ALso everywhere you go is flooded with people wearing their modern clothing and disney hats and bubble wands lol. No matter how well themed a land is, its always full of regular modern day people wearing disney clothing
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News Cars-Themed Attractions at Magic Kingdom
- Thread starter wdwmagic
- Start date
CoasterCowboy67
Well-Known Member
No, you don’t understand statistics despite repeatedly misusing the word. I didn’t make any statistical claim. I have tried to explain the difference between the argument you want to have and the reality of what I said and the point I was making
The fact is, one person spending 4 days going to 4 theme parks has more weight, and is representative of much more investment, than counting that as 1 unique visitor because it was the same person that went to all 4 parks
I am measuring total consumption of the parks, not unique visitors. I never claimed the latter. Please read the posts again before making inane generalizations about someone else’s understanding of statistics. You’re only making yourself an example of the problem you’re so concerned about.
The one valid note on my math are park hopper days when a person visits multiple parks on one day. I don’t know for sure, but I would guess that inflates DLR more given the parks are right across each other and the average person would find it easier to park hop there than at WDW
Florida Man
Active Member
Out of all the projects announced, I hope this one is ultimately canceled 
and that the imagineers find a creative way to navigate around RoA to allow access to the land behind big thunder for expansion.
Some sort of transportation to the land—skyway, moving sidewalk, tunnel, bridge. This is Disney and they can figure it out. They lifted a giant golf ball into the air for crying out loud.
and that the imagineers find a creative way to navigate around RoA to allow access to the land behind big thunder for expansion.Some sort of transportation to the land—skyway, moving sidewalk, tunnel, bridge. This is Disney and they can figure it out. They lifted a giant golf ball into the air for crying out loud.
Mr. Sullivan
Well-Known Member
It won’t be. They’ve already started.Out of all the projects announced, I hope this one is ultimately canceled
Some sort of transportation to the land—skyway, moving sidewalk, tunnel, bridge. This is Disney and they can figure it out. They lifted a giant golf ball into the air for crying out loud.
Furthermore, they shouldn’t. The purists will never admit to it, but even they deep down know that Magic Kingdom is in dire need of something exactly like this.
Florida Man
Active Member
Can you elaborate on what you mean by they’ve already started?
Mr. Sullivan
Well-Known Member
They got there by breaking the rules. By not allowing there to ever be a status quo, never allowing something to be infinite. The Disney parks got where they are precisely because they didn’t stick to rules, not by creating rules.
These parks are designed to change. Nothing is supposed to last forever. A long time, sure, but real creatives don’t design something that’s going to sit there forever and ever to the point it’s lost its luster and its relevance. They will get the desire to come in and create something new to take it’s place because time always moves forward and the needs of the time you land in will be different than the one you left.
Letting something just sit simply because it’s been there for a long time is no way to run a theme park. That’s the quickest way to kill a park.
flynnibus
Premium Member
You seem to confuse 'rules' with 'principals'
They didn't break rules when they created Disneyland they broke EXPECTATIONS by going in directions others had not considered worthy... and applied PRINCIPALS from other craft to the amusement park in ways that hadn't been done prior.
They gained by applying stagecraft and principals while breaking away from prior beliefs.
This is not the same as saying 'those things don't matter' -- because when those 'things' are principals that drive emotion and guest engagement... those are things that are done for PURPOSE not simply due to convention or priorities 'aka rules' that artificially constrain people. Principals are more absolute - not always used, but that doesn't make them easily violated.... like ignoring 'status quo' .. which is more what the Imagineers did. They didn't break rules - they ignored status quo
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I would be pretty upset if they cancelled this and so would a lot of other people. There has to be a reason why they want this specific area and not other expansion pads.Out of all the projects announced, I hope this one is ultimately canceled
Some sort of transportation to the land—skyway, moving sidewalk, tunnel, bridge. This is Disney and they can figure it out. They lifted a giant golf ball into the air for crying out loud.
I think there is more to this. I think there is potential that cars and Villains are just the beginning of an expansion for MK. Anyway, it’s the only rationale I can think of. There are also murmurs of more to come. Even Josh ended D23 stating this. Anyway just a thought.
danlb_2000
Premium Member
Quietmouse
Well-Known Member
I’m in the same boat.
Sad to see river of America go, but likewise I think Disney theming is as strong as it has ever been. I’m a huge fan of their rock work (radiator springs is gorgeous) and I think they know they have big shoes to fill and are fully capable of making an extremely beautiful extension of frontier land with the rock work, waterfalls and streams of cars land.
I’m extremely curious how this will turn out, and I do believe the upside weights more than the downside.
Ayla
Well-Known Member
This isn't Radiator Springs.
