News Cars-Themed Attractions at Magic Kingdom

[HauntedPirate]

God, there's an industry article on why they use this approach, for films. Let me see if I can find it. It's basically a balance of two things:

• Creating a new IP franchise is a tens-of-billions-in-profit opportunity with lots of risk
• Using an existing successful IP franchise generates more consistent revenue with less risk

I think the second point is on page 2 of Bob's book. The first one is a foreign concept.

 

[UNCgolf]

It includes movie revenue.

I'm aware of that, and it doesn't change my point even slightly. Everything I said still applies. Calling it a 70 year head start is misleading, and I think you know that, especially when you consider inflation, population growth, etc.

The numbers are what they are; there's no need to try to obfuscate them.

EDIT: Actually, I'm not even sure it does. It seems like it would, but I saw an article that suggested the $45.4 billion number is solely the money the Disney Princess brand has brought in since it was created in 2000, and doesn't include anything retroactive. But even it does include retroactive numbers, I'd guess at least 90% of that total (if not more) is since 2000, just by virtue of the things I mentioned above. It's the same reason top movies now have much higher box office numbers than movies from 30 or 40 years ago.

Anyways, this doesn't really matter, because Cars is obviously quite popular and brings in a ton of money. I'm not arguing against that. I think the stronger argument, though (and you alluded to this originally), is that the Princess IP is essentially 13 separate product lines. Someone only has to like one of the princesses to buy merchandise; they could dislike the other 12 and yet they're still making money for that brand. With Cars, it's just the one franchise, so as an individual IP it's arguably making more money than any of the individual IPs involved in the Princess brand.

 

[Quietmouse]

According to many in this thread, that is an ugly area and it should be removed.

I don’t think anyone is arguing that it’s ugly.

It’s clearly beautiful.

I think a more fair question would be, say it’s the year 2150 and all of the land available for magic kingdom is officially gone and built upon - would you still keep River of Americas or would you build on that land with one more land/attractions?

 

[ctrlaltdel]

I think the second point is on page 2 of Bob's book. The first one is a foreign concept.

Yeah Iger is more than willing to spend big money on parks or acquisitions. It just has to be a proven franchise that will bring guaranteed ROI in the worst case.

 

[Conor.Nam15]

Excellent draw-up. I think it will end up being somewhat similar to this, just eliminating the east side of ROA as well (the "river" will likely remain near Big Thunder to the current outlet IMO).

The problem with this is that it is only approx. 7 acres for villains, which would be quite small for a coaster and other major e ticket, retail, dining, etc. (though I suppose, as I have speculated, the coaster will go beyond the RR berm). If you eliminate the eastern and northern sides of ROA, you get to 10+ acres inside the RR berm.

I can see that… if the boat is docked, or gone, there would be no need to have a looping river. Even if they just keep the river as a divider between big thunder and villains, there’s still potential for a nice waterfront. Maybe not on the scale of what we have now, but better than nothing!

 

[ctrlaltdel]

I can see that… if the boat is docked, or gone, there would be no need to have a looping river. Even if they just keep the river as a divider between big thunder and villains, there’s still potential for a nice waterfront. Maybe not on the scale of what we have now, but better than nothing!

Yeah, I think ultimately that will be the case. keep some of ROA as a buffer from Big Thunder to Villains and keep Baig Thunder's waterfront intact. Obviously Villains will have an entrance from LS/Cars Frontierland, but I would also assume they are going to find a way from Fantasyland as well (makes thematic sense and I can't see them only limiting to one entrance/exit).

 

[HauntedPirate]

I don’t think anyone is arguing that it’s ugly.

It’s clearly beautiful.

I think a more fair question would be, say it’s the year 2150 and all of the land available for magic kingdom is officially gone and built upon - would you still keep River of Americas or would you build on that land with one more land/attractions?

There is a post (which I'm not going to quote) back on page 148 that calls it "the worst looking Rivers of America in any Disney park", and "I could have chosen worse pictures" when backing up the assertion. Others have made similar comments.

I'll have been dead for probably 100 years by 2150. I care about what MK will look like in 2028, not when Bob finally retires in 2150.

