Captain Marvel 2: "The Marvels" -- Nov 10, 2023 Theatrical Release

[Vegas Disney Fan]

By the way, Vellani’s charisma and skill has been nearly universally praised by critics. That’s not disputable, no matter how much it hurts your feelings.

It is an odd argument, I didn’t even like the show but the acting was the bright spot for me. I could see people arguing against the style of show they made, maybe even against the writing, but the casting, including the parents, was fantastic.

 

[TP2000]

Sorry,,, but I don’t hold your criticisms on any film with any merit… as you said you only watch one film a year… I watch most everything as my favorite film genre is the good film genre… sure The Marvels is not a top 10 film of the year or anything, but it was still a fun time at the movies

As I've never seen it, my only criticisms of the film is based on its financial results.

The free market of global audiences spoke very loudly with their wallets when it came to The Marvels.

As far as Ms Marvel is concerned most people that watched the series rate the show as one of the better Disney + shows.

That may be, but the problem was that the people who watched the series were very few in number. Especially compared to the previous and current Marvel TV programs on Disney+.

Someone watching a show in the 18-49 demographic and REALLY LOVING IT, doesn't count extra in the Nielsen ratings (or with the sponsors) compared to someone else in the 18-49 demographic who watched the same show and only modestly liked it. It's the numbers of people in the 18-49 demographic that Nielsen, and thus shareholders, are after.

 

[TP2000]

Man, the personal animosity and snark on these boards towards young minority actresses is SO WEIRD. We certainly wouldn’t want to recognize any patterns, however.

That line as an attempt to shut down speech stopped working a few years ago. It now makes you look oddly fixated on race.

If Disney is focusing on quality, Ms Marvel is the model - it had the best directing and, along with Loki, the best writing of any D+ series.

I don't doubt that. The problem is that the directing and writing behind Ms. Marvel had an unfortunately small audience for it as a product. So it got cancelled after one season.

By the way, Vellani’s charisma and skill has been nearly universally praised by critics. That’s not disputable, no matter how much it hurts your feelings. The fact that there aren’t many roles available for Pakistani teens who don’t look like supermodels isn’t a dig on Vellani…

She certainly seems to have nailed down the "Quirky & Fun!" personality, and if her acting abilities are as good as everyone says they are I'm sure we'll see her in future TV shows and movies. What is her next Disney gig, by the way? Anyone know?

As for how many roles are available for Pakistani teens, according to the US Census Bureau there are 629,000 people of Pakistani descent living in the USA. That is 0.2% of Americans. If you assume half are female, that gets you 0.1% of Americans. And if you dial that down further into the 16-25 age range, the Pakistani girls in that age bracket would account for 0.01% of the US population.

I'd hate to think what the percentage of that 0.01% of 330 Million Americans that looks like supermodels is, but just from a statistical position, how many roles should there be for a demographic that is 0.01% of America? Statistically speaking, it's rather impressive that a Pakistani teenage girl made it onto her own TV show at all.

 

[Casper Gutman]

great. When’s season 2?

When's season 2 of any D+ Marvel show besides Loki?

You supposedly want Disney to focus on quality and not "distractions." Ms Marvel is a high quality show, very arguably the best Marvel D+ show (only Loki and WandaVision come close). So why aren't you embracing Ms Marvel? What is bothering you about the show?

 

[Disney Irish]

So it got cancelled after one season.

Says who? Do you have confirmation of that? There has been no Marvel announcement that Ms Marvel got cancelled.

 

[erasure fan1]

It is an odd argument, I didn’t even like the show but the acting was the bright spot for me. I could see people arguing against the style of show they made, maybe even against the writing, but the casting, including the parents, was fantastic.

There's two truths here. Iman did a great job with her character and the casting was great. Also, the show didn't land with the vast majority of consumers meaning it might not be as great as some are making it out to be. Both can be true. Unfortunately some seem to not be able to see both sides of it.

 

[Casper Gutman]

There's two truths here. Iman did a great job with her character and the casting was great. Also, the show didn't land with the vast majority of consumers meaning it might not be as great as some are making it out to be. Both can be true. Unfortunately some seem to not be able to see both sides of it.

I’m sorry, the idea that “popularity” equals “quality” is absurd - and that’s me being polite. Let me tell you about this TV show called The Wire. Or this film series called Transformers. Or the entire history of pop culture. Seriously, come on.

 

[EPCOT-O.G.]

When's season 2 of any D+ Marvel show besides Loki?

You supposedly want Disney to focus on quality and not "distractions." Ms Marvel is a high quality show, very arguably the best Marvel D+ show (only Loki and WandaVision come close). So why aren't you embracing Ms Marvel? What is bothering you about the show?

I’m not sure where this “distractions” attribution comes from. I think the MCU has suffered with the push to D+. It’s spread everyone and everything too thin, and diminished the property. They’re not distracted - they changed their approach altogether. Each series has gotten worse and worse, and it’s become a tedious chore. I watched Loki S1 the moment it was available. I haven’t watched one minute of S2.

