grizzly Peak) Obviously there are some aesthetic differences and it’s a Cars ride instead of a rapids ride, but that’s a product of the MK having Tiana’s so close and the IP requirement set above.

In the end, there was no way to save the existing river system. The new lands have major elevation changes that can’t be accomplished without altering the river, and the reality is that they have an obligation to push for more capacity in the park, even if it means at the cost of something so big. It will be tough to see for the next 5-10 years, but I’ve been assured it will all be worth it, and the new water features will be much cleaner and feel a lot more fun.

I hope that explains a lot of the decision making that went into this. Happy to answer a few other questions if you still have them."

This to me is less of an explanation and more just a bunch of lame corporate spin excuses. The reality is they could fix it if they wanted to. They just don’t care enough to, or don’t think it’s popular enough, or whatever.

I’d almost prefer they just came out and said “we don’t care who loves the River, it’s coming out to make room for Cars” then to spin this corporate speak.

I’d also bet money that we won’t get anywhere near as lush or scenic or water filled of an environment as they’re promising. See almost every recent concept art compared to what was delivered.

 

[psherman42]

Echo Lake was already on the chopping block once, meant to be part of Galaxy’s Edge until someone promoted the idea of a brand new expansion.

And thus while Echo Lake was spared, we got the weirdness of having Star Tours left out by its lonesome, not invited to the GE party.

The idea of Echo Lake makes me so sad, but if they’re willing to bulldoze ROA, it shouldn’t surprise me.

Thats why they aren't in the art.

Yep. Not being in the artwork means people can’t get mad when the water isn’t there.

I keep seeing some comments about how there may be a change of mind, and it wont go forward on TSI and RoA. Just to reiterate, this project is full steam ahead, and nobody is reconsidering.

But why?! Why are they not reconsidering? It just seems completely insane that of all the announcements at d23 this is the one their dead set on bringing to fruition.

I don’t think anyone is arguing that it’s ugly.

It’s clearly beautiful.

I think a more fair question would be, say it’s the year 2150 and all of the land available for magic kingdom is officially gone and built upon - would you still keep River of Americas or would you build on that land with one more land/attractions?

Build a new park?

There will still be water and beautiful sightlines

Cars will not be zooming by the Haunted Mansion

You can’t guarantee that. There is no water in the concept art. And even if there is, again, a waterfall is not even close to the same thing as a river.

I feel like I’m seeing far more negative feedback toward MuppetVision’s apparent removal than I am for anything here.

Which is absolutely wild to me. I love muppets but at this point, I don’t care if it goes. The loss will not be felt nearly as hard as the loss of roa.

It would depend on how it's framed IMO. Casual fans are probably not thinking of the implication of what it means or what the land might feel like without the ROA/TSI.

Exactly. Most people probably just looked at the concept art, saw a cool land and got excited. They’re not thinking about what it’s taking the place of.

 

[HoustonHorn]

A couple of things in the Bill Zanetti screed that has been posted sure does raise eyebrows:

They know they have to blow everyone out of the water with what gets built on the site. (Pun intended)

There's an attraction right around the corner about which the same was said. How has that worked out?

I do have doubts about the reliability of it being outdoors in Florida, but that’s besides the point here.

Again, a reskinned attraction right around the corner would like a word or two about reliability.

We are going to lose RoA and TSI for an attraction by today's WDI that gave us TBA. Blech.

 

[phillip9698]

The general public is stupid.
Remember when Homer designed a car in The Simpsons?

Keep in mind, the general public is who keeps the lights on!

 

[Grantwil93]

Unfortunately you are absolutely correct. Talked to hundreds of guests already about this and fellow CM's and literally only 2 ppl were actually upset. The reality of the actual opinions of guests is not even remotely in line with what many here and on X think it is.

And to add, I'm not saying guests even know what's good for them.

The general public is stupid.
Remember when Homer designed a car in The Simpsons?

Yeah. I'm more just saying that this is a case where what is being put in is an incredibly popular idea with families. Unless it turns out to be a garbage experience, this will go over very very well with 90% or more guests

Muppets is definitely more beloved by the 20-40 year old demo, which is why that one has more negative opinions among guests and the internet atm

 

[Quietmouse]

I wonder if they can somehow dock the boat in frontier lane and utilize it as a premium restaurant space? It would allow Disney to continue to generate revenue instead of figuring out how to dismantle and move the entire boat.

 

[hopemax]

Yes but would you explore it again on a repeat visit ? I think that’s kind of the main topic point. The boat nor the island had a repeatability factor.

