News Cars-Themed Attractions at Magic Kingdom

[DisneyHead123]

All that is possible but it’s also anecdotal. With that said, do I think Cars offers potentially more “store” sales? Possibly, but I’m not sure what that has to do with the placement of the Cars ride on TSI.
Not saying billion dollar organizations don’t make mistakes. Heck, I think they make more mistakes than they hit it out of the park, but I would have a hard time believing that TSI was picked using a dart and a dart board. Refer back to my original statement, not saying it’s fact but there is smoke with this expansion just being the beginning.

I mean I don't think it was a dart board, but I think it was questions like "What are our biggest IPs?" "What does X or Y demographic like?", etc. I think the question of "Does this work in Frontierland?" was maybe question four, five, or six on that list, and was more like "Could we kinda sorta make this not completely nonsensical in Frontierland?"

 

[Mr. Sullivan]

I mean I don't think it was a dart board, but I think it was questions like "What are our biggest IPs?" "What does X or Y demographic like?", etc. I think the question of "Does this work in Frontierland?" was maybe question four, five, or six on that list, and was more like "Could we kinda sorta make this not completely nonsensical in Frontierland?"

To be fair, I would say Frontierland has consistently been looser than most of the other lands in terms of what they do with it. Not necessarily this loose, but loose nonetheless and for many, many, many years now. It has made sense to us because we're used to it, but on paper I definitely think for those uninitiated, Frontierland just kinda looks like a lot of different things that don't completely go together put in one space. It's not as consistent as Fantasyland or Adventureland in terms of what fits there. It's kinda become Tomorrowland West Side in that respect over the years.

Granted, Cars is a big outlier. Bigger than the outliers of the past have been. That I completely agree with.

But, I'm gonna wait and see how they do it before a final judgement call on that. It's going to live and die by how it appears not by what it is. Appearance is what has traditionally tied Frontierland together in my eyes because the actual concepts and stories within have been very mish-mash for a long, long time now. Honestly feels like it hasn't actually been about the Frontier and the west for ages.

 

[Quietmouse]

I’m not a purist, and I don’t agree at all.

That’s great.

Unfortunately it feels like, especially on this board, if you aren’t unsupportive of this decision it’s as if you have 2 heads and are outcasted.

There’s a lot of reasons why this decision makes sense and why it can be seen as an upgrade over the current offerings of roa.

 

[CoasterCowboy67]

They got there by breaking the rules. By not allowing there to ever be a status quo, never allowing something to be infinite. The Disney parks got where they are precisely because they didn’t stick to rules, not by creating rules.

These parks are designed to change. Nothing is supposed to last forever. A long time, sure, but real creatives don’t design something that’s going to sit there forever and ever to the point it’s lost its luster and its relevance. They will get the desire to come in and create something new to take it’s place because time always moves forward and the needs of the time you land in will be different than the one you left.

Letting something just sit simply because it’s been there for a long time is no way to run a theme park. That’s the quickest way to kill a park.

Absolutely. Some people here averse to change don’t realize change and innovation are in Disney’s DNA since it’s founding. Some of these “classics” have been around to be enjoyed for decades. We need to make room for new classics and experiences, or else the park will remain a time capsule. It’s impossible to expect the parks to continuously expand forever. You have to update and replace as rides reach their life

This is part of life

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

I'm not trying to diagnose anyone.

Your post did come across that way.

And once again I’ll quote Joe Rohde -

“ People step out of the chaos and into an ordered ceremonial world where time is arrested. Beloved important moments are re-enacted in a space that is outside of history.

That's why it's such a shock when time intrudes, either with changes, or more tellingly with new events that are too anchored in contemporary relevance. “

 

[LittleBuford]

That’s great.

Unfortunately it feels like, especially on this board, if you aren’t unsupportive of this decision it’s as if you have 2 heads and are outcasted.

There’s a lot of reasons why this decision makes sense and why it can be seen as an upgrade over the current offerings of roa.

I don't think either viewpoint is illegitimate. It's just that some people think that theirs is the only valid opinion.