I don’t really care one way or another with Ms Marvel. I do have a problem with the gaslighting that it’s a popular or well-viewed show given most external the evidence to the contrary.

 

[Disney Irish]

I’m not sure where this “distractions” attribution comes from. I think the MCU has suffered with the push to D+. It’s spread everyone and everything too thin, and diminished the property. Each series has gotten worse and worse, and it’s become a tedious chore. I watched Loki S1 the moment it was available. I haven’t watched one minute of S2.

I don’t really care one way or another with Ms Marvel. I do have a problem with the gaslighting that it’s a popular or well-viewed show given most external the evidence to the contrary.

No one has said the show was "popular", but to say it had no audience is false. With over 1 Billion minutes watched it had an audience. Maybe that's not large enough for you but its clear Ms Marvel had an audience watching it. It was in the top 10 on the Nielsen charts for 3 of its 6 weeks, including toward the end of its run. So it was getting an audience.

Now maybe it was a one and done for many people, but it got views. To say otherwise is just false.

 

[MisterPenguin]

As I've never seen it

You should put *that* in your sig. Save us all a lot of trouble.

 

[erasure fan1]

I’m sorry, the idea that “popularity” equals “quality” is absurd - and that’s me being polite. Let me tell you about this TV show called The Wire. Or this film series called Transformers. Or the entire history of pop culture. Seriously, come on.

This is why there's so much back and forth. It didn't do well. I know no one who made it past the first couple episodes. I know my world is not the end all be all, but I talk to enough people that I should know someone who liked it. You might have loved it and that's fine. But a whole lot of people turned their nose up to it. If it was this amazing gold standard of television, it would have done better. They missed the mark, I'm not sure why that upsets you so much. Like I said earlier, if you feel so strongly that this show was so good. You should be aiming your displeasure with Disney. They're the ones who marketed it and set the tone for what it would be. Not at the people who tried to watch it and said, yea, I don't like it.

Personally I think it's great you loved it. There's room for these type of stories on D+, I've said it before. But we have to get off this the world just had all these hidden agendas and that's why things don't do well. Be happy you got a show you loved, that's what should count in your world. It's hard when something you thought was the best, is something the majority rejected. I had the same thing with muppets mayhem. Do I think the show deserved a bigger viewership? 100% I do. Do I think it should have gotten a 2nd season? Yup, it's the best show on D+ in my eyes. I'm not mad at the people who didn't like it or watch it. I'm mad at Disney for their god awful job of handling the muppets. The way I see it is if Disney is smart, they will sprinkle the character in other films and shows to let people see Imans abilities. She's handled herself well in the interviews I've seen her in, and like you said, most people seemed to like her.

 

[Jedijax719]

Finally saw the movie. Not bad. Certainly didn't deserve the critic crushing it got. Iman Vellani stole the entire movie. It was fun and light and kept my attention. That's all that really matters, isn't it? I wasn't looking for the next Schindler's List.

 

[TP2000]

Says who? Do you have confirmation of that? There has been no Marvel announcement that Ms Marvel got cancelled.

When does Season 2 start?

You should put *that* in your sig. Save us all a lot of trouble.

Done! I've been meaning to write a new signature line, after Miss Zeigler got sent back for rewrites until 2025.

But I tweaked it just a bit, so it makes more sense for those who didn't see your post. I hope you don't mind.

 

[Disney Irish]

When does Season 2 start?

Just because there hasn’t been an announcement yet on a Season 2 doesn’t mean the show has been cancelled. Until some announcement is made one way or the another it should not be assumed the status of the show. In addition not all the MCU shows have had a Season 2 anyways, they were limited series only meant for a single season, so doesn't mean it was cancelled.

I suspect we’ll hear at either Comic-Con in July or D23 in August the status of this show and characters future as well as the rest of the MCU line-up.

 

[TP2000]

Just because there hasn’t been an announcement yet on a Season 2 doesn’t mean the show has been cancelled. Until some announcement is made one way or the another it should not be assumed the status of the show.

So you're saying there's still hope for another season of Hello, Larry?

 

[Disney Irish]

So you're saying there's still hope for another season of Hello, Larry?

Nope, as it was officially cancelled by NBC in 1980. As your sig says, you have an internet connection, you should be able to find that information.

 

[Casper Gutman]

This is why there's so much back and forth. It didn't do well. I know no one who made it past the first couple episodes. I know my world is not the end all be all, but I talk to enough people that I should know someone who liked it. You might have loved it and that's fine. But a whole lot of people turned their nose up to it. If it was this amazing gold standard of television, it would have done better. They missed the mark, I'm not sure why that upsets you so much. Like I said earlier, if you feel so strongly that this show was so good. You should be aiming your displeasure with Disney. They're the ones who marketed it and set the tone for what it would be. Not at the people who tried to watch it and said, yea, I don't like it.

