Captain Marvel 2: "The Marvels" -- Nov 10, 2023 Theatrical Release

[MrPromey]

No "play." No agenda. I thought you wanted to discuss the Partition scenes episodes in Ms. Marvel since you offered your opinion about it.

FTFY

If it had been a few scenes, or maybe even something woven into the entire series with smaller flashbacks I'd have been far more cool with it but devoting entire episodes to it with a totally different tone from everything else in a show that dropped weekly killed the momentum for me watching it in real-time.

Having said that, I try to be clear as much as possible that my opinion is my opinion.

What I'm not cool with is other people attacking my opinion with their own and wording it as if their opinion is fact.

My whole point though was that while I wasn't a fan of the show, I was of the character. In fact, the moving away from her for a lot of those parts may have been a bit of why I didn't like it.

I was looking forward to seeing that character in this movie. I'm not looking as forward to seeing this movie as I initially was. (we'll still go see it)

If this movie bombs either because it sucks or because bad marketing efforts and buzz kill an otherwise good or okay/decent movie, I hope they don't give up on the character and the actress playing her because I think the MCU could use more of the bright-eyed-and-plucky and a little less of the cynical, sarcastic, weary characters at this point.

That's one reason I think Tom Holland's Spiderman has been so well received.

I think there's room for both types of characters but I feel like the focus has been more and more toward the jaded side of things.

To be clear, I'm not asking for why I'm wrong for not liking it but I also wasn't a fan of Multiverse of Madness although I'd be happy to see more of Xochitl Gomez's character in new stuff, too.

 

[DKampy]

Hopefully people actually show up to see it then...projections for this one are not exactly...catching fire....

see what I did there?

Anyways, I think the budget for this one was only $100 million.

Yeah.. hopefully… there are no reviews yet…but early reactions are promising…I know great reactions don’t always add up to great reviews… but these seem better than your average social media reviews… with some calling it the best Hunger Games film… I also personally know a couple of people who saw it early and said it’s great… they said could see it being a word of mouth hit

At any rate with the smaller budget… I think it’s chances of at least breaking even worldwide are decent

 

[Casper Gutman]

I was not the hugest fan of Ms Marvel as a series. I didn't like the two-dimensional government bad guys ready to break the rules because they couldn't let go of their apparent zeal for profiling and I could have done without the Marvel-tinged history lesson regarding the partition in India.*

I get it's a real thing that affected many people in that part of the world and that it's something they apparently cover in the comics but I'm not really looking for history lessons from other countries in my super hero stuff.**

Having said all of that, I thought her portrayal was awesome - like even better than Tom as Peter Parker in terms of the new innocent one coming into their own.

I was looking forward to this one to see more of that character and I'm still going to see it but my expectations have been dropping now for months.

However this does, I really hope they find a place for her in something that works. I think the character and the actress both deserve it.


*I assume I wasn't the target audience this was meant to pander to.

**Not against learning - just don't like it hoisted on me in my escapist entertainment.

To be fair, “history lessons” are an integral part of Marvel characters and the Marvel universe. Captain America was formed by WWII, Magneto by the Holocaust, Punisher and Iron Man by Vietnam (in the MCU, the War on Terror stands in as IMs formative event), and so on. Ms Marvel’s use of the Partition is absolutely in line with the Marvel tradition.

 

[Disney Analyst]

Critics Consensus is up.

 

[Casper Gutman]

RT is unusable unless you’re looking at Top Critics. The overall score include reviews from sites like Comic Book Movie Central and Bill’s Movie Blog. Very credible viewpoints if you’re a Marvel addict. Less so for the rest of humanity.

When you look at the Top Critics on this, it’s dire. Haven’t seen so many 0/4, 1/4, 1.5/4, 2/5 reviews of a major tentpole release in ages.

Major critics have their own biases as well. A LOT have been waiting for the MCU to stumble for years because they see it as a barrier to “true cinema” - much like you, I believe. And your second paragraph is hyperbolic nonsense.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

How clever of you.

Sure, I'll play along - huge difference between The Land at Epcot and having a point on Big Thunder Mountain where the train stops for you to watch a six minute movie about the environmental effects of mining and the displacement of Native Americans as a result of prospectors claiming land for natural resources.

Anyway, god forbid I be allowed my own opinion, right?

