News Cars-Themed Attractions at Magic Kingdom

Dizknee_Phreek

Well-Known Member
The photos are wonderful but they also kinda supplement what Stripes means. These views have to be actively sought out by park guests, and usually you’ll be alone (see the second picture) in these views.
I took those photos in Dec 2022, which was the last time I visited MK. Of course I had no idea then that it would likely be the last time I see RoA. Otherwise I would have taken a lot more than those. But I tend to take pics from what I consider interesting perspectives, and often to share on my travel agent business account. So I try to take pics with as few people as possible in them. Just a personal preference. I have pictures from DL's river that have little to no people too. Also, I didn't have to seek very hard to find those spots in MK. We were passing through an area, I saw what I thought would make an interesting pic, and I snapped it. I wasn't actively seeking out the river to take pics of it... because it's right there, easy to see from multiple spots.
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
Car culture is a very superficial representation of American ideals (and Cars an even more remote representation of that culture). Liberty Square and Frontierland, at least as originally designed, touch on some of the founding ideas, stories, and mythology of America.

So yes, I do object to the Magic Kingdom becoming less American.
The term used by the poster I was responding to was “Americana”, which to me evokes things like the Sci-Fi Diner rather than the Hall of Presidents. What you’re referring to isn’t so much a loss of Americanness as it is the loss (or at least reduction) of a particular mode of celebratory patriotism. I agree with you that such a process is underway, even if I don’t share your dismay at the shift. Nor do I think that the driving force behind it is self-loathing: one doesn’t have to cite ideological reasons to explain why Disney is filling in the Rivers of America (a decision I personally deplore) or planning to turn the Hall of Presidents into something more lighthearted. These are ultimately business decisions, not the outcome of some anti-American purge.
 

SirLink

Well-Known Member
There was a Frontierland, complete with new attractions.

The three lands were specifically not financed based on ownership. Disney was forced to make up for not properly building out the park.

So your debating facts. The HKDL was announced that it would be Main Street(grant you originally it was supposed to be 1960s theme) and 3 lands. There was never an indication of a Frontierland was in development. The closet that something like a Frontierland was Grizzly Gulch and as stated the way the HKDL and SDL fund the expansions are based on % of ownership.
 
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Two Ears

Member
So.


Sorry…but…what?

D23 announcements:

Animal kingdom :

Indy replacing dinosaur - I’m guessing same theme with the ride system.

Wooden Carousel - definitely not a thrill ride

Encanto - from what I understand dark ride/boat ride? Not sure what the exact details are, but definitely not a thrill ride.

Zootopia replacing bugs life …

Magic Kingdom - Sounds like a trackless test track from the rumors. Will probably go fast but height restriction probably won’t be any different than cars land in DCA , which is 40 inches - so average height for 4/5 year old ?

Second ride is supposed to be a ride geared more towards kids probably no height restrictions.

Villains Land -????

Maybe an e ticket coaster? Maybe an eticket coaster plus a villains dark ride?

I think things are really murky as far as what’s actually going to be built in villains land at the moment.

So that leaves DHS.

Okay, monster inc land is featuring a coaster. I’m going to throw a wild guess, due to the nature of its theme (more kids oriented) that it’s height restriction will probably 40 inch max - again average height for a 4-5 year old.


All in all, officially 1 coaster was announced and 5 non coasters attractions were announced. But again, even with monster inc. , 40 inch requirement is not I would necessarily call “thrill”.
There simply is not enough thrill rides in this list.
 

bwr827

Well-Known Member
All these new announcements from D23 all feel reactive to Epic Universe. It's like they looked at Epic Universe and see what they are doing, and copied it with the Disney version. They are adding more thrills then they did before, and adding standalone IP lands

I really feel they have lost sight of what made them different. It's so odd for them to be the follower rather than the leader.
Which are the standalone IP lands? Monstropolis, and…? Not Frontierland Cars, not Tropical Americas, not Villains.