 

[DisneyHead123]

Anyway, sorry for the big wall of text here but I just kinda wanna share my overall intention with most of what I've said about this project because I don't want to be seen as the argumentative one on here all the time and I know there's been times I have been just that lol

Disney fans are a nostalgic group of people. More so than many fan bases are. And as such, I think they have a harder time dealing with and confronting change than a lot of other fanbases do. And that makes sense! The Disney parks are physical, tangible places that we have visited and interacted with. It's natural to have formed such a close connection to things having been present to interact with them.

But the damaging thing this nostalgia does to us is that it exists in spite of the one constant the Disney parks have always offered: it changes constantly.

No generation of Disney fan has ever gotten to keep their Disney. Every single generation of fan has had to watch the parks change. The people who were kids in the 1950s and 1960s fell in love with one version of Disneyland and then when they took their kids in the 80s, they had to walk around and see how much it had changed and think "wow this isn't my Disney anymore." The people who were kids in the 70s and walked around Magic Kingdom came back with their kids in the 90s, saw how much it changed, and thought "wow this isn't my Disney anymore." My generation walked around the parks as kids in the 2000s and I'll one day be going with my kids and younger family and looking around thinking "wow this isn't my Disney anymore."

Every generation has gone through this. But I think a lot of Disney fans that are present on these forums and on social media are having to experience this now for the first time. Sure, they've lost some attractions along the way, but these parks are now actively going through MASSIVE changes.

I don't think for most though they'll try to argue otherwise that their core issue here is that Cars doesn't belong in Frontierland or that RoA is about beauty and calm and placemaking and shouldn't leave, it's that this is a change they're maybe just not ready for yet. It hurts to lose because it makes it impossible to ignore that the Disney they grew up with and have spent most of their life with so far is fading away now.

But, to me anyway, that's what's so special about these parks. Every generation gets a different Disney. For many, 2000s Disney was a far, far, far cry from the one they had always known and they didn't really like it. But I loved and adored it because it was my Disney, and I'll mourn it when big pieces of it begin to disappear. Yes, RoA has spanned multiple generations now, but I again reiterate that at its core, this isn't about the river, it's about knowing you're gonna be saying goodbye to a lot of you've cherished for a long time.

And that's hard. It's super hard. But it can be beautiful if you choose to look at it that way.

Someone else now is getting the chance to discover a different Disney and fall in love with it. It's going to make them very, very happy. Maybe it's losing magic for you, but they're gonna come find it and to them it's going to be the most magical place in the world. They'll one day lose their Disney too, and they'll lash out too. It's a cycle that will never end.

But honestly, I think you can learn to love what Disney's turning into if you let yourself let go of what you'd prefer it to stay. There's something magical still to be found in coming along with the new generation and getting to see Disney through their eyes, allowing them to find their magic. Maybe it isn't your magic, but you can still find enjoyment in seeing a new generation get their dream parks if you allow yourself.

It's never going to feel good if you sit and cross your arms and scream constantly at this new generation that their Disney sucks. It'll only keep you sour, and it'll in the process sour their experience too.

This is a massive change. One of the biggest changes that these parks has undergone in years. It's a lot to take in, and I'm sure once it's really underway, it'll be overwhelming. But I do genuinely implore those of you who've reacted to this so passionately to think about this, and think about how things just can't stay the same forever and how bad it would be if they did. Change has to happen. It just has to. That's what these places are about. Marching forward, finding new horizons, and giving this new generation something of their own.

Disney isn't going to look like it does now forever. It won't look like what form it takes when this 10 year plan is done forever either. When we're all long gone, Disney will once more look different, probably even unrecognizable compared to today. You can choose to find that scary or you can choose to be excited about it. Not everything is going to be a winner for every person, but I think we can all agree that at the end of the day we want the people who're just discovering Disney to come in and find something that they love. That's what is happening here.

Yes, it's cynical business. But the truth is, it always has been. It was behind closed doors and not so naked before, but this has always been a business. Walt talked a lot about creativity and imagination and yes it was there, but he was also running a business. Roy was running a business. Michael Eisner talked the same talk, but he too was running a business. We just didn't see it that way, because we had our Disney whatever that Disney was. Now that some of you don't or are in the process of losing it, it all looks bleak and dark and evil.

