Captain Marvel 2: "The Marvels" -- Nov 10, 2023 Theatrical Release

[Vegas Disney Fan]

I agree with the rest of your post, but this part is the same overgeneralization that you argue against all the time. Ms Marvel did have a nickelodeon/Disney channel feel to it, just with a bigger budget in my opinion. At least the first couple episodes did, the show lost me after that. And that's perfectly fine. I don't find it being compared to that as really being a bad thing or insult. Now maybe it was ment to be. But It was clearly going after that demo, or the trailers and structure would have been different. It was the lowest watched mcu show, so it clearly didn't resonate with the demo they were going after.

Kind of an odd take on a forum comprised primarily of adult Disney fans also, I don’t think anyone here is worried about being into “kiddy stuff” or we wouldn’t be Disney fans.

I enjoy the Tinkerbell movies, I enjoy Bluey… nothing more kiddy than those, Ms Marvel felt like a teenage drama though, similar to High school musical (which I didn’t like either), it’s just a genre that doesn’t appeal to me, that has nothing to do with assuring myself of anything though.

 

[Casper Gutman]

I look at characters like The Flash, both the Jay and Barry version, had used the "regular human turned superhero" trope prior to 1961. So it wasn't all man-gods with stoic speeches about duty. Heck even the Barry version used the joke of the fastest man alive always being late.

I didn’t say stoic, I said stilted. They would joke in the same stiff way a Republic hero might joke at the end of a serial. They were largely infallible and certainly didn’t spend lots of pages worrying about earning money or trying to get a date. The mixture of superheroes and soap opera was Marvel - this is pretty much the entire reason Marvel exploded on college campuses. Barry, the Flash of that period, became one of DC’s more successful attempts to follow the Marvel formula.

 

[Disney Irish]

I didn’t say stoic, I said stilted. They would joke in the same stiff way a Republic hero might joke at the end of a serial. They were largely infallible and certainly didn’t spend lots of pages worrying about earning money or trying to get a date. The mixture of superheroes and soap opera was Marvel - this is pretty much the entire reason Marvel exploded on college campuses. Barry, the Flash of that period, became one of DC’s more successful attempts to follow the Marvel formula.

Except Barry Allen (along with his love interest Iris West) debuted in 1956 with the drama of dating and being a superhero a whole 5 years before Marvel did it in 1961 with F4. So yeah Marvel did it better, and became more successful at it, but Stan wasn't blazing any trails here.

 

[Casper Gutman]

I agree with the rest of your post, but this part is the same overgeneralization that you argue against all the time. Ms Marvel did have a nickelodeon/Disney channel feel to it, just with a bigger budget in my opinion. At least the first couple episodes did, the show lost me after that. And that's perfectly fine. I don't find it being compared to that as really being a bad thing or insult. Now maybe it was ment to be. But It was clearly going after that demo, or the trailers and structure would have been different. It was the lowest watched mcu show, so it clearly didn't resonate with the demo they were going after.

People keep making these comparisons that are completely unsupported by the series and films themselves. Disney Channel and Nickelodeon programming is characterized by big, broad acting (a style distinct enough SNL has dissected it), unsubtle scripts aimed at children, and loose sit-com direction. Ms Marvel had none of this. The only point of similarity was the age of the heroine. The rest - sharp direction (at least for the first four episodes), an intelligent script with a concentration on interpersonal relations, strong and sometimes even subtle performances, and an informed focus on a very specific and rarely-depicted cultural setting - these bare no similarity to High School Musical or its ilk. The criticism is so far off the mark it invites conjecture about hidden motives.

 

[doctornick]

To be fair, I think Captain Marvel (you know, Billy Batson) is probably the better example of the Superhero who is also a real person and relatable to the audience example pre-Fantastic Four. But it’s also true that Marvel really popularized the concept and fundamentally changed comics and superheroes forever.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Except Barry Allen (along with his love interest Iris West) debuted in 1956 with the drama of dating and being a superhero a whole 5 years before Marvel did it in 1961 with F4. So yeah Marvel did it better, and became more successful at it, but Stan wasn't blazing any trails here.

I understand that Barry marked the advent of the “silver age,” but his stories didn’t have anything like the relatability of Marvel’s until well after the development of the Marvel formula in ‘61. In fact, it was Wally West who would really be the Marvel-esque Flash - Barry is still largely remembered as a bland figure whose best moment was his death.

