Captain Marvel 2: "The Marvels" -- Nov 10, 2023 Theatrical Release

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I knew that pot would show up eventually and lecture us all.

I’m happy for you giving your definitive answer. I’ve given my response. Thanks.

I’m not lecturing “us”…it’s you.

And you can’t even attempt to address what was written?
Nope.

Have fun at the comic book store and Disney section at target (little mermaid junk on clearance) , man

 

[Phroobar]

I took the dog for a walk last night for Halloween to check out the haunted houses and costumes. People kept giving the dog candy. It was a blast.

Anyway, using TP's metric, I saw quite a few princesses, witches and Barbies including one super hot adult Wonder Woman. For the boys, it was Spiderman, Batman, Dracula, Michael Myers, Ninjas, zombies, Mario and scary clowns. There were a lot of clowns like Pennywise from IT. Best family one was crew of the Ghost from Star Wars Rebels/Ashoka. Daughters where Ashoka and Sabine. Mom was Hera and dad was Thrawn. I wish I got a picture. There were no blue skinned Avatar people but I did see an adult Harley Quinn from Batman.

There was no Little Mermaid, Indiana Jones, Elemental people, Antman, any of the Marvels, Loki, and defiantly no one from the Haunted Mansion.

 

[Disney Irish]

I’m not lecturing “us”…it’s you.

And you can’t even attempt to address what was written?
Nope.

Have fun at the comic book store and Disney section at disney (little mermaid junk on clearance) , man

Thanks for the lecture. And I haven't visited a comic book store in about 45 years, but thanks.

As for the movie being discussed, I hope you enjoy it.

 

[Phroobar]

Thanks for the lecture. And I haven't visited a comic book store in about 45 years, but thanks.

That is why comic book stores are almost entirely gone and the print media part of Marvel is in serious trouble.

 

[Disney Irish]

That is why comic book stores are almost entirely gone and the print media part of Marvel is in serious trouble.

So I'm the reason? Me not showing up for 40+ years is the reason why comic book stores are gone? Sorry I thought it was digital media was the reason. I didn't realize I was suppose to be the one holding up the whole industry.

I'll go out right now and start visiting every store across the world.... Gonna cost lots of plane tickets, hope you're going to help subsidize the costs.

 

[DKampy]

There was no Little Mermaid, Indiana Jones, Elemental people, Antman, any of the Marvels, Loki, and defiantly no one from the Haunted Mansion.

It shows what a difference a neighborhood can make.. I saw no Mario’s or Barbies… I did see a few Video Game costumes from Fortnight and Halo… a few Grim Reepers, a Cookie Monster, some generic costumes and a few of your classic monster…there was 3 lazy Teenage girls that just threw on their Taylor Swift tour shirts and said they were Swifities.. some Superhero… Spider-Man, Batman, and Ironman, but as I said the most popular costume seemed to be Black Panther which surprised me

I did see one Indiana Jones it was actually kind of cool… Indiana was the father and his kid was Short Round… kept yelling Dr. Jones

 

[networkpro]

9 more days!

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

That is why comic book stores are almost entirely gone and the print media part of Marvel is in serious trouble.

It’s ironic you mention comic book stores closing because the decline of the MCU mirrors the decline of Marvel Comics.

“While Marvel Studios makes bank at the box office, Marvel comics are in a slump.” According to David Gabriel, Marvel‘s VP of Sales, “diversity” is to blame.

“What we heard was that people didn’t want any more diversity,” he said at Marvel’s retailer summit last week. “They didn’t want female characters out there.”

“I don’t know that that’s really true, but that’s what we saw in sales. We saw the sales of any character that was diverse, any character that was new, our female characters, anything that was not a core Marvel character, people were turning their nose up against.”

That was in 2017 but Disney plowed ahead and made movies that followed the same path as the comics, and now are seeing the same results.

My favorite part of the article was the top response was “I don't mind black or female characters. But if you're going to do it, come up with something new. Replacing an old character with a new one and going out of your way to say "hey, so Iron Man is black and a girl now" doesn't work, it alienates the existing fans. And not because the new character is black and a girl, but simply because the character they love is Tony Stark. Iron Man is more than a suit of high tech armour.”