Be upset. Let it out. But when the time comes, really try to look at it through the lens of this is going to be someone else's special place, creating a whole new generation of devotee. Maybe that's not for you, but you can let it be for them and not sit there arms folded being a grump to rain on their parade. I'm sure you hated seeing that when it was aimed at your special place.

Sorry for the long winded wall of text, I just think this project in particular is the perfect encapsulation of the ever constant cycle of happiness and sadness that Disney fans put themselves through. It's always been there, and always will be. It's just that a lot of people are having to experience a massive charge to the Next Disney that isn't being done slowly but rather all at once for the first time and they just don't know how to handle it which i can get.

I guess all I gotta say is just...really try to find the magic that's out there in this. Maybe it isn't in the attraction itself for you, maybe its in getting to see the joy it'll bring to others. You can find a lot of joy in someone else's joy if you allow yourself too. The negative feelings you feel are there because you allow them to be and you lean into them. You can be more optimistic and welcoming of the future if only you'd allow yourself to just accept that things change, and nobody gets to keep the Disney they fell in love with forever.

It's a loss we one day will ALL have to experience. But such is the nature of the parks that are always meant to move forward, never stopping.

I appreciate you sharing your perspective, I do. And if I saw it this way, I would agree with you. But this is not how I see it. I don't think this is about accepting change to usher in some beautiful new thing that will be beloved by future generations. I think it's a mistake, brought about by focusing on the wrong things (IP, frantically trying to figure out what young people want). I think it's taking vintage Disney and replacing it with something more on the level of Toy Story Land. And ultimately I think that regardless of age, everyone would like vintage Disney better in the long term.

I've said before, if they wanted to replace RoA with something like New Orleans Square because the infrastructure of RoA is too hard to maintain or the water is a liability or they really need the space - ok, I would be sad, but I would get that. I think that if done right, that could actually be replacing something beloved with something beautiful for the next generation. But Cars over RoA? No, I'm just not seeing it. Maybe I'll be proven wrong, but as of now I'm just not seeing it.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Unfortunately it feels like, especially on this board, if you aren’t unsupportive of this decision it’s as if you have 2 heads and are outcasted.

Well you have to define what “this decision” is? There’s quite a few decisions wrapped up in this.

 

[Mr. Sullivan]

Your post did come across that way.

And once again I’ll quote Joe Rohde -

“ People step out of the chaos and into an ordered ceremonial world where time is arrested. Beloved important moments are re-enacted in a space that is outside of history.

That's why it's such a shock when time intrudes, either with changes, or more tellingly with new events that are too anchored in contemporary relevance. “

Maybe it did come across that way, but again I don't think any of that is a diagnosis. That is just how people behave. Every single person does that sort of thing.

As for the quote, yes it's a shock and it's jarring but I again don't think that's a bad thing. I think it's a good thing. It would be terrible for these parks to stay the same. They need to change. They have to change. It's just part of it.

Everyone's gotta say goodbye to the version of Disney they found eventually. Time always marches on, and I don't think that should be stopped just because it makes some people uncomfortable or upset. Change is hard, but it's necessary.

 

[DisneyHead123]

To be fair, I would say Frontierland has consistently been looser than most of the other lands in terms of what they do with it. Not necessarily this loose, but loose nonetheless and for many, many, many years now. It has made sense to us because we're used to it, but on paper I definitely think for those uninitiated, Frontierland just kinda looks like a lot of different things that don't completely go together put in one space. It's not as consistent as Fantasyland or Adventureland in terms of what fits there. It's kinda become Tomorrowland West Side in that respect over the years.

Granted, Cars is a big outlier. Bigger than the outliers of the past have been. That I completely agree with.

But, I'm gonna wait and see how they do it before a final judgement call on that. It's going to live and die by how it appears not by what it is. Appearance is what has traditionally tied Frontierland together in my eyes because the actual concepts and stories within have been very mish-mash for a long, long time now. Honestly feels like it hasn't actually been about the Frontier and the west for ages.

To me the Frontierland vibe is charming, vintage, and quaint while a Cars ride-land ride seems cartoonish, commercial, and fast paced.

