Captain Marvel 2: "The Marvels" -- Nov 10, 2023 Theatrical Release

MrPromey

MrPromey

Well-Known Member
Casper Gutman said:
It was absolutely an element of generational trauma and the heritage that Ms Marvel is trying to come to terms with - the entire point of her story. It is part of HER story - that fact is part of the SHOW’S story. It’s also echoed throughout the narrative, a key thematic melody woven in and out - the villains, the hero’s powers, all of it is tied together with the historical elements. Despite the rushed back half, it’s quite skillful writing.

And things like the Holocaust aren’t just formative for Magneto, it’s absolutely foundational to the themes running through all of modern X-Men.

I’m not sure how folks are piling on - we’re debating opinions about a Disney product, the point of these boards. It’s all opinions.
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Now you're saying something different here from what I responded to.

You pointed to specific characters and events those characters had been involved with in their lives and then tried to say it was basically the same as what they did here.

You specifically talked about Magneto and the Holocaust. Now you're saying it's about more than Magneto and of course, you've dropped the Captain America and Punisher and Iron Man talk since that doesn't fit this new direction you're going in rather than just admitting my response to your original remarks were true.

I'd call that shifting the goalpost.

Sorry - you're never going to convince me that girl's connection to Partition is the same as Captain American's to WW2.

Maybe if I'd binge watched this instead of seeing it weekly I'd have felt differently, too but that's not how Disney chooses to release this stuff.
 
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Vegas Disney Fan

Vegas Disney Fan

Well-Known Member
MisterPenguin said:
We, and just about the whole world have been using the larger pool of critics on RT.

But now that one can make Marvels look worse by using the "top critics," then, all of sudden, that's the only number to look at. Fancy that!

Why did you wait years to tell us to only look at "top critics" for a real evaluation of movies?
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It’s funny how people (in general) tend to select what’s relevant and what’s not based on what supports their belief for a particular project.

All critic reviews, top critic reviews, all guest reviews, verified guest reviews… we have 4 choices to pick from, often with completely different results, so one of them is bound to confirm everyone’s stance.
 
Casper Gutman

Casper Gutman

Well-Known Member
MrPromey said:
Sorry - you're never going to convince me that girl's connection to Partition is the same as Captain American's to WW2.

Maybe if I'd binge watched this instead of seeing it weekly I'd have felt differently, too but that's not how Disney chooses to release this stuff.
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That it DOES matter is the entire argument the show is making, the whole point. It’s fine to disagree with that, but the show was doing something very intentional and relatively narratively sophisticated (for the MCU) with the Partition.
 
MrPromey

MrPromey

Well-Known Member
Casper Gutman said:
That it DOES matter is the entire argument the show is making, the whole point. It’s fine to disagree with that, but the show was doing something very intentional and relatively narratively sophisticated (for the MCU) with the Partition.
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Huh?

I don't think I said it doesn't.

I mean, something happened in my ancestors lives to put me in this thread right now, right?

I'm just saying I think the comparisons you're making are weak.

We didn't get a two episode arc about Sam Wilson's heritage in Captain America and the Winter soldier although I guess we certainly could have. They did definitely touch on his personal life and certain unfair hardships resulting from that. They even went into the treatment of what could be considered his "cultural" predecessor and how all of that was weighing on his personal choices with how to deal with this new role. I'd say it was done better and was a more relevant and obvious thing than it was presented as being here for this girl who didn't know she should feel something about all of that until it's explained to her that she should.

But my main argument is how they took the focus of almost two full episodes to put it on this near the end of a six episode season.*


I did not like the pacing and it felt like a much dryer two weeks, especially how they put the breaks on everything to address it coming up on the end of things.

I'm glad you enjoyed it.

I'd have liked it more of they'd done it differently.

I'm not saying to have taken it all out - just done it differently so it didn't feel like a two week pause in the rest of the series as things were getting more heated.


*Correction - my main argument is I liked the character more than the show and I hope she doesn't get dropped from the wider MCU as a result of how well this particular movie does or doesn't do.

MisterPenguin said:
"directly" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.
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Kind of like in life.

Everything affects everything indirectly, doesn't it?
 
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Disney Irish

Disney Irish

Premium Member
MrPromey said:
Sorry - you're never going to convince me that girl's connection to Partition is the same as Captain American's to WW2.

Maybe if I'd binge watched this instead of seeing it weekly I'd have felt differently, too but that's not how Disney chooses to release this stuff.
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My opinion, is even if she wasn't directly involved as Cap was, she was certainly directly impacted. The events of Partition lead to how her mother was raised by her grandmother, and how her mother raised her, ie it impacted her upbringing.

One does not need to be directly involved in an event in order to by impacted by that event. And so the story of her family being impacted by the events of Partition is important to her upbringing and shades how her personality is formed.
 
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DKampy

Well-Known Member
EPCOT-O.G. said:
Only 8 percentage points until it matches the critical darlings of Indiana Jones V (69% RT) and comes within striking distance of Strange World (72%).

