Captain Marvel 2: "The Marvels" -- Nov 10, 2023 Theatrical Release

[Vegas Disney Fan]

I think the reason people might think MCU is “forcing” diversity is that for the first 10 years of the MCU, every movie had a straight white male as the lead. It took until Black Panther in 2018 to have a person of color as a lead and Captain Marvel in 2019 to have a female lead. But it was mostly a white/male dominated series. I don’t think the issue is that Marvel has become more diverse in recent years, it’s that it should have been more diverse from the get-go.

After Phase 3, there was a noticeable shift in trying to have more representation:

Wandavision — female lead
Falcon and the Winter Soldier — Black lead
Black Widow — female lead
Shang Chi — Chinese lead
Eternals — an ensemble, although I’d argue that Gemma Chan’s Sersi — a Chinese woman — is the lead. We have a Latina woman as the leader of the group, a deaf Afro-Latina woman, a gay Black Man, a Pakistani man, an Asian man, a white woman, a white girl and two white men on the team. One of the white men turns evil.
Moon Knight — Latino lead playing Jewish character
Ms. Marvel — Pakistani girl
She Hulk — woman lead
Black Panther: Wakanda Forever — Black women leads
The Marvels — white woman, Pakistani girl and Black woman lead.

Even the movies that supposedly were named after straight white men focused just as much on their leading ladies in a way the first three phases didn’t. Hawkeye was just as much about Kate Bishop — if not more so — than Clint Barton. Wanda and America Chavez were much more important to the plot of Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness than Doctor Strange, even though we saw everything happen from his perspective. Thor: Love and Thunder gave Jane Foster a more compelling arc than Thor himself. And Ant-man and the Wasp Quantumania is clearly trying to set up Cassie to be Scott Lang’s successor.

Personally, I think it’s great that Marvel has become more diverse. But I think you’d see a lot less complaints about Marvel “going woke” had they simply sprinkled in more diversity from the very beginning. If people of color and women were given more prominent roles in the early years of the MCU, Phases 4 and 5 wouldn’t have seemed so jarring to those expecting straight white men as the leads.

I think it’s all of this PLUS they killed off a lot of the fan favorites at the same time.

Disney has amassed a giant cast of characters, but they didn’t kill off the fab five in the process to make room for them. Not sure why Marvel couldn’t have taken a similar approach. Give us new and old.

 

[Indy_UK]

Well, I heard they are taking marketing money away from the Marvels and using it on Wish.

So the "lack of marketing" excuse is locked and loaded

I can’t remember what movie they took money from but they apparently did the same for Indiana Jones to push visibility.

That certainly didn’t help

 

[Indy_UK]

Personally I don’t think Marvels issues is anything to do with Diversity.

It’s too many projects that they are releasing too fast and mediocre quality that the majority have lost interest. It’s as simple as that.

 

[LSLS]

Personally I don’t think Marvels issues is anything to do with Diversity.

It’s too many projects that they are releasing too fast and mediocre quality that the majority have lost interest. It’s as simple as that.

It also hasn't felt like it's been building to anything. Movies like Captain Marvel and Black Panther (and even Ragnarok) got big boosts because it felt like you needed to see them to be ready for the big thing coming. Going this many movies/shows/characters without any sort of a big meetup seems like a large mistake to me.

 

[Indy_UK]

So, then the question is why has Marvel lost its way? Disney pushing for more content too quickly and they’re churning out mess or has Kevin Feige loosing his magic?

 

[lazyboy97o]

So, then the question is why has Marvel lost its way? Disney pushing for more content too quickly and they’re churning out mess or has Kevin Feige loosing his magic?

Marvel Studios’ string of success is completely unparalleled. It’s like asking a golfer who got a hole-in-one why they don’t just do that all the time.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Marvel Studios’ string of success is completely unparalleled. It’s like asking a golfer who got a hole-in-one why they don’t just do that all the time.

That's true, we cant expect TWDC to make money on every movie they release......... Wait.....

 

[ABQ]

So, then the question is why has Marvel lost its way? Disney pushing for more content too quickly and they’re churning out mess or has Kevin Feige loosing his magic?

Yes, you answered your own question. How many projects were they trying to work on at one time? Too many is the simple answer. So much of what came out from 2020 till now has looked unfinished, or cheap, in terms of effects, script, editing (because it has been both unfinished and cheap) With the budgets these projects had, it's crazy to think the effects in She-Hulk looked as bad as the Land of the Lost tv series.

 

[Hawkeye_2018]

You guys are way over thinking it. While the first film made money, it's not all that highly regarded. Ms Marvel series, while critically liked, was one of, if not not the least watched D+ series. Combine that with a generic villain nobody knows anything about, and a lack of how this connects to other current and upcoming MCU films, and you have a film that many are fine with waiting on the home release.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

What character was “swapped” other than Little Mermaid? Captain America isn’t a “swap,” it’s a legacy being passed from one well-established character to another, something that is absolutely inevitable in a film series telling one continuous story across decades and dozens of films.