 

[Charlie The Chatbox Ghost]

Magic Kingdom version kinda does. Probably the worst one in the world. It’s such a nothing burger in comparison to the other ones. That’s why I think those of is who’re excited for it getting changed are excited even if we disagree with the chosen IP. It’s kind of unfortunate that the busiest park in the world has got the worst version of a cool land, and that’s gotta change.

There's only one other Frontierland that has a Country Bear Jamboree, so that makes MK's at least 2nd Place

 

[mickEblu]

See my comment above, water features in concept art

Will those be able to be enjoyed by people that aren't riding the attraction though? Also, have you seen the waterfall on RSR? Let's hope that isn't the scale haha. Two waterfalls (assuming they can be enjoyed by people not riding the attraction) is a far cry from the river that was a part of that whole side of the park. Even Grizzly Peak which everyone is comparing this to was built around GRR so you are walking by the river and/or waterfalls throughout the whole land.

 

[Quietmouse]

I really should work for imagineering.

If Tom Sawyer island included a themed brewery, with themed food trucks with adult and kids food, and they created an enclosed themed playground where parents can drink and eat and kids could play while supervised - while beating the heat at the same time , then the island would have been packed from open to close. Throw in photo op opportunities with Moana and Anna and Elsa and have a small merchandise stand inside the brewery and the island would have been profitable. Especially if the parents had a few drinks in them because that’s when you become less responsible with $$$



But alas, the island wasn’t utilized well and beyond a first visit there was no real exciting reason to return to the island. The boats likewise were cool, but again after your first visit you didn’t have a real need to go on it again, especially since loading and unloading ate up so much time.

So at the end of the day we have an island that looks cool, and a boat that looks cool. But what does it actually do beyond looking cool? Going on the boat once is cool. Going on the island once is cool. But you never feel the urgent need to go again.

I can ride, it’s a small world over and over again until my ears bleed. Same goes for many of the classic rides found at Disney world. Rides made you want to re-experience the action over and over again. But the boat and island have no repeat factor at all. And ultimately we are left with a boat and island that are pretty to look at but sit on a considerable amount of space.

 

[Grantwil93]

I was initially upset by this news. I still kinda am. However, the more I've sat on it, the more I'm at least understanding what they are going for. If they pull it off(big if) I actually think this will be great.

This tweet did make me understand the "why?" A lot better. Knowing what I know about operations, this getting done was something they probably begged for. Not "Cars" but removal of dead ends and other issues ahead of Villains.

I also get why the RoA may have been going regardless. I encourage everyone to read the tweet by Bill Zanetti as it sheds a ton of light on the situation.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Honestly, there are scenarios where removing the Rivers and TSI might be acceptable. It’s not one-of-a-kind like Muppets and if every other acre of potential expansion space was occupied it could be argued it’s underutilized space.

But…

1) There’s a lot of expansion space at MK if Disney chooses to use it. We’ve been talking about the Beyond Thunder and Moana plots for years, areas that will still remain vacant.

2) There are big areas of MK that NEED to be reworked, areas that actively detract from the overall experience - the entire Tomorrowland third of the park, most notably.

3) The current plan is a STAGGERING aesthetic downgrade - literally paving paradise and putting in a parking lot. It also ruins the entire plan of a third of the park to which the water is integral. It doesn’t even rise to the level of a first draft - it would barely be acceptable as a brainstorming product. It’s unfathomably lazy and a huge indictment of the Imagineers.

4) The current plan is a massive waste of space akin to Toy Story Land - making a big area seem small. Again, an indictment of the current design team.

5) The proposed ride is shockingly underwhelming. To justify a change of this magnitude, Disney needs a home-run blockbuster. Instead, we get an AA light outdoor modified Autopia which will be next to useless in the rain. It’s the Splash-to-Tiana failure on a much grander scale.

Honestly, this looks to be the worst change at the Florida parks since the loss of the original future world in the 90s. In many ways it’s actually worse, since it comes after decades of experience in ride replacements and has even less justification.

 

[Andrew C]

I was initially upset by this news. I still kinda am. However, the more I've sat on it, the more I'm at least understanding what they are going for. If they pull it off(big if) I actually think this will be great.

This tweet did make me understand the "why?" A lot better. Knowing what I know about operations, this getting done was something they probably begged for. Not "Cars" but removal of dead ends and other issues ahead of Villains.

