Captain Marvel 2: "The Marvels" -- Nov 10, 2023 Theatrical Release

[Heppenheimer]

No way! I want to know where is Citizen Kane 2?!?!

"The Revenge of Rosebud"

 

[Casper Gutman]

"The Revenge of Rosebud"

Citizen Kane 2: He Got Better.

“Somehow the publisher returned.”

 

[LSLS]

The Academy Awards are a bad measure of anything except industry mood - look at Green Book and Crash and any number of others. Their relationship to comic book movies is… complicated.

Joker was not particularly well reviewed - it’s at 69% on Rotten Tomatoes, far behind a number of MCU films, and 59 on Metacritic. These are very, very blunt and often inaccurate tools, of course, but they can give a very general sense of critical sentiment. It can serve as a support to a very general statement such as, “Joker is not universally critically beloved.”

Everyone disagrees with critical consensus once in a while. When you care about film and that happens, it’s worth interrogating the source of the difference, a process that should begin with introspection. Why does the product not appeal to me? Is it simply personal taste? That’s almost certainly fine. Or are the critics wrong? That’s possible, but then one has to develop a coherent and convincing theory about WHY the critics are so uniformly incorrect.

Sure, but "Not universally loved" is much different than ripping apart the entire fan base for liking that film. I get not a lot of reviewers didn't like it, but I think it also needs to be acknowledged a lot of people did based on the number of awards. At any rate, I'll stand by hating critic reviews because to me they never care about what I think are the most important things like is it entertaining and keeping your attention.

But, I'm gonna leave it at that from me at least. For what it's worth, I really liked the show, liked parts of the movie, my daughter LOVED the show and liked the movie. Just glad we've moved on from the weird acting credits discussions.

 

[erasure fan1]

my daughter LOVED the show and liked the movie.

And that is why I said there's nothing wrong with them making this show. This is one of the main demographics that the show was aimed at. It's one of the great things about a streaming platform. As long as you aren't killing the budgets, you can make things for a more narrow audience.

 

[Phroobar]

Sure, but "Not universally loved" is much different than ripping apart the entire fan base for liking that film. I get not a lot of reviewers didn't like it, but I think it also needs to be acknowledged a lot of people did based on the number of awards. At any rate, I'll stand by hating critic reviews because to me they never care about what I think are the most important things like is it entertaining and keeping your attention.

But, I'm gonna leave it at that from me at least. For what it's worth, I really liked the show, liked parts of the movie, my daughter LOVED the show and liked the movie. Just glad we've moved on from the weird acting credits discussions.

This board taught me Elemental made money if I look at it from a certain point of view cross eyed and that Iman Vellani is the greatest Disney acting talent since Annette Funicello.

 

[BuddyThomas]

This board taught me Elemental made money if I look at it from a certain point of view cross eyed and that Iman Vellani is the greatest Disney acting talent since Annette Funicello.

You can do your little one man snark show all you want, but that doesn’t change the fact that Elemental was a hit.

Inside Elemental’s Slow-burn Journey from Summer Flop to Year-end Hit

How one of the year’s most crushing box-office failures redeemed itself as an under-the-radar triumph (and Oscar frontrunner) after all.

www.vulture.com

 

[MisterPenguin]

This board taught me Elemental made money if I look at it from a certain point of view cross eyed and that Iman Vellani is the greatest Disney acting talent since Annette Funicello.

Elemental was the fourth most watched movie of all streamers in 2023.

Elemental also popped again in the weekly top ten of streamed movies for the first and third weeks of January.

Elemental was released in June.

Companies routinely have one department pay for another department's work, as if they had to buy or sell that same work with a third party. It's how real life accounting is done. Disney+ pays Disney studios for their content. The millions of dollars collected each month in subscription fees are accrued to content streamed. I'm sorry if you don't like reality.

But, I don't cite facts to convince you, because I know it won't change you. I do this so that the people reading along have a pretty good idea of how cogent your posts are.

 

[Phroobar]

Elemental was the fourth most watched movie of all streamers in 2023.

Elemental also popped again in the weekly top ten of streamed movies for the first and third weeks of January.

Elemental was released in June.

Companies routinely have one department pay for another department's work, as if they had to buy or sell that same work with a third party. It's how real life accounting is done. Disney+ pays Disney studios for their content. The millions of dollars collected each month in subscription fees are accrued to content streamed. I'm sorry if you don't like reality.

But, I don't cite facts to convince you, because I know I won't. I do this so that the people reading along have a pretty good idea of how cogent your posts are.