Indiana Jones and Encanto sound like dark rides to me. Villains will probably have one coaster and one dark ride.
 

bwr827

Well-Known Member
Car culture is a very superficial representation of American ideals (and Cars an even more remote representation of that culture). Liberty Square and Frontierland, at least as originally designed, touch on some of the founding ideas, stories, and mythology of America.

So yes, I do object to the Magic Kingdom becoming less American.
Nothing superficial about car culture as a representation of America. Cars are woven into America’s growth, development and way of living going back more than a century.
 

CraftyFox

Well-Known Member
I always love the use of water in themed environments whether that be in fountains, ponds, or the RoA. I feel like they add this subtle kinetic energy and liveliness. On the one hand, I think the new Cars attractions might feature moving elements that help retain that sense of kinetic energy in Frontierland. But on the other hand I would really prefer it if the grinning cars are not visible from 19th century Frontierland and late 18th century Liberty Square. But then if they are fully hidden away that kinetic energy goes away again.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
So your debating facts. The HKDL was announced that it would be Main Street(grant you originally it was supposed to be 1960s theme) and 3 lands. There was never an indication of a Frontierland was in development. The closet that something like a Frontierland was Grizzly Gulch and as stated the way the HKDL and SDL fund the expansions are based on % of ownership.
The original announcement in 1999 included Frontierland and ToonTown.

“From Adventureland guests may want to travel on to the wild American frontier. In Frontierland, they will have the opportunity to experience the American Old West of the 1880s. Here guests might climb through a Wild West fort, take a frightfully fun trip through a haunted mansion and shoot the rapids on a daring river raft.”

“Frontierland Concept: Frontierland is a walk right into the American Old West of the 1880s. Here park guests explore a frontier outpost at Fort Comstock. They might also take a frightfully funny trip through a haunted mansion, shoot the rapids on a river raft ride, or experience for themselves just how tough it is to be a bug in a one-of-a-kind show.”

 

psherman42

Well-Known Member
Of the approximately 20 million guests that visit Magic Kingdom every year, what percentage use the boardwalk? Again, my point is that the river is not well integrated into the park. The only path with a decent view of the river is one that cannot accommodate very much traffic because it’s not very wide, hence why you’ve had to navigate crowds.

At both Disneyland and Magic Kingdom, I was comparing the views from their respective main walkways inside the lands. I genuinely think that‘s a fair comparison when it comes to whether the Rivers of America at each park does a good job of establishing an atmosphere inside their respective lands. Just because there’s a short, or not very wide walkway, inside the land that has a decent view of the river doesn‘t mean the river does a good job of establishing an atmosphere. For most places in Liberty Square or Frontierland, the river feels distant and disconnected from the land, and in my opinion, a replacement could do a much better job of establishing an atmosphere in each land.
The percentage of guests that use the walkway is irrelevant honestly. I’ve seen it said here that only 10% of guests experience space mountain. Does that mean it should also be replaced? What ago it the walkway at Epcot that goes from Canada towards imagination? Should that be removed as well if a percentage threshold isn’t met? What about the boardwalk connecting Pandora to Africa at DAK?

Again, I am not trying to argue which river is better. It still doesn’t mean that WDW’s should be gutted. If it’s really an issue of integrating the river, then they could do that, redesign the walls or the boardwalk rather than just take it out entirely. And I do not agree that an area that looks like it’ll be surrounded by trees and a mountain will establish a better atmosphere. If anything it’ll make it more isolating since your view will be completely blocked.
 

bwr827

Well-Known Member
The percentage of guests that use the walkway is irrelevant honestly. I’ve seen it said here that only 10% of guests experience space mountain. Does that mean it should also be replaced? What ago it the walkway at Epcot that goes from Canada towards imagination? Should that be removed as well if a percentage threshold isn’t met? What about the boardwalk connecting Pandora to Africa at DAK?