But you do you.

For the analogy to work, it would be more like a 30 second video at the end of the queue, but whatev.

What I'm not cool with is other people attacking my opinion with their own and wording it as if their opinion is fact.

Did that happen?

 

[MisterPenguin]

In Korea.

I don't think the Marvels has the same cuteness quality to do really well in Korea.

It will do gangbusters in Latveria.

 

[MisterPenguin]

RT is unusable unless you’re looking at Top Critics.

We, and just about the whole world have been using the larger pool of critics on RT.

But now that one can make Marvels look worse by using the "top critics," then, all of sudden, that's the only number to look at. Fancy that!

Why did you wait years to tell us to only look at "top critics" for a real evaluation of movies?

 

[J4546]

i have no desire to see this, or the eternals stuff either, really just wanna see the main avengers, gotg, spiderman, hopefull xmen and fantastic 4 in the future.

 

[Casper Gutman]

FTFY

If it had been a few scenes, or maybe even something woven into the entire series with smaller flashbacks I'd have been far more cool with it but devoting entire episodes to it with a totally different tone from everything else in a show that dropped weekly killed the momentum for me watching it in real-time.

Having said that, I try to be clear as much as possible that my opinion is my opinion.

What I'm not cool with is other people attacking my opinion with their own and wording it as if their opinion is fact.

My whole point though was that while I wasn't a fan of the show, I was of the character. In fact, the moving away from her for a lot of those parts may have been a bit of why I didn't like it.

I was looking forward to seeing that character in this movie. I'm not looking as forward to seeing this movie as I initially was. (we'll still go see it)

If this movie bombs either because it sucks or because bad marketing efforts and buzz kill an otherwise good or okay/decent movie, I hope they don't give up on the character and the actress playing her because I think the MCU could use more of the bright-eyed-and-plucky and a little less of the cynical, sarcastic, weary characters at this point.

That's one reason I think Tom Holland's Spiderman has been so well received.

I think there's room for both types of characters but I feel like the focus has been more and more toward the jaded side of things.

To be clear, I'm not asking for why I'm wrong for not liking it but I also wasn't a fan of Multiverse of Madness although I'd be happy to see more of Xochitl Gomez's character in new stuff, too.

I understand that it’s your opinion, and Caleb and I are simply offering ours - genuinely no aspersions intended. But since the Partition was so central to so much of the show… maybe it was intended to be understood as incredibly integral to the characters and the entire theme and arc of the story? It was absolutely fundamental to the shows story of displacement (echoed by the villains) and the struggles of immigrant communities in general - it’s the stuff that makes Ms Marvel interesting!

As for more recent trauma, it was there, but you didn’t like the profiling element either.

Marvel has always been smack dab in reality. DC is the more fantastic world.

 

[MisterPenguin]

In the case of Ms. Marvel, they took a story about a teenage girl in NJ and flashed back to something that had nothing to do with her, directly.

"directly" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.

The Partition, like many culturally devastating moments of war, upheaval, oppression, etc..., can leave scars of generational PTSD.

We see this in Kamala's mother and grandmother and how they treat their daughters.

Kamala was created specifically to provide a Muslim point of view and introduce readers to Muslim culture. The Partition is a big part of that experience for a large segment of Muslims.

And... it provides another mythological setting for comic book fantasy with regard to extra-dimensional beings and their incursion into our world. Just like we saw in Shang-Chi, but from a Chinese perspective.

 

[Casper Gutman]

"directly" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.

The Partition, like many culturally devastating moments of war, upheaval, oppression, etc..., can leave scars of generational PTSD.

We see this in Kamala's mother and grandmother and how they treat their daughters.

Kamala was created specifically to provide a Muslim point of view and introduce readers to Muslim culture. The Partition is a big part of that experience for a large segment of Muslims.

And... it provides another mythological setting for comic book fantasy with regard to extra-dimensional beings and their incursion into our world. Just like we saw in Shang-Chi, but from a Chinese perspective.

And again, it’s echoed by the villains.

 

[networkpro]

Tomorrow!

 

[Disney Analyst]

In the end, as is proven over and over, reviews do not mean much. There have been many a film with horrible reviews, and huge box offices and audience positive reviews. Plenty of movies with glowing reviews, and poor box office and audience reviews, etc etc.