DisneyHead123
Well-Known Member
I don’t think it’s as deep as you’re imagining it is. Reportedly (from insiders) the area was going to Coco, until the last minute when costs looked too high so they went with Cars instead.
I think the Disney Parks are great and am not doom and gloom on them in general. But to my mind, all signs point to this being them shoving some semi random IP into the space for the sake of IP and merch sales. It’s one thing when they do that with something like Toy Story Land, but replacing the original MK with random IP is totally different, to my mind.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
What rules of storytelling did they break?
Mr. Sullivan
Well-Known Member
Not storytelling (though they have done that a few times), theme park design. They've broken every rule of that multiple times over.
All that is possible but it’s also anecdotal. With that said, do I think Cars offers potentially more “store” sales? Possibly, but I’m not sure what that has to do with the placement of the Cars ride on TSI.
Not saying billion dollar organizations don’t make mistakes. Heck, I think they make more mistakes than they hit it out of the park, but I would have a hard time believing that TSI was picked using a dart and a dart board. Refer back to my original statement, not saying it’s fact but there is smoke with this expansion just being the beginning.
Mr. Sullivan
Well-Known Member
Anyway, sorry for the big wall of text here but I just kinda wanna share my overall intention with most of what I've said about this project because I don't want to be seen as the argumentative one on here all the time and I know there's been times I have been just that lol
Disney fans are a nostalgic group of people. More so than many fan bases are. And as such, I think they have a harder time dealing with and confronting change than a lot of other fanbases do. And that makes sense! The Disney parks are physical, tangible places that we have visited and interacted with. It's natural to have formed such a close connection to things having been present to interact with them.
But the damaging thing this nostalgia does to us is that it exists in spite of the one constant the Disney parks have always offered: it changes constantly.
No generation of Disney fan has ever gotten to keep their Disney. Every single generation of fan has had to watch the parks change. The people who were kids in the 1950s and 1960s fell in love with one version of Disneyland and then when they took their kids in the 80s, they had to walk around and see how much it had changed and think "wow this isn't my Disney anymore." The people who were kids in the 70s and walked around Magic Kingdom came back with their kids in the 90s, saw how much it changed, and thought "wow this isn't my Disney anymore." My generation walked around the parks as kids in the 2000s and I'll one day be going with my kids and younger family and looking around thinking "wow this isn't my Disney anymore."
Every generation has gone through this. But I think a lot of Disney fans that are present on these forums and on social media are having to experience this now for the first time. Sure, they've lost some attractions along the way, but these parks are now actively going through MASSIVE changes.
I don't think for most though they'll try to argue otherwise that their core issue here is that Cars doesn't belong in Frontierland or that RoA is about beauty and calm and placemaking and shouldn't leave, it's that this is a change they're maybe just not ready for yet. It hurts to lose because it makes it impossible to ignore that the Disney they grew up with and have spent most of their life with so far is fading away now.
But, to me anyway, that's what's so special about these parks. Every generation gets a different Disney. For many, 2000s Disney was a far, far, far cry from the one they had always known and they didn't really like it. But I loved and adored it because it was my Disney, and I'll mourn it when big pieces of it begin to disappear. Yes, RoA has spanned multiple generations now, but I again reiterate that at its core, this isn't about the river, it's about knowing you're gonna be saying goodbye to a lot of you've cherished for a long time.
And that's hard. It's super hard. But it can be beautiful if you choose to look at it that way.
Someone else now is getting the chance to discover a different Disney and fall in love with it. It's going to make them very, very happy. Maybe it's losing magic for you, but they're gonna come find it and to them it's going to be the most magical place in the world. They'll one day lose their Disney too, and they'll lash out too. It's a cycle that will never end.
But honestly, I think you can learn to love what Disney's turning into if you let yourself let go of what you'd prefer it to stay. There's something magical still to be found in coming along with the new generation and getting to see Disney through their eyes, allowing them to find their magic. Maybe it isn't your magic, but you can still find enjoyment in seeing a new generation get their dream parks if you allow yourself.
It's never going to feel good if you sit and cross your arms and scream constantly at this new generation that their Disney sucks. It'll only keep you sour, and it'll in the process sour their experience too.
This is a massive change. One of the biggest changes that these parks has undergone in years. It's a lot to take in, and I'm sure once it's really underway, it'll be overwhelming. But I do genuinely implore those of you who've reacted to this so passionately to think about this, and think about how things just can't stay the same forever and how bad it would be if they did. Change has to happen. It just has to. That's what these places are about. Marching forward, finding new horizons, and giving this new generation something of their own.
Disney isn't going to look like it does now forever. It won't look like what form it takes when this 10 year plan is done forever either. When we're all long gone, Disney will once more look different, probably even unrecognizable compared to today. You can choose to find that scary or you can choose to be excited about it. Not everything is going to be a winner for every person, but I think we can all agree that at the end of the day we want the people who're just discovering Disney to come in and find something that they love. That's what is happening here.