Again, I am not trying to argue which river is better. It still doesn’t mean that WDW’s should be gutted. If it’s really an issue of integrating the river, then they could do that, redesign the walls or the boardwalk rather than just take it out entirely. And I do not agree that an area that looks like it’ll be surrounded by trees and a mountain will establish a better atmosphere. If anything it’ll make it more isolating since your view will be completely blocked.
Those pictures did help me understand better why the MK river doesn’t stand out in my memory. The DL pics make the river so much more prominent.

When are we going to split this thread into forward-looking discussion and backward-looking commentary?
 

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
I think one relevant point here is that most people would be happy with a balanced solution that perhaps saw TSI disappear but allowed for at least the front part of the ROA to remain rather than it all becoming Carsland 2.0 so as to preserve the theming and ambiance of the area.

The second point I would make is that providing those spaces to slow down does have value in and of itself. Even just stopping and looking at the 'river' for a moment while waiting for your family to go to the bathroom or buy a turkey leg likely improves a person's mood in the midst of a rushed and hot day at MK. One of the things that supposedly distinguishes Imagineering from other theme park designers is that they think about those sorts of things.

This is how retail at parks like Disneyland and The Magic Kingdom was designed as well.

A mix of high volume, one-stop-shopping stores and small, unique shops that acted like exhibits to occupy time. That some didn't turn a profit wasn't important, because the park was viewed as a whole with the understanding that attractions, retail and restaurants don't compete with each other, but work together to sell the experience.

That changed in the 90s when any store that wasn't making x margins was thrown out.

Now entire swaths of park acreage are viewed this way. Not pulling your weight on a spreadsheet? Time to go. Never mind the operational need to not have every ride be over indexed, or the aesthetic value a setting may provide.
 

999th Happy Haunt

Well-Known Member
Good lord.

Maybe just maybe the frontier is just outdated. Unless they’re well over 50 most people didn’t grow up with fond memories of the frontier or media glamorizing it. The frontier means nothing to the current generations bringing their kids to Disney parks. Nothing.

The closest I got to the frontier is knowing how to avoid dysentery playing Oregon Trail! And I’m 40+ with 2 elementary aged kids, aka prime Disney park demographic.

Maybe fans of Yellowstone can fill that riverboat going forward, but they sure aren’t the demographic to do anything on that island.
Lol as if kids are familiar with Main Street and 30s Hollywood or care about the history of agriculture and communication
 

Cliff

Well-Known Member
I'd love to see this poll go up for everybody:

Would you like to see "Frontier Cars":

A.) Built on top of The Rivers of America.
B.) Built on a currently empty portion of land.

I'd be curious to see the results of that.

It's my guess that this destruction of the Rivers of America idea is originating from a small group of Burbank and Glendale executives. I would guess again that most people affiliated with Imagineering (past and present) were privately horrified when they heard this idea was going to happen. I also suspect that a very large number of internal cast members were also horrified too.

I'd LOVE for Tony Baxter, Bob Gur and Joe Rhode to speak out publicly about this and be COMPLETELY HONEST about what they think about this mess. But,..we all know that they can't. "If" they go against Burbank, they will get blacklisted and canceled real fast.
 
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Tha Realest

Well-Known Member
This is how retail at parks like Disneyland and The Magic Kingdom was designed as well.

A mix of high volume, one-stop-shopping stores and small, unique shops that acted like exhibits to occupy time. That some didn't turn a profit wasn't important, because the park was viewed as a whole with the understanding that attractions, retail and restaurants don't compete with each other, but work together to sell the experience.

That changed in the 90s when any store that wasn't making x margins was thrown out.

Now entire swaths of park acreage are viewed this way. Not pulling your weight on a spreadsheet? Time to go. Never mind the operational need to not have every ride be over indexed, or the aesthetic value a setting may provide.
Everyone complains about how “IP” has ruined the parks when really it was the hostile takeover by the Consumer Products folks.
 

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