News Cars-Themed Attractions at Magic Kingdom

[Mr. Sullivan]

It seems every time people are upset with a change Disney makes there is someone writing it off as attachment to nostalgia. Yes, some time it is this, but sometimes it is actually a bad decision and sometime Disney listens, look at Harmonious.

Your post reminds me of the book Who Moved my Cheese? This book is often given to employees by their employers when big changes are happening. The general premise is to embrace change. I personally dislike this book because it sits on the false premise that all change is good and you should not resist it, which of course is what your employer wants you to think. There are times when change is not good, and it should be resisted.

That's a fair way of looking it. I guess what I would say in return is, we don't know what kind of change this is yet. We've not seen it.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

we don't know what kind of change this is yet. We've not seen it.

If the plan moves forward - we know what we are losing.

 

[Mr. Sullivan]

That’s not the kind of change we are talking about in this thread though?

To me, and I know others won't agree and that's fine, the proportions of the changes don't really matter. It's all part of these parks moving forward. Some changes are gonna be huge, some aren't, but change is always there and it's always necessary. It doesn't always work, there'll be swings and misses, but I don't think the potential for a miss should stop change from happening.

Even removing little changes completely, you point out Disneyland. It's seen a lot of very big change over the years, even recently. It's not been kept the same forever. The layout of the park is mostly the same sure, but what exists within that footprint has gone through many major evolutions. I'd argue even more than Magic Kingdom has.

 

[danlb_2000]

To me, and I know others won't agree and that's fine, the proportions of the changes don't really matter. It's all part of these parks moving forward. Some changes are gonna be huge, some aren't, but change is always there and it's always necessary. It doesn't always work, there'll be swings and misses, but I don't think the potential for a miss should stop change from happening.

Even removing little changes completely, you point out Disneyland. It's seen a lot of very big change over the years, even recently. It's not been kept the same forever. The layout of the park is mostly the same sure, but what exists within that footprint has gone through many major evolutions. I'd argue even more than Magic Kingdom has.

Nobody it saying the parks shouldn't change, we just want the Disney who used to take great care in the changes they made.

 

[Mr. Sullivan]

If the plan moves forward - we know what we are losing.

We know what we're losing. But we don't know what we're gaining. Yes, we can talk endlessly about the loss, but we can't really say that loss is a bad one until we see what we gained in exchange.

It's not a one to one comparison but just to sort of better explain what I mean, I look at something like what happened in Universal. When it was announced they were closing Jaws, that was a huge blow. I was young then but I remember vividly the backlash to it. People couldn't imagine the park without it, couldn't imagine anything could ever truly replace it. And then it's replacement came, and it's one of the greatest themed areas in ay theme park in the world.

Now I'm not saying that this Cars addition is gonna be on that level. It almost certainly isn't. But that doesn't mean it's going not going to be good. It's not a promise of being terrible simply because of where it's going.

When we see it, if it's a true downgrade, then that is totally game to point out. But i just don't think we can be saying that now when we've got nothing at all to look at. The loss of the river alone is not enough to decide right now what the quality of it's replacement is going to be when it's done in several years time.

 

[Mr. Sullivan]

Nobody it saying the parks shouldn't change, we just want the Disney who used to take great care in the changes they made.

As I said above, we don't know that they won't take great care yet. This could very well turn out to be a very well done, well handled, beautiful project.

It could be a dumpster fire.

We simply do not know yet. It's perfectly natural to discuss how it feels now to lose something, but I don't see how we can write off something that doesn't exist it yet solely because of what it's replacing.

 

[lazyboy97o]

As I said above, we don't know that they won't take great care yet. This could very well turn out to be a very well done, well handled, beautiful project.

It could be a dumpster fire.

We simply do not know yet. It's perfectly natural to discuss how it feels now to lose something, but I don't see how we can write off something that doesn't exist it yet solely because of what it's replacing.

You don’t always need the specifics when you are discussing the general.

The greatest attractions in the world all just dropped into a park would be a lousy themed park experience.

 

[Jedi14]

Nobody it saying the parks shouldn't change, we just want the Disney who used to take great care in the changes they made.

How do you know this isn’t “that Disney” working on this change?

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Even removing little changes completely, you point out Disneyland. It's seen a lot of very big change over the years, even recently.

Some good, and some really bad.

 

[SpaceMountain77]

I know this is stupid, but I have been thinking about D23 2022 and the "Have you ever wondered what lies beyond Big Thunder Mountain?" line. Now, I randomly laugh at the best response. "Nothing, but Cars is now where the Rivers of America and Tom Sawyer Island used to be."

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

I know this is stupid, but I have been thinking about D23 2022 and the "Have you ever wondered what lies beyond Big Thunder Mountain?" line. Now, I randomly laugh at the best response. "Nothing, but Cars is now where the Rivers of America and Tom Sawyer Island used to be."

It’s only stupid cause it’s the ultimate lead us on!

What’s beyond Big Thunder? The enchanting worlds of Coco and Encanto! NOPE! - nothing. But we will replace the heart of Frontierland with ATVs and give you some waterfalls. Churros are back!