Yes, it's cynical business. But the truth is, it always has been. It was behind closed doors and not so naked before, but this has always been a business. Walt talked a lot about creativity and imagination and yes it was there, but he was also running a business. Roy was running a business. Michael Eisner talked the same talk, but he too was running a business. We just didn't see it that way, because we had our Disney whatever that Disney was. Now that some of you don't or are in the process of losing it, it all looks bleak and dark and evil.
Be upset. Let it out. But when the time comes, really try to look at it through the lens of this is going to be someone else's special place, creating a whole new generation of devotee. Maybe that's not for you, but you can let it be for them and not sit there arms folded being a grump to rain on their parade. I'm sure you hated seeing that when it was aimed at your special place.
Sorry for the long winded wall of text, I just think this project in particular is the perfect encapsulation of the ever constant cycle of happiness and sadness that Disney fans put themselves through. It's always been there, and always will be. It's just that a lot of people are having to experience a massive charge to the Next Disney that isn't being done slowly but rather all at once for the first time and they just don't know how to handle it which i can get.
I guess all I gotta say is just...really try to find the magic that's out there in this. Maybe it isn't in the attraction itself for you, maybe its in getting to see the joy it'll bring to others. You can find a lot of joy in someone else's joy if you allow yourself too. The negative feelings you feel are there because you allow them to be and you lean into them. You can be more optimistic and welcoming of the future if only you'd allow yourself to just accept that things change, and nobody gets to keep the Disney they fell in love with forever.
It's a loss we one day will ALL have to experience. But such is the nature of the parks that are always meant to move forward, never stopping.
Disney fans are a nostalgic group of people. More so than many fan bases are. And as such, I think they have a harder time dealing with and confronting change than a lot of other fanbases do. And that makes sense! The Disney parks are physical, tangible places that we have visited and interacted with. It's natural to have formed such a close connection to things having been present to interact with them.
But the damaging thing this nostalgia does to us is that it exists in spite of the one constant the Disney parks have always offered: it changes constantly.
No generation of Disney fan has ever gotten to keep their Disney. Every single generation of fan has had to watch the parks change. The people who were kids in the 1950s and 1960s fell in love with one version of Disneyland and then when they took their kids in the 80s, they had to walk around and see how much it had changed and think "wow this isn't my Disney anymore." The people who were kids in the 70s and walked around Magic Kingdom came back with their kids in the 90s, saw how much it changed, and thought "wow this isn't my Disney anymore." My generation walked around the parks as kids in the 2000s and I'll one day be going with my kids and younger family and looking around thinking "wow this isn't my Disney anymore."
Every generation has gone through this. But I think a lot of Disney fans that are present on these forums and on social media are having to experience this now for the first time. Sure, they've lost some attractions along the way, but these parks are now actively going through MASSIVE changes.
I don't think for most though they'll try to argue otherwise that their core issue here is that Cars doesn't belong in Frontierland or that RoA is about beauty and calm and placemaking and shouldn't leave, it's that this is a change they're maybe just not ready for yet. It hurts to lose because it makes it impossible to ignore that the Disney they grew up with and have spent most of their life with so far is fading away now.
But, to me anyway, that's what's so special about these parks. Every generation gets a different Disney. For many, 2000s Disney was a far, far, far cry from the one they had always known and they didn't really like it. But I loved and adored it because it was my Disney, and I'll mourn it when big pieces of it begin to disappear. Yes, RoA has spanned multiple generations now, but I again reiterate that at its core, this isn't about the river, it's about knowing you're gonna be saying goodbye to a lot of you've cherished for a long time.
And that's hard. It's super hard. But it can be beautiful if you choose to look at it that way.
Someone else now is getting the chance to discover a different Disney and fall in love with it. It's going to make them very, very happy. Maybe it's losing magic for you, but they're gonna come find it and to them it's going to be the most magical place in the world. They'll one day lose their Disney too, and they'll lash out too. It's a cycle that will never end.
But honestly, I think you can learn to love what Disney's turning into if you let yourself let go of what you'd prefer it to stay. There's something magical still to be found in coming along with the new generation and getting to see Disney through their eyes, allowing them to find their magic. Maybe it isn't your magic, but you can still find enjoyment in seeing a new generation get their dream parks if you allow yourself.
It's never going to feel good if you sit and cross your arms and scream constantly at this new generation that their Disney sucks. It'll only keep you sour, and it'll in the process sour their experience too.