Still it is an established fact that Elemental didn't make a profit during it's theatrical release. I doubt it made money with streaming either. Besides, it is irrelevant.

But you can fantasyland. Only Disney accountants know for sure.

 

[_caleb]

I personally don't think it's as high of a quality show as you do. And I said based on viewership, a lot of people probably feel the same.

How do people who haven't seen Ms. Marvel coming by their opinion that it's not high quality?

 

[_caleb]

Folks attacking Ms Marvel and other recent Disney products don't pick out specific weaknesses, largely because most haven't seen the media they're attacking. They make broad, vague attacks that often misrepresent the product in question. They also attack the star, despite near universal acclaim even by those who don't like the program. Many of the same posters did this with Halle Bailey as well. It's a pattern - rather then make specific criticisms of the film or show, attack the young minority actress who gave a universally praised performance. (I won't even go into the Zegler issue here, but it's certainly related).

The criticisms also tends to be contradictory. We're told that Disney just needs to produce quality... but the same posters dismiss the best reviewed D+ show. Disney needs to slash budgets... but only hire the most established superstar directors and stars.

I don't think many people look at Vellani and say, "I hate her because of her race so I won't watch the show." I think minority leads and directors have become heavily associated with a particular "team," so a lot of folks reject them because they're part of the other "team" without thinking about the true nature of that rejection or what it might mean for our society. It's why so many people attack shows or films like The Little Mermaid or Lightyear or Ms Marvel or any number of other Disney products as being "woke" without being able to define any particular ways in which that is reflected in the actual media text. It's kneejerk "my team vs your team" - but it needs to be interrogated.

Much of what I read here stands in support of your post here.

"I didn't watch it. I don't like that sort of show." How does someone know what sort of show it is without having seen it?

In my opinion, this is the main issue with these sorts of things: somehow, people are deciding they don't want to watch some of Disney's recent films/series. That'd be fine, but when you ask why not, they respond with something like, "it just wasn't very good."

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

In my opinion, this is the main issue with these sorts of things: somehow, people are deciding they don't want to watch some of Disney's recent films/series. That'd be fine, but when you ask why not, they respond with something like, "it just wasn't very good."

“It didn’t look good” would probably be a more accurate response.

We all pick and choose what to watch based on a few minutes of commercials, articles/reviews, and word of mouth… if a movie doesn’t immediately look appealing, or even worse it looks bad, the odds of someone seeing it in the theaters is basically zero, especially now with streaming, if something doesn’t wow me there’s no reason not to wait to see it on steaming for free.

I think the bigger problem for Disney right now is none of the 2023 movies were very good, as a result everyone that chose to wait for D+ likely feels validated for waiting for streaming. Disney didn’t release one movie last year that I regretted skipping after seeing it on D+, that just makes me more likely to skip everything else that I’m on the fence about.

 

[Phroobar]

“It didn’t look good” would probably be a more accurate response.

We all pick and choose what to watch based on a few minutes of commercials, articles/reviews, and word of mouth… if a movie doesn’t immediately look appealing, or even worse it looks bad, the odds of someone seeing it in the theaters is basically zero, especially now with streaming, if something doesn’t wow me there’s no reason not to wait to see it on steaming for free.

I think the bigger problem for Disney right now is none of the 2023 movies were very good, as a result everyone that chose to wait for D+ likely feels validated for waiting for streaming. Disney didn’t release one movie last year that I regretted skipping after seeing it on D+, that just makes me more likely to skip everything else that I’m on the fence about.

Exactly. As Disney fans we are under no obligation to see, buy or support everything the company makes. It is our obligation to not support bad media in order to get the company to make good media. The Marvels was embarrassingly bad. The marketing made it look like a Freaky Friday remake with girl super heroes. All I could see was Brie Larson making faces and Iman Vellani over reacting to everything.

 

[DKampy]

“It didn’t look good” would probably be a more accurate response.

We all pick and choose what to watch based on a few minutes of commercials, articles/reviews, and word of mouth… if a movie doesn’t immediately look appealing, or even worse it looks bad, the odds of someone seeing it in the theaters is basically zero, especially now with streaming, if something doesn’t wow me there’s no reason not to wait to see it on steaming for free.

I think the bigger problem for Disney right now is none of the 2023 movies were very good, as a result everyone that chose to wait for D+ likely feels validated for waiting for streaming. Disney didn’t release one movie last year that I regretted skipping after seeing it on D+, that just makes me more likely to skip everything else that I’m on the fence about.

You did not like Guardians volume 3 or Elemental… do you think Deadpool will be skipped?