 

[flynnibus]

Anyway, sorry for the big wall of text here but I just kinda wanna share my overall intention with most of what I've said about this project because I don't want to be seen as the argumentative one on here all the time and I know there's been times I have been just that lol

Disney fans are a nostalgic group of people. More so than many fan bases are. And as such, I think they have a harder time dealing with and confronting change than a lot of other fanbases do. And that makes sense! The Disney parks are physical, tangible places that we have visited and interacted with. It's natural to have formed such a close connection to things having been present to interact with them.

But the damaging thing this nostalgia does to us is that it exists in spite of the one constant the Disney parks have always offered: it changes constantly.

No generation of Disney fan has ever gotten to keep their Disney. Every single generation of fan has had to watch the parks change. The people who were kids in the 1950s and 1960s fell in love with one version of Disneyland and then when they took their kids in the 80s, they had to walk around and see how much it had changed and think "wow this isn't my Disney anymore." The people who were kids in the 70s and walked around Magic Kingdom came back with their kids in the 90s, saw how much it changed, and thought "wow this isn't my Disney anymore." My generation walked around the parks as kids in the 2000s and I'll one day be going with my kids and younger family and looking around thinking "wow this isn't my Disney anymore."

Every generation has gone through this. But I think a lot of Disney fans that are present on these forums and on social media are having to experience this now for the first time. Sure, they've lost some attractions along the way, but these parks are now actively going through MASSIVE changes.

I don't think for most though they'll try to argue otherwise that their core issue here is that Cars doesn't belong in Frontierland or that RoA is about beauty and calm and placemaking and shouldn't leave, it's that this is a change they're maybe just not ready for yet. It hurts to lose because it makes it impossible to ignore that the Disney they grew up with and have spent most of their life with so far is fading away now.

But, to me anyway, that's what's so special about these parks. Every generation gets a different Disney. For many, 2000s Disney was a far, far, far cry from the one they had always known and they didn't really like it. But I loved and adored it because it was my Disney, and I'll mourn it when big pieces of it begin to disappear. Yes, RoA has spanned multiple generations now, but I again reiterate that at its core, this isn't about the river, it's about knowing you're gonna be saying goodbye to a lot of you've cherished for a long time.

And that's hard. It's super hard. But it can be beautiful if you choose to look at it that way.

Someone else now is getting the chance to discover a different Disney and fall in love with it. It's going to make them very, very happy. Maybe it's losing magic for you, but they're gonna come find it and to them it's going to be the most magical place in the world. They'll one day lose their Disney too, and they'll lash out too. It's a cycle that will never end.

But honestly, I think you can learn to love what Disney's turning into if you let yourself let go of what you'd prefer it to stay. There's something magical still to be found in coming along with the new generation and getting to see Disney through their eyes, allowing them to find their magic. Maybe it isn't your magic, but you can still find enjoyment in seeing a new generation get their dream parks if you allow yourself.

It's never going to feel good if you sit and cross your arms and scream constantly at this new generation that their Disney sucks. It'll only keep you sour, and it'll in the process sour their experience too.

This is a massive change. One of the biggest changes that these parks has undergone in years. It's a lot to take in, and I'm sure once it's really underway, it'll be overwhelming. But I do genuinely implore those of you who've reacted to this so passionately to think about this, and think about how things just can't stay the same forever and how bad it would be if they did. Change has to happen. It just has to. That's what these places are about. Marching forward, finding new horizons, and giving this new generation something of their own.

Disney isn't going to look like it does now forever. It won't look like what form it takes when this 10 year plan is done forever either. When we're all long gone, Disney will once more look different, probably even unrecognizable compared to today. You can choose to find that scary or you can choose to be excited about it. Not everything is going to be a winner for every person, but I think we can all agree that at the end of the day we want the people who're just discovering Disney to come in and find something that they love. That's what is happening here.

Yes, it's cynical business. But the truth is, it always has been. It was behind closed doors and not so naked before, but this has always been a business. Walt talked a lot about creativity and imagination and yes it was there, but he was also running a business. Roy was running a business. Michael Eisner talked the same talk, but he too was running a business. We just didn't see it that way, because we had our Disney whatever that Disney was. Now that some of you don't or are in the process of losing it, it all looks bleak and dark and evil.

Be upset. Let it out. But when the time comes, really try to look at it through the lens of this is going to be someone else's special place, creating a whole new generation of devotee. Maybe that's not for you, but you can let it be for them and not sit there arms folded being a grump to rain on their parade. I'm sure you hated seeing that when it was aimed at your special place.

Sorry for the long winded wall of text, I just think this project in particular is the perfect encapsulation of the ever constant cycle of happiness and sadness that Disney fans put themselves through. It's always been there, and always will be. It's just that a lot of people are having to experience a massive charge to the Next Disney that isn't being done slowly but rather all at once for the first time and they just don't know how to handle it which i can get.