I have nothing against Cars in other places - I would welcome them. In this location though? To me these vibes just don't match. That's just my opinion, of course.

 

[Mr. Sullivan]

I appreciate you sharing your perspective, I do. And if I saw it this way, I would agree with you. But this is not how I see it. I don't think this is about accepting change to usher in some beautiful new thing that will be beloved by future generations. I think it's a mistake, brought about by focusing on the wrong things (IP, frantically trying to figure out what young people want). I think it's taking vintage Disney and replacing it with something more on the level of Toy Story Land. And ultimately I think that regardless of age, everyone would like vintage Disney better in the long term.

I've said before, if they wanted to replace RoA with something like New Orleans Square because the infrastructure of RoA is too hard to maintain or the water is a liability or they really need the space - ok, I would be sad, but I would get that. I think that if done right, that could actually be replacing something beloved with something beautiful for the next generation. But Cars over RoA? No, I'm just not seeing it. Maybe I'll be proven wrong, but as of now I'm just not seeing it.

I appreciate that, and I appreciate you reading all that. My post history doesn't always show it, but I genuinely don't like to be argumentative or always be in some debate. I do often though catch myself responding to things with annoyance and need to get better about catching myself before I hit post and thinking about what I want to say more thoughtfully and productively. I can't ask for people to calm down when I myself am also not calm lol

I suppose your last bit is ultimately is a good takeaway point.

We don't know what this is going to be or look like yet. So all of the hurt, worry, anger, all of it is based upon nothing but concept art, the confirmation that RoA will one day not exist, and the terrible images we're all very good at cooking up in our heads. When the new stuff is here and we actually see it and if it turns out to be a turkey, then even I will join in on saying it's a mistake.

But I just can't say something is a mistake or the wrong choice when it doesn't exist yet. There's a lot of things, not just at Disney but in general, that on paper sound like a horrible idea that end up coming out working just fine. It very well could come out bad. It very well could come out great. I can't really say one way or another right now because there's just nothing to go off of.

And for many I know the mere idea is enough, but I guess I personally just cannot assign a thumbs up or thumbs down to something I cannot see, but I need to remind myself that that's not going to be the case for everyone.

 

[Mr. Sullivan]

To me the Frontierland vibe is charming, vintage, and quaint while a Cars ride-land ride seems cartoonish, commercial, and fast paced.

I have nothing against Cars in other places - I would welcome them. In this location though? To me these vibes just don't match. That's just my opinion, of course.

And yeah, from day one I have been very specifically unsure about Cars, but my above is where I'm kinda at with it.

The land to me is already a mish-mash hodge podge of stuff, so I just gotta wait and see if this is more hodge podge that is made to look like it belongs or if it does actually stick out. I think it could still really go either way.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

It would be terrible for these parks to stay the same. They need to change. They have to change. It's just part of it.

Why? The vast majority of Disneyland park has been the same for decades, and a very good number of attractions operating at Disneyland are older than WDW.

I think Disneyland is a much better park because of that.

 

[DisneyHead123]

I appreciate that, and I appreciate you reading all that. My post history doesn't always show it, but I genuinely don't like to be argumentative or always be in some debate. I do often though catch myself responding to things with annoyance and need to get better about catching myself before I hit post and thinking about what I want to say more thoughtfully and productively. I can't ask for people to calm down when I myself am also not calm lol

I suppose your last bit is ultimately is a good takeaway point.

We don't know what this is going to be or look like yet. So all of the hurt, worry, anger, all of it is based upon nothing but concept art, the confirmation that RoA will one day not exist, and the terrible images we're all very good at cooking up in our heads. When the new stuff is here and we actually see it and if it turns out to be a turkey, then even I will join in on saying it's a mistake.

But I just can't say something is a mistake or the wrong choice when it doesn't exist yet. There's a lot of things, not just at Disney but in general, that on paper sound like a horrible idea that end up coming out working just fine. It very well could come out bad. It very well could come out great. I can't really say one way or another right now because there's just nothing to go off of.

And for many I know the mere idea is enough, but I guess I personally just cannot assign a thumbs up or thumbs down to something I cannot see, but I need to remind myself that that's not going to be the case for everyone.

