Captain Marvel 2: "The Marvels" -- Nov 10, 2023 Theatrical Release

[TP2000]

Wow….that is the issue right there… You have an opinion on the movie cause the looks of the actresses

Slight correction; I have an opinion on why the movie bombed so badly with its target audience and core demographic. And that's because of the looks of the actresses. Again, we're talking about teenage boys and young college aged guys.

… and one I disagree with… Iman Vellani is completely adorable as Ms Marvel…

She may be adorable, a talented actress, and a genuinely good person. But her TV show bombed and was not picked up for a second season, and then her movie bombed even bigger. Marvels fans just aren't that into her.

and as Straight Male… Brie Larson is smoking

She seems to have aged out of that role though. The photos I have seen of Ms. Larson make her look like she is in her late 30's, and when I Googled her I was surprised to learn she is only 34. She looks a few years older than 34, especially for Hollywood where a 34 year old would still try to pull off 27.

She just looked a tad too old for that line of work, in the few moments I've spent viewing her online and in movie posters.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

I think it was tanked by negative word of mouth from people pre-disposed to criticize the film for having female and minority protagonists.

I think it tanked because of what came before it, the last antman was mediocre, the last Thor was mediocre, the Cpt Marvel series was mediocre (I know some love it but I’m basing that on the fact very few actually watched it), She hulk was mediocre (to bad depending on who you ask), externals was mediocre (and forgettable), even Black Panther 2 didn’t live up to the first (although it was pretty good)… not much reason to rush out and pay to see a MCU movie when they’ve been more bad than good since Endgame.

Disney is like the restaurant you used to love because it offered good, consistant, comfort food… and then you got a bad meal, and gave them another chance and got another bad meal, and then gave them another chance and got another bad meal… eventually you stop giving them chances and just stop going.

 

[_caleb]

I think it tanked because of what came before it, the last antman was mediocre, the last Thor was mediocre, the Cpt Marvel series was mediocre (I know some love it but I’m basing that on the fact very few actually watched it), She hulk was mediocre (to bad depending on who you ask), externals was mediocre (and forgettable), even Black Panther 2 didn’t live up to the first (although it was pretty good)… not much reason to rush out and pay to see a MCU movie when they’ve been more bad than good since Endgame.

Disney is like the restaurant you used to love because it offered good, consistant, comfort food… and then you got a bad meal, and gave them another chance and got another bad meal, and then gave them another chance and got another bad meal… eventually you stop giving them chances and just stop going.

This is the part I don’t understand, though. What are the “bad meals” that are keeping people away if the folks who actually see the “bad” movies say they’re good (or, at least, not bad)?

 

[MarvelCharacterNerd]

It's been said before, but along with political divides and mediocre storytelling efforts, Disney+ killed their box office.

Anecdotal, of course, but I used to see pretty much everything Disney/Pixar/Marvel/Star Wars in theaters before Covid. But when Covid hit and Disney+ arrived in fuller force, it was permission granted not to go back to movie theaters. I accepted the choice of having to try (and often fail) to avoid spoilers to just wait for everything to stream. I haven't seen a new movie in a theater since pre-pandemic. I have no reason to return.

And I don't have some fantastic home theater setup. I have a more than decade-old non-smart TV and no other accessories like sound bars or anything. So, no, it doesn't compare to the theater experience. But I equally don't have people talking or on their phones and I can pause it as needed. Theater offers nothing that compares to that.

And of course the price. Paying $2-$3/month? Sure. Paying $18 (or more) for one movie in a theater? Heck no.

I'm actually really looking forward to streaming this movie as I adore Ms. Marvel and like Monica. Plus flerkens! But yeah, seeing it in a theater wasn't happening when I can watch it at home eventually.


And on a separate note, Monica & Kamala are still greeting guests at Avengers Campus.

And I wish I'd taken a pic of it, but there was a random child's mannequin in a window of Elias & Co at DCA wearing a Captain Marvel costume amidst the rest of the Christmas decorations. Even I thought that was... weird.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

This is the part I don’t understand, though. What are the “bad meals” that are keeping people away if the folks who actually see the “bad” movies say they’re good (or, at least, not bad)?

