News Cars-Themed Attractions at Magic Kingdom

[Sir_Cliff]

That announcement really bothered me - Walts granddaughter is against it. It was wrong of Josh to say “the family approves” when that is not true.

People can argue what Walt wanted for the parks but we know he wanted a steam train and a steamboat cause he owned them himself!

Indeed. To me, that seems like a really bizarre misreading of what the fans want. @BrianLo mentioned that the reaction in the room was very subdued/uncomfortable around that announcement, so if that crowd wasn't into it then you have to ask who it is for.

 

[Jrb1979]

All these new announcements from D23 all feel reactive to Epic Universe. It's like they looked at Epic Universe and see what they are doing, and copied it with the Disney version. They are adding more thrills then they did before, and adding standalone IP lands

I really feel they have lost sight of what made them different. It's so odd for them to be the follower rather than the leader.

 

[Tha Realest]

That announcement really bothered me - Walts granddaughter is against it. It was wrong of Josh to say “the family approves” when that is not true.

People can argue what Walt wanted for the parks but we know he wanted a steam train and a steamboat cause he owned them himself!

It is funny to see it’s being spearheaded by Tom Fitzgerald, who has been attesting to authentic the experience will be to Walt’s life and actual words/speeches, since he’s viewed as one of the people partially responsible for conjuring up the quote attributed to Walt: “If you can dream it, you can do it.”

 

[DarkMetroid567]

All these new announcements from D23 all feel reactive to Epic Universe. It's like they looked at Epic Universe and see what they are doing, and copied it with the Disney version. They are adding more thrills then they did before, and adding standalone IP lands

What do you think Disney copied from Epic, besides the Dark Universe-Villains parallel?

 

[Jrb1979]

What do you think Disney copied from Epic, besides the Dark Universe-Villains parallel?

The additions of thrills being a focus for one. Of all the new additions coming they had more thrills coming then they used to.

Mini lands is another, I know it's not just an Epic Universe thing but they copied that from Universal.

 

[SCOTLORR]

What do you think Disney copied from Epic, besides the Dark Universe-Villains parallel?

This is just my opinion, but it feels like Cars is an answer to Mario Kart and Monsters Inc is an answer to How to train your dragon. Definitely open to interpretation though. But like you mentioned, there’s no denying the Dark Universe-Villains parallel.

 

[Stripes]

That first sentence is completely untrue. People use that boardwalk to get to Thunder Mountain/Tiana’s because it’s a bit of a shortcut. Any time I’ve been on it, there’s been crowds to navigate. I’m not trying ti argue which river is better, just point out that you can’t just post pictures from the main walkway in Frontierland to claim WDW makes the river feel distant and ignore the boardwalk that exists.

Of the approximately 20 million guests that visit Magic Kingdom every year, what percentage use the boardwalk? Again, my point is that the river is not well integrated into the park. The only path with a decent view of the river is one that cannot accommodate very much traffic because it’s not very wide, hence why you’ve had to navigate crowds.

At both Disneyland and Magic Kingdom, I was comparing the views from their respective main walkways inside the lands. I genuinely think that‘s a fair comparison when it comes to whether the Rivers of America at each park does a good job of establishing an atmosphere inside their respective lands. Just because there’s a short, or not very wide walkway, inside the land that has a decent view of the river doesn‘t mean the river does a good job of establishing an atmosphere. For most places in Liberty Square or Frontierland, the river feels distant and disconnected from the land, and in my opinion, a replacement could do a much better job of establishing an atmosphere in each land.

 

[Bleed0range]

All these new announcements from D23 all feel reactive to Epic Universe. It's like they looked at Epic Universe and see what they are doing, and copied it with the Disney version. They are adding more thrills then they did before, and adding standalone IP lands

I really feel they have lost sight of what made them different. It's so odd for them to be the follower rather than the leader.

Disney have been top dog for so long they’ve become risk adverse whereas Universal is willing to take risks to become top dog.

It’s only a good thing because without Universal they’d probably be doing a lot less and merely mostly maintaining what they’ve got rather than expanding on it much.