But so far this film now has a clear majority positive reviews, so that’s good.

The box office will still stumble.

 

[Andrew C]

Yeah.. hopefully… there are no reviews yet…but early reactions are promising…I know great reactions don’t always add up to great reviews… but these seem better than your average social media reviews… with some calling it the best Hunger Games film… I also personally know a couple of people who saw it early and said it’s great… they said could see it being a word of mouth hit

At any rate with the smaller budget… I think it’s chances of at least breaking even worldwide are decent

I think it will be financial success...could be wrong of course.

 

[_caleb]

One of my favorite aspects of the MCU team-ups is that our heroes often find themselves fighting for the same thing but for different reasons (with different backgrounds, beliefs, motivations). The idea of finding common cause is really interesting to me (and seems particularly relevant today). I hope The Marvels at least plays with this, given the very different backgrounds and perspectives of the 3 main super heroes.

 

[MrPromey]

To be fair, “history lessons” are an integral part of Marvel characters and the Marvel universe. Captain America was formed by WWII, Magneto by the Holocaust, Punisher and Iron Man by Vietnam (in the MCU, the War on Terror stands in as IMs formative event), and so on. Ms Marvel’s use of the Partition is absolutely in line with the Marvel tradition.

I get what your saying.

Do you get what I'm saying?

WW2 Impacted Captain America because he was actually in it. The whole first movie in fact, was him in WW2.

Magneto was impacted by the holocaust because he was in it - it plays directly into his character's world view due to how he was treated during that formative period of his own life.

The Partition was not a formative event for this girl. The way they present it, she didn't even understand much about it until she was shown like we were.

This wasn't her past. You could say it was her "people's" past but then everyone one of us has a "people's" past, don't we?

 

[MrPromey]

For the analogy to work, it would be more like a 30 second video at the end of the queue, but whatev.

Considering this happened in the middle of the series and spanned multiple episodes, I'll respectfully disagree.

Did that happen?

Based on the pile-on I'm receiving, it sure feels like it.

View attachment 753435

All this time I've been reading your name as Tony the Tiger - SMH. (I wasted so much time trying to find just the right Tony the Tiger gif, too )

 

[Casper Gutman]

I get what your saying.

Do you get what I'm saying?

WW2 Impacted Captain America because he was actually in it. The whole first movie in fact, was him in WW2.

Magneto was impacted by the holocaust because he was in it - it plays directly into his character's world view due to how he was treated during that formative period of his own life.

The Partition was not a formative event for this girl. The way they present it, she didn't even understand much about it until she was shown like we were.

This wasn't her past. You could say it was her "people's" past but then everyone one of us has a "people's" past, don't we?

It was absolutely an element of generational trauma and the heritage that Ms Marvel is trying to come to terms with - the entire point of her story. It is part of HER story - that fact is part of the SHOW’S story. It’s also echoed throughout the narrative, a key thematic melody woven in and out - the villains, the hero’s powers, all of it is tied together with the historical elements. Despite the rushed back half, it’s quite skillful writing.

And things like the Holocaust aren’t just formative for Magneto, it’s absolutely foundational to the themes running through all of modern X-Men.

I’m not sure how folks are piling on - we’re debating opinions about a Disney product, the point of these boards. It’s all opinions.

 

[MrPromey]

As for more recent trauma, it was there, but you didn’t like the profiling element either.

Only in the ridiculously cartoonish lengths they went to in order to present it with law enforcement.

The good old, "can't trust the cops because they hate us for existing" thing and lets make that a real element in our made up story.

The idea of showing Muslim culture in a positive light was, in my opinion great. The idea of showing there being tension within that culture in a community and a weary eye toward law enforcement as a reflection of reality, noble.

The idea that the bad lady from Orange is the new Black apparently just hates everyone brown in this one for "reasons" and is ready to trample over all their civil rights because who's going to stop her(?) - not so much.

I find it lazy, annoying and a propagation of a stereotype that isn't helpful for anyone in the "real world" even if it makes some people feel justified in their own biases that people in authority must be out to get them to a degree that it is the focus of those people's own lives.

We have a certain trial going on right now where that's someone's entire argument - the government hates him - against a mountain of evidence - I'm over it.

Again, just something I didn't care for.