Captain Marvel 2: "The Marvels" -- Nov 10, 2023 Theatrical Release

[DKampy]

Where the HECK do you get the idea that my idea of diversity is eliminating white men? That’s madness. What you’re doing is seeing women or non-white actors in secondary or co-leading roles and labeling the cast ”diverse.” This is absurd on the face of it - you could, by that logic, go back through Hollywood’s output in the 30s and 40s and talk about how “diverse” the casts were. Things that - in, say, 2010 - would have seemed unremarkable, like a sitcom pastiche like WandaVision having one male and one female lead (there co-headliners, it’s in the name) or a villain like Wanda getting screen time in an action-adventure like MoM, are now seen as abnormal and “diverse” because a loud and powerful group of culture warriors are labeling them so.

When people look at a shaky film and blame the diversity of the cast - that’s bigotry. No one looks at the many awful films with white male leads and says, “white men are the problem.” The idea that Disney is “checking boxes” when it casts non-white men - that’s bigotry. It assumes pop culture in general and Marvel in particular is the rightful domain of white men, and when other groups are cast, that’s something extraordinary that has to be explained by unfair corporate mandates.

I’ll agree that some recent Marvel productions, particularly on D+, have been lackluster. That’s very legitimate criticism, just as criticism of Thor 2 or Hulk was legitimate. What ISN’T legitimate is that the culture warriors are trying to link this to the completely separate fact that, for a variety of reasons, the cast and crew of Marvel’s more recent productions has been somewhat more diverse.

I was thinking all of this as I was reading some of these disturbing comments…you put my thoughts into words perfectly

 

[Phroobar]

You don't think the Flerkin feeding hour....aka cat live stream, on the Marvel You Tube channel won't counteract that?

View attachment 752424

I mean, that's some compelling cinematography right there from one of the foremost movie studios in the world!

Got a link to that?
I have a Flerkin that likes to watch other Flerkin eat.

 

[ABQ]

Got a link to that?
I have a Flerkin that likes to watch other Flerkin eat.

 

[erasure fan1]

I’ll agree that some recent Marvel productions, particularly on D+, have been lackluster. That’s very legitimate criticism. What ISN’T legitimate is that the culture warriors are trying to link this to the completely separate fact that, for a variety of reasons, the cast and crew of Marvel’s more recent productions has been somewhat more diverse. It’s also vital to remember these same voices would be attacking Marvels output regardless of its quality because they hate Disney and resent ANY diversity.

I agree. But you keep labeling it as a fan base issue and it's not. And if you think the "culture warriors" would do the same no matter what because they hate Disney, why do you care so much? We all know those people are a small voice with a large platform. They don't represent the majority of the fan base of any of the franchises. If the movies or shows are good, the fans will support it. The lack of direction and quality with phase 4 tuned some fans off. It became a chore to support for a lot of people. So even if they "right the ship", it will take a bit to gain those fans back. They just need to focus on quality stories and characters over anything else. Diversity means nothing if the movie is a turd. Just look at wonder woman for DC. The first is considered the best of the dceu. The second is an absolute atrocity. It's not because people all of a sudden hate a female lead. It's because the movie is just absolutely terrible.

Where the HECK do you get the idea that my idea of diversity is eliminating white men? That’s madness. What you’re doing is seeing women or non-white actors in secondary or co-leading roles and labeling the cast ”diverse.”

Because, lets face it, the majority of the most popular characters are white males. They can't and won't eliminate them. But you keep saying I'm kidding myself that I see what they've done in Thor, Cap 2, Antman, Doctor strange... the right move. You can either give a better more established role in those films to diverse characters, and I think they have in my opinion. Or you don't make the film at all. The worst thing you can do is side line a hero in his own movie for the sake of diversity. Someone has to be considered the lead, but just because it's a Thor movie or a traditional white male lead, doesn't mean the film can't be diverse. That's where I think we don't see eye to eye. Captain America 2 is considered, by a huge portion of the fan base, as the best mcu film. Let's take a look at the main heroes. Cap, widow,Fury and falcon. Just because it's a Cap film doesn't mean it's not diverse. Let's say it was Black widow and the winter soldier. Guess what? Cap is still going to get top billing because he is just more popular. That's nothing against widow, myself and most fans consider her a beloved character. So if a film can't have diverse roles playing an integral part of the film and be considered diverse. The only other option is to not use those characters if you want diversity. And personally I think that's not right.