 

[doctornick]

People keep making these comparisons that are completely unsupported by the series and films themselves. Disney Channel and Nickelodeon programming is characterized by big, broad acting (a style distinct enough SNL has dissected it), unsubtle scripts aimed at children, and loose sit-com direction. Ms Marvel had none of this. The only point of similarity was the age of the heroine. The rest - sharp direction (at least for the first four episodes), an intelligent script with a concentration on interpersonal relations, strong and sometimes even subtle performances, and an informed focus on a very specific and rarely-depicted cultural setting - these bare no similarity to High School Musical or its ilk. The criticism is so far off the mark it invites conjecture about hidden motives.

Yeah, I really don’t get that critique of Ms Marvel either. I would agree that the show skewed younger in terms of presentation but wasn’t really reminiscent of Disney Channel/Nickelodeon style shows - they tend to have really stereotyped plots and formulaic structure with laugh tracks and two dimensional characters.

I’d equate Ms Marvel to something more like (early) Buffy the Vampire Slayer. More teen oriented but still similar in scope to super hero shows. Buffy was more developed but it also had a lot more episodes. But I think Ms Marvel would have been the same with enough airtime.

Also the immigrant story told in Ms Marvel was to me very well done and a lot more poignant than the slop we tend to see on tween TV.

 

[Disney Irish]

I understand that Barry marked the advent of the “silver age,” but his stories didn’t have anything like the relatability of Marvel’s until well after the development of the Marvel formula in ‘61. In fact, it was Wally West who would really be the Marvel-esque Flash - Barry is still largely remembered as a bland figure whose best moment was his death.

I'm not taking anything away from what Stan did, obviously I'm a huge Marvel "Stan" (joke intended), but as I mentioned he wasn't really blazing any trails on this front. Other publishers were doing it prior to him. Barry's story, while bland at the time, was dealing with the whole dating and worrying about his personal life while trying to be a superhero 5 years before Stan was with F4.

So to say that it was a Stan innovation to make the characters more relatable is just not true. He and Marvel were just more successful at it than other publishers.

 

[erasure fan1]

People keep making these comparisons that are completely unsupported by the series and films themselves. Disney Channel and Nickelodeon programming is characterized by big, broad acting (a style distinct enough SNL has dissected it), unsubtle scripts aimed at children, and loose sit-com direction. Ms Marvel had none of this. The only point of similarity was the age of the heroine. The rest - sharp direction (at least for the first four episodes), an intelligent script with a concentration on interpersonal relations, strong and sometimes even subtle performances, and an informed focus on a very specific and rarely-depicted cultural setting - these bare no similarity to High School Musical or its ilk. The criticism is so far off the mark it invites conjecture about hidden motives.

I wouldn't say completely unsupported. I've seen the marketing and the first couple episodes. It had that feeling just in a much higher budget/quality. And that marketing was aimed squarely at that demographic. I've said before, there might have been a good story and acting in their. But the look and feel of the show had to have turned people away. That's a big shame on Disney if it wasn't that way through out the series, because that's how it came off. So they really need to market better then. That said, if you want to argue it shouldn't be compared to nick or Disney channel, that's fine. It was the middle age men afraid of kidie stuff that comes off wrong. Because it sure wasn't just middle aged men that tuned out, it was just about everyone.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

Hubs and I watched it on D+ and I totally LOVED it. Such fun. I mean, absolutely silly, but absolutely enjoyable, and why can’t a “comic book movie” be silly and fun?

Exactly!

 

[Tony the Tigger]

Ms Marvel felt like a teenage drama though, similar to High school musical (which I didn’t like either), it’s just a genre that doesn’t appeal to me, that has nothing to do with assuring myself of anything though.

I can see that take on things. I never watched High School Musical, but I've seen "Never Have I Ever" on Netflix, which was kind of similar, without the superhero stuff, among other things like "Teen Wolf" and so forth. I even watched "Even Stevens" back when it was on Disney Channel.

I just don't see it as a negative. But we all like different things!

There's a line somewhere between "90210" and "Full House" where I become less interested. The Marvels was well above that line for me. I found it a refreshing deviation from the usual superhero formula.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

…dear lord…are we still acknowledging this movie exists?