It does have a good change of matching or surpassing The Flash (63%), at least critically.
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And it’s already passed Super Mario Bros…what’s your point
 
MrPromey

MrPromey

Well-Known Member
TheMaxRebo said:
just got back from seeing it and thought it was a really fun movie - felt more like an old school MCU movie than a lot of other recent releases.

Definitely worth seeing I think
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vikescaper said:
I really enjoyed it and definitely agree that it felt more like old school MCU. Iman Vellani just makes me smile because I can tell that she is having the time of her life.
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Just got home, too.

This movie was hardly the train wreck everything was pointing to it being.

In terms of the greater MCU, I think it's a blip. That final trailer talking about the thing that'll change everything seems to be alluding more to a mid-credit scene than anything that happens in the main plot.

Having said that, I think it was a fun movie and if you don't try to think too hard, it'll be a refreshing break from everything that's come out post-pandemic not featuring spider webs or a talking racoon.

As Casper mentioned somewhere in this thread that he'd heard, the original trailers far more accurately depict the tone of this movie than that final one does.

A lot of it is silly, one part in particular borders on corny (but intentionally so) and I'm not going to say I think this is among the best Marvel movies but I think there have been far worse, both after and before End Game.

I saw it alone tonight mostly out of morbid curiosity and not wanting to pay for a second ticket to take my son if it really ended up being awful but I'll go again to take him which for anyone doing the math, will be my third ticket so I think it's fair to say I liked it. ;)
 
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TheMaxRebo

TheMaxRebo

Well-Known Member
MrPromey said:
Just got home, too.

This movie was hardly the train wreck everything was pointing to it being.

In terms of the greater MCU, I think it's a blip. That final trailer talking about the thing that'll change everything seems to be alluding more to a mid-credit scene than anything that happens in the main plot.

Having said that, I think it was a fun movie and if you don't try to think too hard, it'll be a refreshing break from everything that's come out post-pandemic not featuring spider webs or a talking racoon.

As Casper mentioned somewhere in this thread that he'd heard, the original trailers far more accurately depict the tone of this movie than that final one does.

A lot of it is silly, one part in particular borders on corny (but intentionally so) and I'm not going to say I think this is among the best Marvel movies but I think there have been far worse, both after and before End Game.

I saw it alone tonight mostly out of morbid curiosity and not wanting to pay for a second ticket to take my son if it really ended up being awful but I'll go again to take him which for anyone doing the math, will be my third ticket so I think it's fair to say I liked it. ;)
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I actually thought what happened right at the end of the actual movie is more interesting and sets up more than the mid credit scene
 
MarvelCharacterNerd

MarvelCharacterNerd

Well-Known Member
MrPromey said:
Depends on the amount of runtime they decided to devote to that backstory in a movie or show that bills itself a something else. (full disclosure, I haven't seen all the X-Men movies so you may be referencing something I don't understand)

In the case of Ms. Marvel, they took a story about a teenage girl in NJ and flashed back to something that had nothing to do with her, directly. At least in the case of Magneto, it created context for his world view and why he was a complex villain. In her case, it was some sort of place-making to explain why beings wanted to use her up to get back to their own dimension or space or whatever?

Devoting an episode or more of a show like this that only drops one a week where things slide into an entirely different tone and pacing from the rest of it just felt weird.

To be clear, that's just my personal take on it and I want to be clear on that - I'm not suggesting I am the arbiter of all that should and shouldn't be.

I clearly wasn't the target audience this was intended for in more ways than one which would be fine if not for this whole MCU thing where everything bleeds into everything else intentionally so they can manipulate audiences with FOMO to sit through everything, including the Eternals.

That's where the "we didn't make this for you" argument falls apart some. (not that you are saying that but it's an argument I've heard a few times) They didn't make this or that for the audience they've groomed for a decade+ to watch everything they put out to keep up with the overarching story?
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Don't watch the Doctor Who episode "Demons of the Punjab" made years earlier that did the same story then. :D
Plot: Yasmin travels in time to visit her grandmother during her youth in the partition of India, but everyone gets caught up in the tragic bloodshed of that era.

(Doctor Who also did the
narcissistic character falling for his female variant
story before Loki did. :D)
 
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doctornick

Well-Known Member
So I firmly think this is going to bomb (unfortunately) but we’ll get a sense of what the “legs” will potentially be like after the weekend. One we’ll have a Cinemascore which tracks well with how much an audience likes a film. And two we’ll see how the box office plays out over the weekend - a stronger Sunday generally means word of mouth is supporting a film and encouraging people to see it while a big Sunday drop means early viewer reviews have discouraged others.
 
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doctornick

Well-Known Member
Also, is having the Loki finale on the same night as The Marvels opening a good idea? I’m not sure how much the Thursday box office really matters but I feel that is likely to have suppressed it a little tonight by some die hards staying home to see Loki instead.
 
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TheMaxRebo

TheMaxRebo

Well-Known Member
doctornick said:
Also, is having the Loki finale on the same night as The Marvels opening a good idea? I’m not sure how much the Thursday box office really matters but I feel that is likely to have suppressed it a little tonight by some die yards staying home to see Loki instead.
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Maybe - though they have also done some cross marketing and playing up the two things as sort of a mini-event

 

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