Sounds shockingly similar to what people say about the movies today. Disney doesn’t learn, they make what they want, not what the audience wants.

 

[Phroobar]

It’s ironic you mention comic book stores closing because the decline of the MCU mirrors the decline of Marvel Comics.

“While Marvel Studios makes bank at the box office, Marvel comics are in a slump.” According to David Gabriel, Marvel‘s VP of Sales, “diversity” is to blame.

“What we heard was that people didn’t want any more diversity,” he said at Marvel’s retailer summit last week. “They didn’t want female characters out there.”

“I don’t know that that’s really true, but that’s what we saw in sales. We saw the sales of any character that was diverse, any character that was new, our female characters, anything that was not a core Marvel character, people were turning their nose up against.”

That was in 2017 but Disney plowed ahead and made movies that followed the same path as the comics, and now are seeing the same results.

My favorite part of the article was the top response was “I don't mind black or female characters. But if you're going to do it, come up with something new. Replacing an old character with a new one and going out of your way to say "hey, so Iron Man is black and a girl now" doesn't work, it alienates the existing fans. And not because the new character is black and a girl, but simply because the character they love is Tony Stark. Iron Man is more than a suit of high tech armour.”

Sounds shockingly similar to what people say about the movies today. Disney doesn’t learn, they make what they want, not what the audience wants.

I think I read that article. I know when I head into a comic shop, I look for older issues or an omnibus. I never buy some change up issue. I want what remember reading as a kid.

Remember when they were killing off Batman and Superman just to introduce new versions of them?

 

[TP2000]

Interesting read in Variety today on Marvel's current problems, including the growing realization that The Marvels will likely underwhelm at the box office...

"...says Wall Street analyst Eric Handler, who covers Disney. “The more you do, the tougher it is to maintain quality. They tried experimenting with breaking in some new characters, like Shang-Chi and Eternals, with mixed results. With budgets as big as these, you need home runs.”

“The Marvels,” which opens in theaters on Nov. 10, will struggle to get the ball past the infield, at least by Marvel’s outsized standards. The movie, which cost $250 million and sees Brie Larson reprising her role as Captain Marvel, is tracking to open to $75 million-$80 million — far below the $185 million “Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness” took in domestically in its debut weekend last year."

Crisis at Marvel: Jonathan Majors Back-Up Plans, ‘The Marvels’ Reshoots, Reviving Original Avengers and More Issues Revealed

Marvel has enjoyed a nearly uninterrupted string of hits ever since it started independently producing its movies with 2008’s “Iron Man.”

variety.com

 

[Tha Realest]

Interesting read in Variety today on Marvel's current problems, including the growing realization that The Marvels will likely underwhelm at the box office...

"...says Wall Street analyst Eric Handler, who covers Disney. “The more you do, the tougher it is to maintain quality. They tried experimenting with breaking in some new characters, like Shang-Chi and Eternals, with mixed results. With budgets as big as these, you need home runs.”

“The Marvels,” which opens in theaters on Nov. 10, will struggle to get the ball past the infield, at least by Marvel’s outsized standards. The movie, which cost $250 million and sees Brie Larson reprising her role as Captain Marvel, is tracking to open to $75 million-$80 million — far below the $185 million “Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness” took in domestically in its debut weekend last year."

Crisis at Marvel: Jonathan Majors Back-Up Plans, ‘The Marvels’ Reshoots, Reviving Original Avengers and More Issues Revealed

Marvel has enjoyed a nearly uninterrupted string of hits ever since it started independently producing its movies with 2008’s “Iron Man.”

variety.com

Immediately preceding that section they explicitly blamed the increased production dictates as diminishing the results.

So, the failures financially and artistically of Marvel and D+ are intertwined. They’ve drastically diminished the Marvel brand I. The hopes that maybe, possibly, D+ will turn a profit next year (after losing the company billions).

 

[Casper Gutman]

It’s ironic you mention comic book stores closing because the decline of the MCU mirrors the decline of Marvel Comics.

“While Marvel Studios makes bank at the box office, Marvel comics are in a slump.” According to David Gabriel, Marvel‘s VP of Sales, “diversity” is to blame.