Sure, I think that's fair. No one can judge until we see the final product, it's all just speculation at this point. I just wanted to point out that when people complain it's brushed away as "You just don't like change" (not just by you,) and I don't think that's fair. Some percentage of people might not like any change, ok. But many people are open to change, they just see this particular change as pretty misguided for various reasons.

 

[Mr. Sullivan]

Why? The vast majority of Disneyland park has been the same for decades, and a very good number of attractions operating at Disneyland are older than WDW.

I think Disneyland is a much better park because of that.

Disneyland has seen quite a bit of change.

None of the rides off the top of my head are the same as they were on their opening day. They've taken stuff away and replaced it with new things. They've completely changed the layout and structure of the resort a few times now.

Change is not always as big as removing the Rivers of America. Change is sometimes small, but it is always there. Disneyland has changed a ton over the years. That change is more noticeable in the long term (the park it is in 2024 and the park it was in 1955 could not be more different), but it's even noticeable in the short term. Compare Disneyland in 2014 to Disneyland in 2024. There's quite a lot of difference there in multiple different aspects.

As for why, that's how these parks survive. Letting them stagnate is the worst decision they could make. Worse than any misplaced attraction could ever be, imo.

 

[Schmidt]

I mean I don't think it was a dart board, but I think it was questions like "What are our biggest IPs?" "What does X or Y demographic like?", etc. I think the question of "Does this work in Frontierland?" was maybe question four, five, or six on that list, and was more like "Could we kinda sorta make this not completely nonsensical in Frontierland?"

lol. Doubtful.

 

[Mr. Sullivan]

Sure, I think that's fair. No one can judge until we see the final product, it's all just speculation at this point. I just wanted to point out that when people complain it's brushed away as "You just don't like change" (not just by you,) and I don't think that's fair. Some percentage of people might not like any change, ok. But many people are open to change, they just see this particular change as pretty misguided for various reasons.

That's fair, and something I need to keep in mind more. Circles back to I don't like emotional reactions, and yet react emotionally myself more than I care to admit lol

 

[DisneyHead123]

That's fair, and something I need to keep in mind more. Circles back to I don't like emotional reactions, and yet react emotionally myself more than I care to admit lol

Ah, well, don't we all!

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Change is not always as big as removing the Rivers of America. Change is sometimes small, but it is always there.

That’s not the kind of change we are talking about in this thread though?

 

[danlb_2000]

Anyway, sorry for the big wall of text here but I just kinda wanna share my overall intention with most of what I've said about this project because I don't want to be seen as the argumentative one on here all the time and I know there's been times I have been just that lol

Disney fans are a nostalgic group of people. More so than many fan bases are. And as such, I think they have a harder time dealing with and confronting change than a lot of other fanbases do. And that makes sense! The Disney parks are physical, tangible places that we have visited and interacted with. It's natural to have formed such a close connection to things having been present to interact with them.

But the damaging thing this nostalgia does to us is that it exists in spite of the one constant the Disney parks have always offered: it changes constantly.

No generation of Disney fan has ever gotten to keep their Disney. Every single generation of fan has had to watch the parks change. The people who were kids in the 1950s and 1960s fell in love with one version of Disneyland and then when they took their kids in the 80s, they had to walk around and see how much it had changed and think "wow this isn't my Disney anymore." The people who were kids in the 70s and walked around Magic Kingdom came back with their kids in the 90s, saw how much it changed, and thought "wow this isn't my Disney anymore." My generation walked around the parks as kids in the 2000s and I'll one day be going with my kids and younger family and looking around thinking "wow this isn't my Disney anymore."

Every generation has gone through this. But I think a lot of Disney fans that are present on these forums and on social media are having to experience this now for the first time. Sure, they've lost some attractions along the way, but these parks are now actively going through MASSIVE changes.

I don't think for most though they'll try to argue otherwise that their core issue here is that Cars doesn't belong in Frontierland or that RoA is about beauty and calm and placemaking and shouldn't leave, it's that this is a change they're maybe just not ready for yet. It hurts to lose because it makes it impossible to ignore that the Disney they grew up with and have spent most of their life with so far is fading away now.