 

[Chef idea Mickey`=]

All these new announcements from D23 all feel reactive to Epic Universe. It's like they looked at Epic Universe and see what they are doing, and copied it with the Disney version. They are adding more thrills then they did before, and adding standalone IP lands

I really feel they have lost sight of what made them different. It's so odd for them to be the follower rather than the leader.

Then so it's been odd right (before) Universal Studios Florida debuted!

 

[bwr827]

… If Cars is now considered worthy as the main theme of a land at the Magic Kingdom, that is clarifying in terms of what the Magic Kingdom now is.

Cars isn’t the theme, it’s still frontier.

 

[V_L_Raptor]

Comments like Zanetti's that hype the sort of things that come up in technical reports everyday as the explanation when it's much simpler - it's not that Disney is deliberately malicious, it's that they do not care.

I think it's the history of not caring that's creating the problem, moreso than a current condition.

I'm not a civil engineer of any stripe, but locally in Tampa I've been involved in some civic activism concerning stormwater controls in some of our neighborhoods. The ponds are inadequate and lack surrounding vegetation for heat control, and the concern is that with climate change, the flooding that crops up all too frequently will continue to worsen.

As far as this relates to Disney... how often have we seen the walkways in Frontierland flood during downpours? How often do CM's have to head out with squeegees to push the water out to drain, because what was already built wasn't up to it? I was chatting about this with a fellow Disney fan yesterday, and that was the first reply he had, without even looking at this thread. If all of this is a product of Disney not keeping up their stormwater management in that area, some very wet chickens may be coming home to roost.

What's worse, the drainage demands on the area may be bound to increase once they pave and build the Villains area. If it's actually going north/northeast of this area, that's going to be a lot more water pouring in than already does. If Disney has neglected upgrading this infrastructure in keeping with possible future demand -- where have we heard that before, damn it all? -- then this may be them trying to fob off their continual negligence as a marvelous new opportunity. (Pretty sure they've done that before, too.)

Not happy to lose ROA or TSI at all, definitely. Again, I'm not an engineer at all. I do, however, suspect that what we've been enjoying all this time has been poorly stewarded by Disney in ways we may not have fully appreciated until now, pretty much like everything else Disney has these days. The wages of negligence are bulldozers and fan fury.

 

[Dizknee_Phreek]

Of the approximately 20 million guests that visit Magic Kingdom every year, what percentage use the boardwalk? Again, my point is that the river is not well integrated into the park. The only path with a decent view of the river is one that cannot accommodate very much traffic because it’s not very wide, hence why you’ve had to navigate crowds.

Do you really think 20 million people use every single other walkway in WDW? This is a very strange argument to me. The boardwalk in question wasn't even original to the park. It was added in the mid 90s to help with guest flow. It wasn't meant to be a main walkway. It's also odd to me that you think MK's RoA isn't well integrated into the park because the only way to walk beside it is on a light traffic path? It's not like it's totally inaccessible. There are lots of beautiful views of the river from lots of different areas in FL, LS and TSI. But also keep in mind, DL doesn't have the threat of potential alligators in their river. But if your definition of "well integrated" is that you can walk right along the water's edge, MK's river is far better integrated than AK's.

 

[Stripes]

Do you really think 20 million people use every single other walkway in WDW? This is a very strange argument to me. The boardwalk in question wasn't even original to the park. It was added in the mid 90s to help with guest flow. It wasn't meant to be a main walkway. It's also odd to me that you think MK's RoA isn't well integrated into the park because the only way to walk beside it is on a light traffic path? It's not like it's totally inaccessible. There are lots of beautiful views of the river from lots of different areas in FL, LS and TSI. But also keep in mind, DL doesn't have the threat of potential alligators in their river. But if your definition of "well integrated" is that you can walk right along the water's edge, MK's river is far better integrated than AK's.