The biggest deterrent we find is not a lack of interest, but a lack of time. It takes so much time and energy to do the top 5 things, something else doesn’t make the cut.

A Cars attraction isn’t going to magically give people more time in their day to experience it. It’s going to present people with harder decisions of what to eliminate from their schedule. And then that thing will be on the chopping block, regardless of its quality. And eventually the MK problem of “there are too many attractions” to operate and staff, compared to the other parks, goes away.

Disney’s answer isn’t make DHS more like the MK, enough variety, capacity and options to go around, which is what guests want. It’s make MK more like DHS. Whittle that attraction count down, people homogenize their attraction selections (we’ve seen this with all the FP, LL options and the guides to maximize your choices, don’t waste them!) , more pinch points, more money / time commitments to experience.

 

[Grantwil93]

A couple of things in the Bill Zanetti screed that has been posted sure does raise eyebrows:



There's an attraction right around the corner about which the same was said. How has that worked out?



Again, a reskinned attraction right around the corner would like a word or two about reliability.

We are going to lose RoA and TSI for an attraction by today's WDI that gave us TBA. Blech.

Reliability will be the thing that sinks this above all else. There is a maintenance problem property wide atm

 

[doctornick]

For those who don't have Twitter/X and can't read it, here is the full explanation:

"It’s hard to see from the art, but there are new ponds, streams, and waterfalls that are being created, so it’s not a total loss of water. There will actually be more kinetic energy with this than there currently is in the area. But as for why…

Remember that the Rivers of America at WDW are connected by a lock to the Seven Seas Lagoon. Major challenges exist to this river system and drainage in the area that need to be accounted for. The foundation of the river isn’t in great shape, nor is it filtered water. The nature of this river surrounding the island system also prevents construction on the islands. To retain any of this river as is would be impossible, as the connection would need to remain near Thunder Mountain to the lock.

One of the key drivers of this re-do was requested by the park management itself… to eliminate dead ends. That can’t be accomplished while retaining the navigable river system. So you have an aging river basin in dire need of resurfacing, logistical nightmares to improve the islands, and dead end pathways on two sides. Plus access must be created to get to the other side of the river systems for any expansion.

Ignoring the fact that "where there is a will, there is a way" and you could definitely get access to north of RoA by going around the waterway - if they wanted - you could still retain at least some of the existing river but still fill in other and build on the island by just using bridges over whatever you keep. keep the water from BTMRR down and around the about the Liberty Belle dock (and permanently dock the boat). Then build brides over the water to this new land.

You can even infill the retained water somewhat and make it narrower if needed to have a bit more land.

 

[Incomudro]

Keep in mind, the general public is who keeps the lights on!

The general public thinks Taylor Swift is great music, and McDonald's great food.
Why not just build the Time Masheen dark ride in Idiocracy at this point?
The general public will think that's as great as anything else.

 

[Bocabear]

THis Carsland would be a perfect Pixar Studios Miniland along with the Monstropolous Miniland and an Incredibles Miniland...all for DHS.... not MK.

 

[Grantwil93]

I wonder if they can somehow dock the boat in frontier lane and utilize it as a premium restaurant space? It would allow Disney to continue to generate revenue instead of figuring out how to dismantle and move the entire boat.

I'd honestly see a world where it gets parked on land as the front of a new Tiana restaurant, with a building attavhed to the other side. I don't even know where that would be, but I don't know what else you can do with her

 

[Quietmouse]

The biggest deterrent we find is not a lack of interest, but a lack of time. It takes so much time and energy to do the top 5 things, something else doesn’t make the cut.

A Cars attraction isn’t going to magically give people more time in their day to experience it. It’s going to present people with harder decisions of what to eliminate from their schedule. And then that thing will be on the chopping block, regardless of its quality. And eventually the MK problem of “there are too many attractions” to operate and staff, compared to the other parks, goes away.

Disney’s answer isn’t make DHS more like the MK, enough variety, capacity and options to go around, which is what guests want. It’s make MK more like DHS. Whittle that attraction count down, people homogenize their attraction selections (we’ve seen this with all the FP, LL options and the guides to maximize your choices, don’t waste them!) , more pinch points, more money / time commitments to experience.

I’m not sure if time was a huge factor.

I think it’s more to do with do we go to an island that doesn’t really have anything to do, and ride a boat that we’ve already done before (which isn’t all that exciting and takes a while to load and unload or go to the next attraction?

I think there were ways to make tsi more attractive for guests, but that’s neither here nor there at this point.