This is a massive change. One of the biggest changes that these parks has undergone in years. It's a lot to take in, and I'm sure once it's really underway, it'll be overwhelming. But I do genuinely implore those of you who've reacted to this so passionately to think about this, and think about how things just can't stay the same forever and how bad it would be if they did. Change has to happen. It just has to. That's what these places are about. Marching forward, finding new horizons, and giving this new generation something of their own.
Disney isn't going to look like it does now forever. It won't look like what form it takes when this 10 year plan is done forever either. When we're all long gone, Disney will once more look different, probably even unrecognizable compared to today. You can choose to find that scary or you can choose to be excited about it. Not everything is going to be a winner for every person, but I think we can all agree that at the end of the day we want the people who're just discovering Disney to come in and find something that they love. That's what is happening here.
Yes, it's cynical business. But the truth is, it always has been. It was behind closed doors and not so naked before, but this has always been a business. Walt talked a lot about creativity and imagination and yes it was there, but he was also running a business. Roy was running a business. Michael Eisner talked the same talk, but he too was running a business. We just didn't see it that way, because we had our Disney whatever that Disney was. Now that some of you don't or are in the process of losing it, it all looks bleak and dark and evil.
Be upset. Let it out. But when the time comes, really try to look at it through the lens of this is going to be someone else's special place, creating a whole new generation of devotee. Maybe that's not for you, but you can let it be for them and not sit there arms folded being a grump to rain on their parade. I'm sure you hated seeing that when it was aimed at your special place.
Sorry for the long winded wall of text, I just think this project in particular is the perfect encapsulation of the ever constant cycle of happiness and sadness that Disney fans put themselves through. It's always been there, and always will be. It's just that a lot of people are having to experience a massive charge to the Next Disney that isn't being done slowly but rather all at once for the first time and they just don't know how to handle it which i can get.
I guess all I gotta say is just...really try to find the magic that's out there in this. Maybe it isn't in the attraction itself for you, maybe its in getting to see the joy it'll bring to others. You can find a lot of joy in someone else's joy if you allow yourself too. The negative feelings you feel are there because you allow them to be and you lean into them. You can be more optimistic and welcoming of the future if only you'd allow yourself to just accept that things change, and nobody gets to keep the Disney they fell in love with forever.
It's a loss we one day will ALL have to experience. But such is the nature of the parks that are always meant to move forward, never stopping.
LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
I’m not a purist, and I don’t agree at all.
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
No, “deep down” I do not know or think that.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Storytelling is the root issue and the defining quality of the theme park experience.
It’s not arguing that is the issue. It’s the 101-level analysis and subsequent misdiagnosis.
Mr. Sullivan
Well-Known Member
Which is why I wanted to say something a little more thoughtful rather than commenting out of pure annoyance like I have been in regards to this, especially when I'm ultimately wanting to push back against that very same thing.
You're right, maybe deep down a lot of people don't think this way. And I'll take that statement back because, again, it was said because I was annoyed which is no way to have a conversation.
That big wall of text is really, truly where I'm at. I've been accused of lots of things for feeling this way about a lot of things regarding Disney. People love to call me a shill. No I don't agree with everything Disney does. A lot of it I don't agree with really. I'm fine with RoA going, but I don't agree Cars is what should replace it.
But I also don't want to spend all of my time poopooing what makes someone else happy because that's just not what these parks are about, and it isn't enjoyable for anyone.
The thoughts I expressed in all that are not things I came up with all on my own. It's thoughts that I've seen shared by many different people over the years, but I honestly didn't fully get what they meant until very recently. Honestly kinda started with Splash, but really started to make sense with this project in particular.
I'm not trying to diagnose anyone. It's not a diagnosis to say that there's a real good chance the frustration someone's throwing at one thing isn't about said thing but about a much bigger thing. That's not a diagnosis, that's just human nature. And I empathize with it. It sucks bad to see something you've loved all your life start to change into something that's not super recognizable anymore.
But the point is, I hope that maybe eventually more people can stop seeing that as a bad thing and they can let their anger at the whole situation go. Disney fans get so, so very angry with change in any form, and nostalgia is almost always the answer. Nostalgia's a powerful thing that makes people act very emotionally and we see it happening here all the time.
I don't want to diagnose, just wanted to offer a thought/perspective to some who've been very angry about all this to stop and consider in the hope that maybe just maybe it's helpful to them and helps them to look at this from a more positive perspective even if it's not something they're ever truly satisfied for comfortable with.
It's a long, long road ahead on this project. It's not even full steam ahead yet. I don't think any of us want to sit around stew in the negative, emotional reactions to it for however many years this takes to finish, so I hope people can start considering things beyond their personal feelings as we move along.
That's all.
I'm sorry for making so many comments and quotes that were purely emotional from me because that's not helpful to the conversation and just kicks up more fuss.