 

[Phroobar]

Thanks!

What would happen if a Fizgig met a Flerkin met a Loth-cat?

 

[TP2000]

One thing that may affect The Marvel’s opening weekend box office is Journey to Bethlehem is opening the same weekend, and is doing one of those “gift a ticket” promotions.

It would be an obviously desperate stretch for Marvel to do this with The Marvels, but...

I'm surprised Disney didn't try the gifted ticket thing with Wish.

A "Share The Wish This Holiday Season" campaign seemed like a no brainer to me.

 

[TalkingHead]

Phase 11 debuting in the year 2030 should clear up a lot of the current confusion, just wait and see.

 

[Phroobar]

It would be an obviously desperate stretch for Marvel to do this with The Marvels, but...

I'm surprised Disney didn't try the gifted ticket thing with Wish.

A "Share The Wish This Holiday Season" campaign seemed like a no brainer to me.

I have a feeling Journey to Bethlehem will do better than the Marvels. I wouldn't mind seeing it. Besides, it has Antonio Banderas as Herod granted he is no Alice Cooper but it should be fun.

 

[TP2000]

I have a feeling Journey to Bethlehem will do better than the Marvels. I wouldn't mind seeing it. Besides, it has Antonio Banderas as Herod granted he is no Alice Cooper but it should be fun.

I just Googled it after @EPCOT-O.G. mentioned it, and it looks rather fun. If it had been me, I would've waited for Thanksgiving weekend to release it, but what do I know?

 

[Disstevefan1]

It would be an obviously desperate stretch for Marvel to do this with The Marvels, but...

I'm surprised Disney didn't try the gifted ticket thing with Wish.

A "Share The Wish This Holiday Season" campaign seemed like a no brainer to me.

I don't understand why Disney doesn't do the the gifted ticket thing for all their movies. Even if the tickets end up in the trash, its still more tickets sold and that's what really counts.

 

[_caleb]

So I take it the cameo is some famous male superhero? And so 2023 logic is thus;

• If you don't see the film because the characters/plot don't interest you, you are bad.
• If you do see the film because there's a cameo unrelated to the main characters/plot, you are bad.

It seems to me it would be a better business strategy to just make movies the audience wants to see with characters and plots that naturally interest them enough to buy a ticket. But maybe that's too simple for Disney to do now?

This is how those of a certain ideological persuasion might interpret things. But another way to look at it would be:

• If you're vocally critical of a film you haven't seen, have second-hand knowledge of, and are deliberately misinterpreting, you shouldn't be taken seriously.
• If you do see a film in order to find evidence in support of your pre-conceived, bad-faith interpretation of it and then deliberately misrepresent it, you shouldn't be taken seriously.

If a film doesn't interest you (for any legitimate reason, like the characters, the story, the graphics, your disdain for a particular actor, your distaste for the specific font used in the film's promotional materials), nobody is going to have a problem with it.

 

[TP2000]

This is how those of a certain ideological persuasion might interpret things. But another way to look at it would be:

• If you're vocally critical of a film you haven't seen, have second-hand knowledge of, and are deliberately misinterpreting, you shouldn't be taken seriously.
• If you do see a film in order to find evidence in support of your pre-conceived, bad-faith interpretation of it and then deliberately misrepresent it, you shouldn't be taken seriously.