To me, well-integrated is whether it does a good job of establishing an atmosphere within its respective lands. Considering you can hardly see the river from most places in Frontierland and Liberty Square, and where you can see it, there is often an obstacle in the way making the river feel disconnected, the river is not well-integrated into the lands, IMO. I think DL’s RoA does a much better job of establishing an atmosphere and I think replacing RoA in MK with theming that you can actually see from most places within Frontierland and Liberty Square would similarly do a better job of establishing an atmosphere.

 

[donaldtoo]

Nothin’ says late frontier 1800’s like ATVs…

 

[haveyoumetmark]

You all wear me out so much but you will get over it I guarantee you, see you in 2030

 

[Sir_Cliff]

Nothin’ says late frontier 1800’s like ATVs…

But, you see, they have updated the definition to include not just ATVs, but ATVs that are alive, with big eyes and smiles and that talk. Also included in the definition of frontier now are talking race cars and tow trucks, as well as mountains that formed in the shape of car parts. So, you see, the Frontierland you knew and loved isn't really going away!

 

[bwr827]

The last time someone rode the boat or visited TSI is irrelevant. They were not built as high capacity attractions. That wasn’t their primary purpose. Especially TSI where you have to board a raft to get there. You don’t use that much acreage for some boats and an island with a (beautifully themed) child’s playground that can only be accessed by raft to be people eaters. You build it for the place making and atmosphere. People found their way onto a nerdy Disney fan site like this but don’t really understand that the ROAs value is in the atmosphere and ambiance it adds to that side of the park? I find that hard to believe.

I could be mistaken, but didn’t you mention in another thread that you’ve never visited Magic Kingdom?

 

[celluloid]

Cars isn’t the theme, it’s still frontier.

A frontier that includes no humans.

 

[easyrowrdw]

I also wonder whether this will just be one of many breaking points that wasn't or if it will mean something more significant due to the symbolism of putting a Cars land so front and centre such that it dominates two of the original lands in the park.

Personally, I have been surprised at how much this announcement has flicked a switch in me toward being done with them. I'm not willing to say it will be a terrible mistake and they'll regret it, because I don't really know if there are masses out there clamouring for the Magic Kingdom to be re-made into IP-lands. I was already pretty over WDW due to the costs and over-complicated planning processes, though, so this feels like a final push toward finding it hard to imagine I would ever be able to justify the time and money it would take to visit the place again. Maybe others want interchangeable parks that allow them to step into different IPs, but that's not what got me interested in Disney parks.

That said, I would visit Disneyland again if I happened to be in LA and Disneyland Paris is a pleasant 2-3 hour train ride away from where I live, so if the person I usually catch up with there while she's visiting family in Paris suggests it, I am sure I will go. I can't for the life of me imagine a circumstance where I would spend precious vacation time and bags of money to fly to Orlando and enter into the worlds of Cars, Tomorrow, and Fantasy, or however it ends up in coming years. I'm honestly curious if I will switch back to being interested in going again.

We’ve had similar conversations at our house. In particular, they’ve removed so many of the things that made the trip magical (Magic Express, baggage check-in, delivery to your room, free FP) all while increasing prices like crazy. It’s just been kinda chipping away I guess.

I didn’t enjoy DL as much as WDW but it seems like it might be more likely to remain the kind of park I think Disney should be. Doubt I’ll ever make it to an overseas park but I’ve heard good things. I keep hoping they’ll come to their senses but it sounds like that isn’t going to happen.

 

[Dizknee_Phreek]

To me, well-integrated is whether it does a good job of establishing an atmosphere within its respective lands. Considering you can hardly see the river from most places in Frontierland and Liberty Square, and where you can see it, there is often an obstacle in the way making the river feel disconnected, the river is not well-integrated into the lands, IMO. I think DL’s RoA does a much better job of establishing an atmosphere and I think replacing RoA in MK with theming that you can actually see from most places within Frontierland and Liberty Square would similarly do a better job of establishing an atmosphere.

You're absolutely entitled to your opinion that you prefer DL's river. I feel like MK's river does a fine job establishing an atmosphere and it's a shame to lose it.