“What we heard was that people didn’t want any more diversity,” he said at Marvel’s retailer summit last week. “They didn’t want female characters out there.”

“I don’t know that that’s really true, but that’s what we saw in sales. We saw the sales of any character that was diverse, any character that was new, our female characters, anything that was not a core Marvel character, people were turning their nose up against.”

That was in 2017 but Disney plowed ahead and made movies that followed the same path as the comics, and now are seeing the same results.

My favorite part of the article was the top response was “I don't mind black or female characters. But if you're going to do it, come up with something new. Replacing an old character with a new one and going out of your way to say "hey, so Iron Man is black and a girl now" doesn't work, it alienates the existing fans. And not because the new character is black and a girl, but simply because the character they love is Tony Stark. Iron Man is more than a suit of high tech armour.”

Sounds shockingly similar to what people say about the movies today. Disney doesn’t learn, they make what they want, not what the audience wants.

Of course it sounds similar to what you hear about the MCU, it’s the exact same culture war garbage infecting every aspect of society. It’s all linked.

And to be clear, Steve Rogers and Tony Stark and all the rest are still around in the comics, still star in thier own books. They might “die” for a few months or a year but they always come back, just as has been happening to every superhero character for decades, even the biggest like Batman or Superman. It happens to the “new” heroes like Ms Marvel as well. No one is “replaced.” Now, over in DC, which focuses more on “legacy” heroes, you will see some longer-term replacements, but that’s been fundamental to that universe for many decades - and doesn’t tend to happen in Marvel.

But it’s good that we’re being honest that the problem is “diversity,” I suppose.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Of course it sounds similar to what you hear about the MCU, it’s the exact same culture war garbage infecting every aspect of society. It’s all linked.

And to be clear, Steve Rogers and Tony Stark and all the rest are still around in the comics, still star in thier own books. They might “die” for a few months or a year but they always come back, just as has been happening to every superhero character for decades, even the biggest like Batman or Superman. It happens to the “new” heroes like Ms Marvel as well. No one is “replaced.” Now, over in DC, which focuses more on “legacy” heroes, you will see some longer-term replacements, but that’s been fundamental to that universe for many decades - and doesn’t tend to happen in Marvel.

But it’s good that we’re being honest that the problem is “diversity,” I suppose.

Well…it is what it is…don’t shoot the messenger on this

“Diversity” is always gonna be a tricky topic…not because it’s not warranted/needed…because it promotes tribalism.

The pacing is off…a lot of what we see now with Disney correlates.

It reminds me of the pushback of the LGB movement when I was a young pup…
Which has made worlds of progress but is still not there…in many ways the most progress was made when they intentionally slowed their message down…stayed the course.

 

[Ghost93]

I think the reason people might think MCU is “forcing” diversity is that for the first 10 years of the MCU, every movie had a straight white male as the lead. It took until Black Panther in 2018 to have a person of color as a lead and Captain Marvel in 2019 to have a female lead. But it was mostly a white/male dominated series. I don’t think the issue is that Marvel has become more diverse in recent years, it’s that it should have been more diverse from the get-go.

After Phase 3, there was a noticeable shift in trying to have more representation:

Wandavision — female lead
Falcon and the Winter Soldier — Black lead
Black Widow — female lead
Shang Chi — Chinese lead
Eternals — an ensemble, although I’d argue that Gemma Chan’s Sersi — a Chinese woman — is the lead. We have a Latina woman as the leader of the group, a deaf Afro-Latina woman, a gay Black Man, a Pakistani man, an Asian man, a white woman, a white girl and two white men on the team. One of the white men turns evil.
Moon Knight — Latino lead playing Jewish character
Ms. Marvel — Pakistani girl
She Hulk — woman lead
Black Panther: Wakanda Forever — Black women leads
The Marvels — white woman, Pakistani girl and Black woman lead.

Even the movies that supposedly were named after straight white men focused just as much on their leading ladies in a way the first three phases didn’t. Hawkeye was just as much about Kate Bishop — if not more so — than Clint Barton. Wanda and America Chavez were much more important to the plot of Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness than Doctor Strange, even though we saw everything happen from his perspective. Thor: Love and Thunder gave Jane Foster a more compelling arc than Thor himself. And Ant-man and the Wasp Quantumania is clearly trying to set up Cassie to be Scott Lang’s successor.