But, to me anyway, that's what's so special about these parks. Every generation gets a different Disney. For many, 2000s Disney was a far, far, far cry from the one they had always known and they didn't really like it. But I loved and adored it because it was my Disney, and I'll mourn it when big pieces of it begin to disappear. Yes, RoA has spanned multiple generations now, but I again reiterate that at its core, this isn't about the river, it's about knowing you're gonna be saying goodbye to a lot of you've cherished for a long time.

And that's hard. It's super hard. But it can be beautiful if you choose to look at it that way.

Someone else now is getting the chance to discover a different Disney and fall in love with it. It's going to make them very, very happy. Maybe it's losing magic for you, but they're gonna come find it and to them it's going to be the most magical place in the world. They'll one day lose their Disney too, and they'll lash out too. It's a cycle that will never end.

But honestly, I think you can learn to love what Disney's turning into if you let yourself let go of what you'd prefer it to stay. There's something magical still to be found in coming along with the new generation and getting to see Disney through their eyes, allowing them to find their magic. Maybe it isn't your magic, but you can still find enjoyment in seeing a new generation get their dream parks if you allow yourself.

It's never going to feel good if you sit and cross your arms and scream constantly at this new generation that their Disney sucks. It'll only keep you sour, and it'll in the process sour their experience too.

This is a massive change. One of the biggest changes that these parks has undergone in years. It's a lot to take in, and I'm sure once it's really underway, it'll be overwhelming. But I do genuinely implore those of you who've reacted to this so passionately to think about this, and think about how things just can't stay the same forever and how bad it would be if they did. Change has to happen. It just has to. That's what these places are about. Marching forward, finding new horizons, and giving this new generation something of their own.

Disney isn't going to look like it does now forever. It won't look like what form it takes when this 10 year plan is done forever either. When we're all long gone, Disney will once more look different, probably even unrecognizable compared to today. You can choose to find that scary or you can choose to be excited about it. Not everything is going to be a winner for every person, but I think we can all agree that at the end of the day we want the people who're just discovering Disney to come in and find something that they love. That's what is happening here.

Yes, it's cynical business. But the truth is, it always has been. It was behind closed doors and not so naked before, but this has always been a business. Walt talked a lot about creativity and imagination and yes it was there, but he was also running a business. Roy was running a business. Michael Eisner talked the same talk, but he too was running a business. We just didn't see it that way, because we had our Disney whatever that Disney was. Now that some of you don't or are in the process of losing it, it all looks bleak and dark and evil.

Be upset. Let it out. But when the time comes, really try to look at it through the lens of this is going to be someone else's special place, creating a whole new generation of devotee. Maybe that's not for you, but you can let it be for them and not sit there arms folded being a grump to rain on their parade. I'm sure you hated seeing that when it was aimed at your special place.

Sorry for the long winded wall of text, I just think this project in particular is the perfect encapsulation of the ever constant cycle of happiness and sadness that Disney fans put themselves through. It's always been there, and always will be. It's just that a lot of people are having to experience a massive charge to the Next Disney that isn't being done slowly but rather all at once for the first time and they just don't know how to handle it which i can get.

I guess all I gotta say is just...really try to find the magic that's out there in this. Maybe it isn't in the attraction itself for you, maybe its in getting to see the joy it'll bring to others. You can find a lot of joy in someone else's joy if you allow yourself too. The negative feelings you feel are there because you allow them to be and you lean into them. You can be more optimistic and welcoming of the future if only you'd allow yourself to just accept that things change, and nobody gets to keep the Disney they fell in love with forever.

It's a loss we one day will ALL have to experience. But such is the nature of the parks that are always meant to move forward, never stopping.

It seems every time people are upset with a change Disney makes there is someone writing it off as attachment to nostalgia. Yes, some time it is this, but sometimes it is actually a bad decision and sometime Disney listens, look at Harmonious.

Your post reminds me of the book Who Moved my Cheese? This book is often given to employees by their employers when big changes are happening. The general premise is to embrace change. I personally dislike this book because it sits on the false premise that all change is good and you should not resist it, which of course is what your employer wants you to think. There are times when change is not good, and it should be resisted.