I gave 5 examples in my post, the MCU has been putting out mostly mediocre movies for a couple years now, maybe that doesn’t equal your definition of bad but most people aren’t going to keep going back to a restaurant that consistently offers mediocre meals.

There’s advantages to eating out but those advantages are lost if the food is mediocre. I’d rather cook a good meal at home than pay for a mediocre meal, even if that means having to cook it myself and clean up after myself. The same is true of movies, there’s advantages to seeing a movie on a big screen but if the movie is mediocre those advantages are lost, I’d rather rewatch an amazing movie at home on my 65” TV than pay to watch a mediocre new film at a theater.

 

[spacemt354]

This is the part I don’t understand, though. What are the “bad meals” that are keeping people away if the folks who actually see the “bad” movies say they’re good (or, at least, not bad)?

I'm not sure how else Vegas could have articulated it.

You go to the theaters since 2021 for MCU films and see things such as Eternals, Thor 4, and Ant-Man, etc, you become more selective in the films that you actively pay to see. There may be some winners still in there but it's not as much of a sure thing as before (ex Phase 3)

That may mean that you skip films that don't look appealing on the surface. But for those who go to see them, perhaps they are "not bad" as you state, but as the consumer after repeat "bad meals" that is a risk willing to take especially when the film will be out 3-4 months later and the MCU rush to see the films opening weekend is not the same as it used to be.

 

[_caleb]

I gave 5 examples in my post, the MCU has been putting out mostly mediocre movies for a couple years now, maybe that doesn’t equal your definition of bad but most people aren’t going to keep going back to a restaurant that consistently offers mediocre meals.

There’s advantages to eating out but those advantages are lost if the food is mediocre. I’d rather cook a good meal at home than pay for a mediocre meal, even if that means having to cook it myself and clean up after myself. The same is true of movies, there’s advantages to seeing a movie on a big screen but if the movie is mediocre those advantages are lost, I’d rather rewatch an amazing movie at home on my 65” TV than pay to watch a mediocre new film at a theater.

Got it. So “bad meals” = “mediocre movies.” I see what you mean now.

 

[erasure fan1]

I gave 5 examples in my post, the MCU has been putting out mostly mediocre movies for a couple years now, maybe that doesn’t equal your definition of bad but most people aren’t going to keep going back to a restaurant that consistently offers mediocre meals.

I think you are correct. And when you couple that with no clear direction for the mcu, you end up with an audience who will be content with waiting for D+. I didn't think any of the mcu films were bad, except eternals. But the vast majority were one and done for me. The only 2 films post endgame I've watched multiple times are spiderman no way home and guardians 3. And the D+ shows, again not bad, except she hulk, didn't have that must see status. And I think the overall viewership reflects that. So now add all that up, and it's going to make a tuff hill to climb for a film like the marvels. Even if the marvels was great, it would have still struggled in my opinion based on the mediocrity of what has come before it.

 

[Hawkeye_2018]

I still think people really underestimate how bad the trailers were for this. CM is way overpowered as a super hero and they give us a generic villain that looks like zero threat? Nothing in those trailers suggested you needed to see this in theaters rather than waiting for the stream

 

[Phroobar]

I still think people really underestimate how bad the trailers were for this. CM is way overpowered as a super hero and they give us a generic villain that looks like zero threat? Nothing in those trailers suggested you needed to see this in theaters rather than waiting for the stream

Don't forget about the Freaky Friday thing that most of the trailers were about.

 

[DKampy]

Don't forget about the Freaky Friday thing that most of the trailers were about.

It was not really Freaky Friday… they changed places not bodies

 

[erasure fan1]

I still think people really underestimate how bad the trailers were for this.

Some people do for sure. The whole point of a trailer is to make people want to see a film. And this film was handicapped right from the start with its trailers. They started off with a more silly tone. Then when that didn't resonate, they went all serious with Thanos, Cap and Iron man... Further muddying the waters.

Nothing in those trailers suggested you needed to see this in theaters rather than waiting for the stream

We are no longer in a time that most people just take a flyer on a film because nothing else is going on. That trailer and marketing push can have a huge effect on how a film does. Especially when you have a film like the marvels that's coming off of a not so spectacular run of mcu films. We've seen this a bunch from Disney in the last couple years.