Personally, I think it’s great that Marvel has become more diverse. But I think you’d see a lot less complaints about Marvel “going woke” had they simply sprinkled in more diversity from the very beginning. If people of color and women were given more prominent roles in the early years of the MCU, Phases 4 and 5 wouldn’t have seemed so jarring to those expecting straight white men as the leads.

 

[Casper Gutman]

I think the reason people might think MCU is “forcing” diversity is that for the first 10 years of the MCU, every movie had a straight white male as the lead. It took until Black Panther in 2018 to have a person of color as a lead and Captain Marvel in 2019 to have a female lead. But it was mostly a white/male dominated series. I don’t think the issue is that Marvel has become more diverse in recent years, it’s that it should have been more diverse from the get-go.

After Phase 3, there was a noticeable shift in trying to have more representation:

Wandavision — female lead
Falcon and the Winter Soldier — Black lead
Black Widow — female lead
Shang Chi — Chinese lead
Eternals — an ensemble, although I’d argue that Gemma Chan’s Sersi — a Chinese woman — is the lead. We have a Latina woman as the leader of the group, a deaf Afro-Latina woman, a gay Black Man, a Pakistani man, an Asian man, a white woman, a white girl and two white men on the team. One of the white men turns evil.
Moon Knight — Latino lead playing Jewish character
Ms. Marvel — Pakistani girl
She Hulk — woman lead
Black Panther: Wakanda Forever — Black women leads
The Marvels — white woman, Pakistani girl and Black woman lead.

Even the movies that supposedly were named after straight white men focused just as much on their leading ladies in a way the first three phases didn’t. Hawkeye was just as much about Kate Bishop — if not more so — than Clint Barton. Wanda and America Chavez were much more important to the plot of Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness than Doctor Strange, even though we saw everything happen from his perspective. Thor: Love and Thunder gave Jane Foster a more compelling arc than Thor himself. And Ant-man and the Wasp Quantumania is clearly trying to set up Cassie to be Scott Lang’s successor.

Personally, I think it’s great that Marvel has become more diverse. But I think you’d see a lot less complaints about Marvel “going woke” had they simply sprinkled in more diversity from the very beginning. If people of color and women were given more prominent roles in the early years of the MCU, Phases 4 and 5 wouldn’t have seemed so jarring to those expecting straight white men as the leads.

To be fair, that is very much following the history of the comics. Lee and Kirby were liberal dudes, but they were pre-war liberal dudes (Ditko was… something else). A lot of the diverse heroes were not replacements for the previous generation but WERE directly inspired by them, so it would have been tricky to introduce them earlier. Also, Marvel was playing it very safe - the early MCU films were enormous gambles. Had they underperformed, Marvel in its entirety would have disappeared. So, for better or worse, they waited until the brand was very firmly established before moving into the more diverse, newer heroes.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think the reason people might think MCU is “forcing” diversity is that for the first 10 years of the MCU, every movie had a straight white male as the lead. It took until Black Panther in 2018 to have a person of color as a lead and Captain Marvel in 2019 to have a female lead. But it was mostly a white/male dominated series. I don’t think the issue is that Marvel has become more diverse in recent years, it’s that it should have been more diverse from the get-go.

After Phase 3, there was a noticeable shift in trying to have more representation:

Wandavision — female lead
Falcon and the Winter Soldier — Black lead
Black Widow — female lead
Shang Chi — Chinese lead
Eternals — an ensemble, although I’d argue that Gemma Chan’s Sersi — a Chinese woman — is the lead. We have a Latina woman as the leader of the group, a deaf Afro-Latina woman, a gay Black Man, a Pakistani man, an Asian man, a white woman, a white girl and two white men on the team. One of the white men turns evil.
Moon Knight — Latino lead playing Jewish character
Ms. Marvel — Pakistani girl
She Hulk — woman lead
Black Panther: Wakanda Forever — Black women leads
The Marvels — white woman, Pakistani girl and Black woman lead.