 

[erasure fan1]

How do people who haven't seen Ms. Marvel coming by their opinion that it's not high quality?

Because the marketing didn't look high quality. The trailer came off as a higher quality Disney channel teen action comedy. That doesn't necessarily make it so, but the job of a trailer and the marketing is to get people interested in investing their time into the product. This just didn't succeed in doing that. I fell asleep somewhere in the 3rd episode and never finished as it just didn't hook me. I've heard the ending was good, but the two episodes before weren't. So I'm going to try and go back to finish it, eventually. But the real question is, why did SO many skip it altogether? Not one person in my family, or friends or coworkers even started it outside of myself.

 

[erasure fan1]

We all pick and choose what to watch based on a few minutes of commercials, articles/reviews, and word of mouth… if a movie doesn’t immediately look appealing, or even worse it looks bad, the odds of someone seeing it in the theaters is basically zero, especially now with streaming

I think the bigger problem for Disney right now is none of the 2023 movies were very good,

This pretty well sums it up in a nutshell for me. I've been saying, you have a small window to generate hype and put your best foot forward. It's the studios job to make me want to see what they're selling. And it's made worse since the majority of films Disney has released over the last couple years haven't landed with general audience's. People just aren't as willing to give them the benefit of the doubt right now. It used to be just the opposite for me. I would just go see whatever pixar, mcu, Disney animation... when they came out, even with a meh trailer. It's a problem the film industry has made for itself.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

You did not like Guardians volume 3 or Elemental… do you think Deadpool will be skipped?

I enjoyed them both on D+ but not enough to make me wish I’d seen them in a theater.

I have only seen one commercial for Deadpool so far and I haven’t read any reviews, not enough to decide if I’ll pay to see it in the theater or not. If people love it I’ll likely pay to see it, if people say it’s “just ok” I’ll wait.

 

[erasure fan1]

@Casper Gutman
Yes the trailer looked like a teen action comedy. You can be in denial about that all you want. I didn't say that it's what the show ended up being. You just keep skewing what's being said. You are so concerned with defending this show, that I said was good that they made, so you can be right that you make yourself look foolish. But since your opinion on entertainment is the only right one apparently. Why don't you tell me why it was the lowest viewed show? I know what you are trying to get the people who didn't connect with it to say.

 

[doctornick]

How do people who haven't seen Ms. Marvel coming by their opinion that it's not high quality?

To be fair to @erasure fan1 s/he watched some episodes but wasn't engaged and dropped it. That's pretty much what you are proposing someone to do here.

Personally, I thought Ms. Marvel was great - probably my second or third favorite MCU show after WandaVision and maybe Loki - but I don't begrudge someone for not finding it to be their cup of tea. Especially if they gave it a shot. I can also understand people skipping it if they felt the advertising didn't appeal to them.

 

[erasure fan1]

Personally, I thought Ms. Marvel was great - probably my second or third favorite MCU show after WandaVision and maybe Loki - but I don't begrudge someone for not finding it to be their cup of tea. Especially if they gave it a shot.

And by the logic I've seen here by a few people, you'd be wrong not to put it number one. It was the highest rated mcu show so it obviously has to be everyone's favorite. But that's just nonsense. I've defended the show, said it was good they made it and these type of projects are what D+ was built for in my opinion. Yet I still keep getting the "hidden agenda" nonsense. What needs to be answered, but no one seems to want to talk about, is WHY it didn't land with so many people.

 

[Disney Irish]

And by the logic I've seen here by a few people, you'd be wrong not to put it number one. It was the highest rated mcu show so it obviously has to be everyone's favorite. But that's just nonsense. I've defended the show, said it was good they made it and these type of projects are what D+ was built for in my opinion. Yet I still keep getting the "hidden agenda" nonsense. What needs to be answered, but no one seems to want to talk about, is WHY it didn't land with so many people.

I'll take a stab at it, I don't think perceived quality had anything to do with it. I don't think it garnered a larger audience because it wasn't tied into a larger story arc that made it a "must watch" or had a previously introduced fan favorite character. So unlike WandaVison or Loki there wasn't already a builtin audience or story arc for the character. Similar thing happened with Moon Knight, lower audience viewership.

And to touch upon something said earlier, while it didn't have a huge audience, the audience it did have skewed younger and was more diverse than other shows which is good overall for the MCU. I would agree that these type of shows should be on D+, especially to introduce new characters. I recently read an article where it was discussed how Marvel needs to go back and start doing the One Shot shorts again. Except I would expand upon that and make them limited series on D+.