 

[Phroobar]

It was not really Freaky Friday… they changed places not bodies

Not bodies but abilities. Similar idea.

 

[spacemt354]

Some people do for sure. The whole point of a trailer is to make people want to see a film. And this film was handicapped right from the start with its trailers. They started off with a more silly tone. Then when that didn't resonate, they went all serious with Thanos, Cap and Iron man... Further muddying the waters.

We are no longer in a time that most people just take a flyer on a film because nothing else is going on. That trailer and marketing push can have a huge effect on how a film does. Especially when you have a film like the marvels that's coming off of a not so spectacular run of mcu films. We've seen this a bunch from Disney in the last couple years.

I thought the final trailer shown with Monday Night Football the week before its release was particularly desperate on Marvel's part.



Not only does the trailer reuse footage from the original Avengers team from Endgame, but it implies the villain is on the level of Thanos, finishing what he started. It also plays the Avengers music in the trailer when the film had nothing to do with the Avengers.

 

[Phroobar]

I thought the final trailer shown with Monday Night Football the week before its release was particularly desperate on Marvel's part.



Not only does the trailer reuse footage from the original Avengers team from Endgame, but it implies the villain is on the level of Thanos, finishing what he started. It also plays the Avengers music in the trailer when the film had nothing to do with the Avengers.

That trailer was total bait and switch. Too late though.

 

[_caleb]

The first trailer targeted a segment of audiences by featuring some of the more light-hearted aspects of the film.

Unpleasable people pointed to the trailer as illustrating all that's wrong with Marvel, Disney, Millennials, and society in general.

The second trailer was likely an attempt to counter that narrative by showing that it was, in fact, just another Marvel superhero movie.

Most films these days have multiple trailers, each emphasizing a different aspect of the film and targeted at different audiences.

 

[Phroobar]

Neither trailer was very good. Even if they combined them, it would have given too much away and no one would have still seen it.

 

[erasure fan1]

Unpleasable people pointed to the trailer as illustrating all that's wrong with Marvel, Disney, Millennials, and society in general.

Yes, there are some who hate Disney no matter what they do. But who cares about them? They didn't take this movie down. Most people thought the trailer was just not very good. Nothing in the trailer said, you have to see this film.

The second trailer was likely an attempt to counter that narrative by showing that it was, in fact, just another Marvel superhero movie.

Showing Thanos and Cap and Ironman was not to counter the "haters". It was to make people think the movie was bigger and more important than it actually is. It was a hail Mary to try and drum up some positive excitement. Because even most of the ardent Disney/mcu supporters weren't all that interested. It was a bad move. Retooling the trailer to show a more serious side of the film, ok, fine. But that isn't what they did and I personally think it hurt the film. Most people can see right though that. Especially since many felt mislead with the first movie that it was so important to endgame. As they say, fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

 

[Hawkeye_2018]

Antman 3 had pretty lousy trailers too. I thought Guardians 3 had lackluster trailers as well but that franchise has built up enough goodwill that it really didn't matter.

 

[_caleb]

Yes, there are some who hate Disney no matter what they do. But who cares about them? They didn't take this movie down. Most people thought the trailer was just not very good. Nothing in the trailer said, you have to see this film.

I think those folks had a big part in the film's box office failure. Negative word of mouth was huge for this one. I think it affected how people perceived the trailers, which then generated a wave of negative reactions among people who had not seen the film.

Showing Thanos and Cap and Ironman was not to counter the "haters". It was to make people think the movie was bigger and more important than it actually is. It was a hail Mary to try and drum up some positive excitement.

I think the reason they needed to "drum up positive excitement" was that their favorite cable news, political radio, and social media pundits told them the trailers were an indication that the Marvel they loved had been replaced with propaganda or something.

Because even most of the ardent Disney/mcu supporters weren't all that interested. It was a bad move. Retooling the trailer to show a more serious side of the film, ok, fine. But that isn't what they did and I personally think it hurt the film. Most people can see right though that. Especially since many felt mislead with the first movie that it was so important to endgame. As they say, fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Fair enough. I think they were trying to show that this film was intended to be one of the tentpoles for the MCU (vs. WandaVision or Ms. Marvel, which were.... whatever isn't a tentpole. Just inside the tent, but not holding it up? IDK.