If a film doesn't interest you (for any legitimate reason, like the characters, the story, the graphics, your disdain for a particular actor, your distaste for the specific font used in the film's promotional materials), nobody is going to have a problem with it.

Seems awfully complicated when all studios really want to do is sell tickets to movies.

 

[_caleb]

Seems awfully complicated when all studios really want to do is sell tickets to movies.

Oh, I was talking about fan reactions to trolls. Were you under the impression Disney is trying to do anything other than sell movie tickets?

 

[erasure fan1]

If a film doesn't interest you (for any legitimate reason, like the characters, the story, the graphics, your disdain for a particular actor, your distaste for the specific font used in the film's promotional materials), nobody is going to have a problem with it.

I'm not sure that's true. There's been some bad faith arguments for sure. But at the same time, as an example, some of us who gave legit reasons for not liking the live action remakes were chastised for it. Even with shows like mrs marvel and she hulk, it all came down to you just hate females as the lead. When they make content specifically for certain demographics, they can't be surprised when other demographics don't connect with it.

 

[_caleb]

I'm not sure that's true. There's been some bad faith arguments for sure. But at the same time, as an example, some of us who gave legit reasons for not liking the live action remakes were chastised for it. Even with shows like mrs marvel and she hulk, it all came down to you just hate females as the lead. When they make content specifically for certain demographics, they can't be surprised when other demographics don't connect with it.

I know you’re not alone in feeling that way. But in discussing here, if your reasons for not liking a film cone across as suspiciously motivated by other fans, would you prefer they just smile and nod?

I completely agree with your second statement. Disney does indeed seem to be targeting certain segments of their audience. And I’m sure they know this means some of their content won’t connect with other segments. And while some of us aren’t happy that Disney isn’t catering to us (whoever us might be), it seems as though we might just need to get used to it.

To assume (as some seem to be doing) that Disney is doing all this in ignorance or out of some deep ideological/political agenda seems silly.

 

[Disney Irish]

I have a feeling Journey to Bethlehem will do better than the Marvels. I wouldn't mind seeing it. Besides, it has Antonio Banderas as Herod granted he is no Alice Cooper but it should be fun.

Sorry unless it has Josh Mostel as Herod I don't wanna see it....

 

[Tha Realest]

Sorry unless it has Josh Mostel as Herod I don't wanna see it....

Claude Rains was no slouch

 

[erasure fan1]

I know you’re not alone in feeling that way. But in discussing here, if your reasons for not liking a film cone across as suspiciously motivated by other fans, would you prefer they just smile and nod?

I guess I would say you make a counter point and if the argument is in bad faith, you move on. The problem is it often becomes, all opposition is you're just anti whatever.

And while some of us aren’t happy that Disney isn’t catering to us (whoever us might be), it seems as though we might just need to get used to it.

Personally I don't care if there's content that isn't really made for me. What gets me is when I'm told, not everything is made for you! And then if it doesn't succeed, it's your fault for not supporting it! It's like I said, if you target a certain demographic, it shouldn't be a surprise if other demographics take a pass.

 

[TP2000]

Were you under the impression Disney is trying to do anything other than sell movie tickets?

No. At least that is what I had always assumed a movie studio's main goal was; sell tickets to its movies.

As for The Marvels, they gave it a budget of $275 Million, so I'm just assuming they planned to sell a heckuva lot of movie tickets for it. It needs roughly $600 Million to break even, after the $50 Million gift card from the British taxpayers they got.

 

[_caleb]

No. At least that is what I had always assumed a movie studio's main goal was; sell tickets to its movies.

As for The Marvels, they gave it a budget of $275 Million, so I'm just assuming they planned to sell a heckuva lot of movie tickets for it. It needs roughly $600 Million to break even, after the $50 Million gift card from the British taxpayers they got.

I've always assumed country/state/city gave subsidies and tax breaks to movie productions because those productions bring in lots of money (local jobs, hotel rooms, food, supplies, tourism, etc.). Is that not the case?