Even the movies that supposedly were named after straight white men focused just as much on their leading ladies in a way the first three phases didn’t. Hawkeye was just as much about Kate Bishop — if not more so — than Clint Barton. Wanda and America Chavez were much more important to the plot of Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness than Doctor Strange, even though we saw everything happen from his perspective. Thor: Love and Thunder gave Jane Foster a more compelling arc than Thor himself. And Ant-man and the Wasp Quantumania is clearly trying to set up Cassie to be Scott Lang’s successor.

Personally, I think it’s great that Marvel has become more diverse. But I think you’d see a lot less complaints about Marvel “going woke” had they simply sprinkled in more diversity from the very beginning. If people of color and women were given more prominent roles in the early years of the MCU, Phases 4 and 5 wouldn’t have seemed so jarring to those expecting straight white men as the leads.

Two things:

You can do all that and not get rid of your backbone characters

And the problem is the bottomline…which is where they’re suffering.

Results based industry

 

[Disstevefan1]

I think the reason people might think MCU is “forcing” diversity is that for the first 10 years of the MCU, every movie had a straight white male as the lead. It took until Black Panther in 2018 to have a person of color as a lead and Captain Marvel in 2019 to have a female lead. But it was mostly a white/male dominated series. I don’t think the issue is that Marvel has become more diverse in recent years, it’s that it should have been more diverse from the get-go.

After Phase 3, there was a noticeable shift in trying to have more representation:

Wandavision — female lead
Falcon and the Winter Soldier — Black lead
Black Widow — female lead
Shang Chi — Chinese lead
Eternals — an ensemble, although I’d argue that Gemma Chan’s Sersi — a Chinese woman — is the lead. We have a Latina woman as the leader of the group, a deaf Afro-Latina woman, a gay Black Man, a Pakistani man, an Asian man, a white woman, a white girl and two white men on the team. One of the white men turns evil.
Moon Knight — Latino lead playing Jewish character
Ms. Marvel — Pakistani girl
She Hulk — woman lead
Black Panther: Wakanda Forever — Black women leads
The Marvels — white woman, Pakistani girl and Black woman lead.

Even the movies that supposedly were named after straight white men focused just as much on their leading ladies in a way the first three phases didn’t. Hawkeye was just as much about Kate Bishop — if not more so — than Clint Barton. Wanda and America Chavez were much more important to the plot of Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness than Doctor Strange, even though we saw everything happen from his perspective. Thor: Love and Thunder gave Jane Foster a more compelling arc than Thor himself. And Ant-man and the Wasp Quantumania is clearly trying to set up Cassie to be Scott Lang’s successor.

Personally, I think it’s great that Marvel has become more diverse. But I think you’d see a lot less complaints about Marvel “going woke” had they simply sprinkled in more diversity from the very beginning. If people of color and women were given more prominent roles in the early years of the MCU, Phases 4 and 5 wouldn’t have seemed so jarring to those expecting straight white men as the leads.

To be fair to TWDC diversity is a REQUIREMENT and MUST be done. This was not a matter of choice and within the company they are happy and its really mission accomplished. And it will continue. The money CANT matter and it doesn't to TWDC.

Just my opinion, but the best way to do it is to MAKE NEW STORIES like Wish which will be a blockbuster hit.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

To be fair to TWDC diversity is a REQUIREMENT and MUST be done. This was not a matter of choice and within the company they are happy and its really mission accomplished. And it will continue. The money CANT matter and it doesn't to TWDC.

Just my opinion, but the best way to do it is to MAKE NEW STORIES like Wish which will be a blockbuster hit.

They have to do it and make more money…it’s not an either/or at this point

 

[Disstevefan1]

They have to do it and make more money…it’s not an either/or at this point

From the outside, it honestly looks like they don't care about making money on the moves. It would be a great side effect, but diversity is the main goal.

And again, I think NEW STORIES like Wish, will work.

 

[Phroobar]

They have to do it and make more money…it’s not an either/or at this point

How did that all work out for them?
Aiming most of your content at small percentages of the population that may not even want your content in the first place while ignoring the core audience is not good business.