I also get why the RoA may have been going regardless. I encourage everyone to read the tweet by Bill Zanetti as it sheds a ton of light on the situation.

Bill can go kick rocks.

 

[Haymarket2008]

It's also incongruent with the rest of Frontierland, which people have convinced themselves means rocks and trees, so it all fits, even if they're shaped like car parts and traversed by anthropomorphic cars.

Correct. It seems they are wanting it to be more Mineral King Ski Resort a la Country Bears lore. Which is.....fine, but there is no connective tissue anywhere else.

 

[Haymarket2008]

I shared this idea earlier, but I’ve clarified the concept. (Some armchair imagineering)

In the concept it appears they‘ve tried to keep the cars area facing north, with the south side made up of mostly rock work, maybe some frontier style buildings, and the back of the show buildings possibly to maintain the integrity of the frontier land street? The east side is mostly forest and rock work, the liberty belle dock building, and a small water feature which hopefully maintains the integrity of liberty square’s theming. And maybe on the west side they’ll build up the bayou aesthetic to work with tiana’s?

if they keep the northern section of ROA and dock the belle there, you’d have some killer views of big thunder and a nice natural area on a new waterfront to provide some scenery. Maybe some bridges crossing over the water flowing from tiana‘s bayou and the waterfall from cars?

possibly a mansion themed restaurant next to the haunted mansion show building to help transition to villains?

just some ideas… I know this likely won’t happen. But it seems like there is a path to doing this that doesn’t sacrifice the theming of each area, and may even be kind of cool.View attachment 809264

This would be the only scenario would be okay with.....if we MUST have Cars take over TSI.

 

[Dear Prudence]

Magic Kingdom version kinda does. Probably the worst one in the world. It’s such a nothing burger in comparison to the other ones. That’s why I think those of is who’re excited for it getting changed are excited even if we disagree with the chosen IP. It’s kind of unfortunate that the busiest park in the world has got the worst version of a cool land, and that’s gotta change.

Ngl, I always thought that the MK Frontierland was fugly.

 

[Casper Gutman]

I was initially upset by this news. I still kinda am. However, the more I've sat on it, the more I'm at least understanding what they are going for. If they pull it off(big if) I actually think this will be great.

This tweet did make me understand the "why?" A lot better. Knowing what I know about operations, this getting done was something they probably begged for. Not "Cars" but removal of dead ends and other issues ahead of Villains.

I also get why the RoA may have been going regardless. I encourage everyone to read the tweet by Bill Zanetti as it sheds a ton of light on the situation.

They KNOW it has to blow people out of the water! Just like they knew Tiana’s had to blow people out of the water! Look at how great that turned out! Why can’t we trust these poor execs making these hard decisions!

They think we’re idiots.

 

[Parker41056]

I shared this idea earlier, but I’ve clarified the concept. (Some armchair imagineering)

In the concept it appears they‘ve tried to keep the cars area facing north, with the south side made up of mostly rock work, maybe some frontier style buildings, and the back of the show buildings possibly to maintain the integrity of the frontier land street? The east side is mostly forest and rock work, the liberty belle dock building, and a small water feature which hopefully maintains the integrity of liberty square’s theming. And maybe on the west side they’ll build up the bayou aesthetic to work with tiana’s?

if they keep the northern section of ROA and dock the belle there, you’d have some killer views of big thunder and a nice natural area on a new waterfront to provide some scenery. Maybe some bridges crossing over the water flowing from tiana‘s bayou and the waterfall from cars?

possibly a mansion themed restaurant next to the haunted mansion show building to help transition to villains?

just some ideas… I know this likely won’t happen. But it seems like there is a path to doing this that doesn’t sacrifice the theming of each area, and may even be kind of cool.View attachment 809264

Would work perfect. I like how you could create a small Bayou area on the mountain side of cars as well.

 

[Haymarket2008]

Also have there been ANY indication about what happens with the water alley that connects to Seven Seas Lagoon?

Maybe there is some credence to them keeping half of the river because it is directly connected to that portion....Seems like an intense job to block that all up and have a backstage dock JUST for the Electrical Water Pageant....

 

[mickEblu]

All pretty.

All far from "paradise."

So what's your MO my guy? To always downplay the importance, quality or significance from anything at the Disney parks only AFTER it's been announced to be removed?