 

[MisterPenguin]

Marvel D+ series have been realized in different genres and uses the tropes of those genres mashed with super-hero tropes.

Ms. Marvel was clearly a coming-of-age teen-girl-likes-boys lighthearted romp. Plus heroics. Taken as such, it was done very well, and I liked it.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

…dear lord…are we still acknowledging this movie exists?

Still making riveting contributions that really matter to the discussion, I see.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Still making riveting contributions that really matter to the discussion, I see.

Gotta keep it “light and agile”

 

[erasure fan1]

Ms. Marvel was clearly a coming-of-age teen-girl-likes-boys lighthearted romp. Plus heroics. Taken as such, it was done very well, and I liked it.

And that's great. I've heard the same things. I tried and it just didn't connect with me, and I fully understand it didn't have to be aimed at me. I think things get muddy because everyone is so overly sensitive. If that type of offering isn't someone's cup of tea, that doesn't make them a (insert what ever name you want). The opposite is true as well if you enjoyed it. My issue is that when something is specifically aimed at a certain demographic, it's not the fault of a different demographic if it doesn't succeed. The marvels is a great example. It's biggest demographic that went to see it was male, 62% plus if I remember. A film clearly marketed to cater more to a female audience. That audience didn't show up. There's a lot that went wrong with ms marvel and the marvels, middle age men wasn't near the top in my opinion.

 

[doctornick]

And that's great. I've heard the same things. I tried and it just didn't connect with me, and I fully understand it didn't have to be aimed at me. I think things get muddy because everyone is so overly sensitive. If that type of offering isn't someone's cup of tea, that doesn't make them a (insert what ever name you want). The opposite is true as well if you enjoyed it. My issue is that when something is specifically aimed at a certain demographic, it's not the fault of a different demographic if it doesn't succeed. The marvels is a great example. It's biggest demographic that went to see it was male, 62% plus if I remember. A film clearly marketed to cater more to a female audience. That audience didn't show up. There's a lot that went wrong with ms marvel and the marvels, middle age men wasn't near the top in my opinion.

I don't think The Marvels was marketed to a female audience though. It was marketed to the same general four quadrant audience as every other MCU movie.

I can see the argument that She-Hulk was marketed towards women, or Ms. Marvel towards teens, given the specifics of their advertisements but not really for The Marvels.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Ms. Marvel was clearly a coming-of-age teen-girl-likes-boys lighthearted romp. Plus heroics. Taken as such, it was done very well, and I liked it.

Disney does not make "bad" movies.
Disney's problem is they spend more money to make and market movies than the movies bring in at the box office.

 

[erasure fan1]

I don't think The Marvels was marketed to a female audience though. It was marketed to the same general four quadrant audience as every other MCU movie.

I don't agree. I just went back and watched the trailer again and yea, it wasn't marketed to the male audience. There was very little in it that skewed male. And that's fine, like I said, everything doesn't need to be for me. I think they did try to pivot when the marketing didn't go so great. That's why you had that crazy shift in tone with the final trailer. Tony, cap, Thanos.... With their voice overs when it had no real bearing on the film.

 

[TP2000]

Yet she was perfectly cast and just about everyone unanimously agrees she is the highlight of the current phase of the MCU… so trying to figure out what the issue is

Ms. Marvel is the "highlight of the current phase of the MCU"?!? If so, yikes! Things are looking even worse for Marvel than I thought.

The "highlight" that had a TV show that had the lowest ratings ever for an MCU show on Disney+, and wasn't picked up for a second season? And the "highlight" that starred in a movie that bombed even worse than her TV show, lost over $200 Million for the studio, and got beat handily by a mediocre movie like Aquaman?

That's the "highlight" for Marvel right now? I'd hate to see the lowlight.

Ms. Marvel Suffers Poor Viewership vs. Other MCU Disney+ Shows

Ms. Marvel premiere drew one of the lowest audience totals out of all the Disney+ MCU projects.

thedirect.com

Ms. Marvel's Viewership the Lowest of Any MCU Disney+ Series

Ms. Marvel has been a relative hit amongst critics, but ratings for the series are the lowest amongst any Marvel series on the streaming platform.

www.comingsoon.net