Personally I think it's great you loved it. There's room for these type of stories on D+, I've said it before. But we have to get off this the world just had all these hidden agendas and that's why things don't do well. Be happy you got a show you loved, that's what should count in your world. It's hard when something you thought was the best, is something the majority rejected. I had the same thing with muppets mayhem. Do I think the show deserved a bigger viewership? 100% I do. Do I think it should have gotten a 2nd season? Yup, it's the best show on D+ in my eyes. I'm not mad at the people who didn't like it or watch it. I'm mad at Disney for their god awful job of handling the muppets. The way I see it is if Disney is smart, they will sprinkle the character in other films and shows to let people see Imans abilities. She's handled herself well in the interviews I've seen her in, and like you said, most people seemed to like her.

You continue to pretend quality equals popularity, which is a completely untenable position. Again, we can go through the history of popular culture to see how foolish that position really is.

No one I can see here is denying that Ms Marvel had the lowest viewership of any D+ Marvel show. What IS being denied and handwaved is that the program was almost universally critically acclaimed, more so than any other D+ Marvel show. That’s not really debatable (I believe it’s actually the best reviewed program D+ has produced). The disconnect you’re looking for is that a lot of posters here claim that all they want from Disney is “quality,” but for some reason don’t want this particular, highly acclaimed program. So rather then address that disconnect honestly, they’re looking for ways to denigrate it… for instance, by linking popularity to quality.

There are many, many completely valid reasons not to watch the show. There are many silly but harmless reasons not to watch it. There are also quite a few reasons not to watch the show - and to incessantly attack it - which betray some very unpleasant truths. To understand why Ms Marvel didn’t find an audience and why some here are so determined to attack it you have to be willing to address all these motivations, the vast majority innocent but more than we’d like to admit quite nefarious.

 

[networkpro]

As its a commercial endeavor and not an arthouse presentation, critical acclaim for production values, cast, and and quality means little. What does matter is how many eyeballs it manages to attract in theatrical release and subsequent showing on other media types. Ascribing motivation means naught.

 

[EPCOT-O.G.]

You continue to pretend quality equals popularity, which is a completely untenable position. Again, we can go through the history of popular culture to see how foolish that position really is.

No one I can see here is denying that Ms Marvel had the lowest viewership of any D+ Marvel show. What IS being denied and handwaved is that the program was almost universally critically acclaimed, more so than any other D+ Marvel show. That’s not really debatable (I believe it’s actually the best reviewed program D+ has produced). The disconnect you’re looking for is that a lot of posters here claim that all they want from Disney is “quality,” but for some reason don’t want this particular, highly acclaimed program. So rather then address that disconnect honestly, they’re looking for ways to denigrate it… for instance, by linking popularity to quality.

There are many, many completely valid reasons not to watch the show. There are many silly but harmless reasons not to watch it. There are also quite a few reasons not to watch the show - and to incessantly attack it - which betray some very unpleasant truths. To understand why Ms Marvel didn’t find an audience and why some here are so determined to attack it you have to be willing to address all these motivations, the vast majority innocent but more than we’d like to admit quite nefarious.

Can you please stop insinuating anyone that doesn’t care for Ms Marvel must be both misogynist and racist? You’re very vocal in terms of your opposition to the Tiana retheme, and none of us go there to hint you must harbor some racist ulterior beliefs. Similarly, you seem to really hate the last JJ Abrams Star Wars film - yet we don’t presume to suggest you’re anti semitic.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Can you please stop insinuating anyone that doesn’t care for Ms Marvel must be both misogynist and racist? You’re very vocal in terms of your opposition to the Tiana retheme, and none of us go there to hint you must harbor some racist ulterior beliefs. Similarly, you seem to really hate the last JJ Abrams Star Wars film - yet we don’t presume to suggest you’re anti semitic.

It's not being critical of particular films and shows that's the problem. It's the nature of the criticism.

I'm critical of very specific details about the Tiana retheme but have been very clear about my support for the reasons why the retheme is taking place. If I was vigorously defending Song of the South itself or trying to dismiss the problems with it, yeah... you might reasonably ask questions.

Folks attacking Ms Marvel and other recent Disney products don't pick out specific weaknesses, largely because most haven't seen the media they're attacking. They make broad, vague attacks that often misrepresent the product in question. They also attack the star, despite near universal acclaim even by those who don't like the program. Many of the same posters did this with Halle Bailey as well. It's a pattern - rather then make specific criticisms of the film or show, attack the young minority actress who gave a universally praised performance. (I won't even go into the Zegler issue here, but it's certainly related).

The criticisms also tends to be contradictory. We're told that Disney just needs to produce quality... but the same posters dismiss the best reviewed D+ show. Disney needs to slash budgets... but only hire the most established superstar directors and stars.

I don't think many people look at Vellani and say, "I hate her because of her race so I won't watch the show." I think minority leads and directors have become heavily associated with a particular "team," so a lot of folks reject them because they're part of the other "team" without thinking about the true nature of that rejection or what it might mean for our society. It's why so many people attack shows or films like The Little Mermaid or Lightyear or Ms Marvel or any number of other Disney products as being "woke" without being able to define any particular ways in which that is reflected in the actual media text. It's kneejerk "my team vs your team" - but it needs to be interrogated.