I guess all I gotta say is just...really try to find the magic that's out there in this. Maybe it isn't in the attraction itself for you, maybe its in getting to see the joy it'll bring to others. You can find a lot of joy in someone else's joy if you allow yourself too. The negative feelings you feel are there because you allow them to be and you lean into them. You can be more optimistic and welcoming of the future if only you'd allow yourself to just accept that things change, and nobody gets to keep the Disney they fell in love with forever.

It's a loss we one day will ALL have to experience. But such is the nature of the parks that are always meant to move forward, never stopping.

So you wrote all that to simply say you won’t listen to why people are bothered because you are just going to conclude on your own what their real feelings are.

Missing in you statement is the obvious that this is not the first change these fans have experienced. You don’t need to explain ‘change is hard’ to us- we’re grown adults.

Also missing from your statement is acknowledgment of the history of why so many are soured by Disney’s changes of the last 20 yrs.

Change isn’t always disney tearing down monstanto’s house to get us a new tomorrowland. There have been plenty of sour changes… and the issue is so many have lost faith in Disney’s ability to deliver on BETTER in all their change.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

and the issue is so many have lost faith in Disney’s ability to deliver on BETTER in all their change.

Don’t you see…… the children of today will fall in love with a questionably shaped planter and appreciate it just as much as we enjoyed the fountain of nations.

 

[Jedi14]

It’s only stupid cause it’s the ultimate lead us on!

What’s beyond Big Thunder? The enchanting worlds of Coco and Encanto! NOPE! - nothing. But we will replace the heart of Frontierland with ATVs and give you some waterfalls. Churros are back!

Villains are beyond Big Thunder.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Your post reminds me of the book Who Moved my Cheese?

I have never heard of this book, but the title is hilarious to me.

As if a group of executives decided "moving cheese" was a change inoffensive enough on its own to be the metaphor.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Maybe it did come across that way, but again I don't think any of that is a diagnosis. That is just how people behave. Every single person does that sort of thing.

So I’ll use your own quotes making the opposite point -

Some people just like change, but the beauty of Disney Parks is they are rooted in nostalgia…

And that's hard. It's super hard. But it can be beautiful if you choose to look at it that way.

It's never going to feel good if you sit and cross your arms and scream constantly at this new old generation that their Disney sucks. It'll only keep you sour, and it'll in the process sour their experience too.

 

[CoasterCowboy67]

Some people just like change, but the beauty of Disney Parks is they are rooted in nostalgia…

Disney wasn’t and isn’t always nostalgic. It was once all new, and delighted generations of people with brand new experiences with which they had zero nostalgic attachment. Some people have still never been to a park, and going for the first time today, even as adults.

Much of the parks has to do with looking forward to the future, or about experiencing the exotic in modern day. It’s not always backward looking

So I disagree nostalgia is a requirement for Disney to feel magical. It’s just the prevailing sentiment here that drives an aversion to change

 

[phillip9698]

And you called my example bad? I can’t even understand your leap.

Case in point… what made disney parks great was they insight to know what would create greatness…. Before the audience even knew it was possible. Building the solution the mob says you should build will only ever get you a hot mess

There is a clear bias in this forum against coasters. You used Primevil Whirl as an example of why the person asking for more coasters has sucky ideas, your words not mine. By that same token I could hand the guest begging for more dark rides Superstar Limo and everyone would be just as disappointed.


It doesn't matter what type of ride it is, if it's bad then people have the right to crap on it no matter what ride system they hoped for.

You are right, Disney has had a knack for giving people things they didn't know was possible. And they are still doing that for the most part, it all just has IPs slapped on top. And that is the underlying problem most here have with current disney, the IP mandate.

But this has nothing to do with any of that, this is a case of Disney taking away something the guests have shown they do not want for decades!

 

[lazyboy97o]

There is a clear bias in this forum against coasters. You used Primevil Whirl as an example of why the person asking for more coasters has sucky ideas, your words not mine. By that same token I could hand the guest begging for more dark rides Superstar Limo and everyone would be just as disappointed.

Roller coasters are the go to example because they are the singular answer to giving people what they want and being the best business decision. There’s a reason so many parks have pivoted to a focus on coasters.

 

[flynnibus]

There is a clear bias in this forum against coasters. You used Primevil Whirl as an example of why the person asking for more coasters has sucky ideas, your words not mine. By that same token I could hand the guest begging for more dark rides Superstar Limo and everyone would be just as disappointed.

Do I need to break out the training wheels and spell out that Primevial Whirl is a cheap design compared to a full fledged design like Everest? And at the same, money is not unlimited, and if you want more of something, you gotta spend less on each one? You follow yet?

The whole point was if you asked people if they just want MAWR, of course they are going to say MAWR? Because the public don't shoulder the burden of making the hard choices... they just want to consume.

I'll give you a spoiler - The public doesn't consider practicalities... if you ask them if you want more of something, if they like that topic, they are only going to say YES, GIVE ME MAWR!

The public don't think through the whole thing... they only care about their narrow view of the universe.

Or to put it in perspective of this thread...

If you ask the mob: "Do you want new attractions at Disney?"
The mob is going to answer "OF COURSE I DO!"

The mob do not burden themselves with what the consequence of getting something new is when answering. A flawed poll is still a flawed source of justification.