Captain feels like a “swap” because the replaced actor is firmly in his prime…he’s not Michael Keaton.
Not only that…but you’re kinda “losing” parts of the falcon character with it…and that’s a great character.

Wakanda forever tried to swap…but they get an obvious pass there.

 

[TP2000]

I love the idea that “diversity” being a “requirement” is the height of evil. Hey, why can’t you meanies just leave us alone to exclude anyone who isn’t a straight white male?!?!

If your core audience is straight young males, in major markets (North America, Europe, etc.) that are majority white, perhaps those are the stories you should continue tell for that one studio?

I see no reason why some new superheros can't be Black or Asian or strong women, but all of them from here on out? That feels forced and fake and inherently cringey. Audiences aren't stupid, they can spot cringe immediately.

Next weekend we've got a movie made up of characters that are not white males. It will be interesting to see how the free market of 500 Million movie goers in North America and Western Europe respond to it.

 

[TP2000]

You guys are way over thinking it. While the first film made money, it's not all that highly regarded. Ms Marvel series, while critically liked, was one of, if not not the least watched D+ series. Combine that with a generic villain nobody knows anything about, and a lack of how this connects to other current and upcoming MCU films, and you have a film that many are fine with waiting on the home release.

I'm right there with you on that. Looking at the box office and Nielsen data on the characters behind this movie, it's a bit baffling that they went ahead and spent $275 Million to make this movie. Why? Very few of their fans seem to care about it.

 

[TP2000]

Yes, you answered your own question. How many projects were they trying to work on at one time? Too many is the simple answer. So much of what came out from 2020 till now has looked unfinished, or cheap, in terms of effects, script, editing (because it has been both unfinished and cheap) With the budgets these projects had, it's crazy to think the effects in She-Hulk looked as bad as the Land of the Lost tv series.

The Variety article posted yesterday had some interesting tales and insight into that. It sounds like a mess over there at Marvel.

And... thanks for that Land Of The Lost reference, because for the rest of the day I'll now be humming "Marshall, Will and Holly, on a routine expedition, faced the greatest earthquake man had ever knoooown..."

 

[TP2000]

Box Office projections just got updated a few minutes ago on Box Office Pro. The Marvels domestic box office projections have weakened further, but at least this time it was only a 2% drop after their 9% drop last week.

Long Range Box Office Forecast: RENAISSANCE: A FILM BY BEYONCÉ and SILENT NIGHT - Boxoffice

This week's report takes a preliminary glance at the first weekend of 2023's final month, currently scheduled to see two wide releases during the usual post-Thanksgiving lull.

www.boxofficepro.com

 

[Indy_UK]

Yes, you answered your own question. How many projects were they trying to work on at one time? Too many is the simple answer. So much of what came out from 2020 till now has looked unfinished, or cheap, in terms of effects, script, editing (because it has been both unfinished and cheap) With the budgets these projects had, it's crazy to think the effects in She-Hulk looked as bad as the Land of the Lost tv series.

I read today in fact that the Obi-Wan series costs $90 million to produce and She-Hulk cost $225 million.

 

[Indy_UK]

Next weekend we've got a movie made up of characters that are not white males. It will be interesting to see how the free market of 500 Million movie goers in North America and Western Europe respond to it.

Im sure Disney think it will be the same females that went and saw Barbie will go and see The Marvels because its strong female leads. Isn't going to happen....

 

[TP2000]

Im sure Disney think it will be the same females that went and saw Barbie will go and see The Marvels because its strong female leads. Isn't going to happen....

I imagine somewhere in a swanky Burbank conference room, that was an executive sales pitch at one time.

So if The Marvels flops at the box office and loses money for Marvel, we can blame young women for not supporting inclusive stories of female empowerment.

 

[Phroobar]

Im sure Disney think it will be the same females that went and saw Barbie will go and see The Marvels because its strong female leads. Isn't going to happen....

Barbie was presented at stupid fun. This one has two lead characters no one knows outside of their D+ shows redoing Freaky Friday. It is probably a good thing the actors when on strike. Otherwise Brie Larson will be destroying fan good will just like the Snow White girl was doing before being shut up by the strike.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Im sure Disney think it will be the same females that went and saw Barbie will go and see The Marvels because its strong female leads. Isn't going to happen....

Why do you lap up things that are blatantly not true. Did you not go see any Marvel films in theaters before the lead up to Endgame?

 

[Indy_UK]

Why do you lap up things that are blatantly not true. Did you not go see any Marvel films in theaters before the lead up to Endgame?

I am talking in tongue in cheek. It’s just the excuses the Disney comes out with these days as to why something doesn’t do well makes me laugh. Like WDW attendance being ‘soft’ on July 4th and Iger was saying it was because ‘it was hot’

Also, I went and saw all the marvel films leading up to Endgame (except Thor 2) and enjoyed most of them. Like another poster said, where these post endgames films don’t feel like they are building to anything, interest isn’t there like it used to be