AdventureHasAName
Well-Known Member
I don't think it is what he intended to say (well, not entirely), but it could absolutely be interpreted by reasonable people to mean that (and it will be by a lot of people).
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Captain America 4
- Thread starter NateD1226
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Chi84
Premium Member
To mean what? What do you think reasonable people can interpret it to mean?
AdventureHasAName
Well-Known Member
I think reasonable people can interpret Mackie's comments to mean that he doesn't want Captain America (the character that he plays) to be associated with America (the actual country) because he thinks America (the country) is not something that should be aspired to (ie, that it's bad).
networkpro
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- Yes
IMHO Captain Personal Morality would fit better...personal aspirations over a societical ideal. Steve Rodgers couldn't keep up the personal sacrifice forever, he took an out for his happy ending.
Stripes
Premium Member
Captain America is a symbol of America and I think he represents the same ideals that Americans aspire to.
However, in the movies and the comics, the character stands up for those ideals and his convictions when the country of his namesake diverges from her ideals. Therefore, Mackie is quite correct when he says the Captain America character doesn’t represent America. Rather, he represents America’s ideals. He is unwavering even when the country falters.
He’s Captain America, not America’s Captain. There’s a big difference there.
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Chi84
Premium Member
Do you think there might be another reasonable interpretation of this statement?
If a statement is unclear, how do you decide what it means? What’s the first thing you ask someone if they say something that can be interpreted in 2 different ways?
AdventureHasAName
Well-Known Member
Yes. But of course, what I think (or don't think) is completely irrelevant to whether or not people purchase tickets to watch this film in two weeks.
Wendy Pleakley
Well-Known Member
Here's a summary of how the character has held onto the same ideals while standing up to those who falter from them.
Captain America: Changing Conscience of a Nation | Origins
In March 1941, the United States remained neutral while World War II raged in Europe and Asia, but the country was inching toward war. Newspapers announced policies to support the Allies like the Lend-Lease Act, even as isolationist sentiment earned space in opinion pages.
From his origins in World War II, Captain America waded into national debates with sometimes blunt force. Since the 1960s, his stories have reflected complex ideas about patriotism, recognizing national flaws while clinging stubbornly to an inherent, even exceptional belief in the United States.
Anthony Mackie Clarifies Captain America Comment Amid Backlash: “I’m A Proud American”
Captain America: Brave New World star Anthony Mackie caught backlash for a comment he made about the Marvel superhero while promoting the film in Italy.
deadline.com
Stripes
Premium Member
I have voluntarily deleted my posts.
If anyone would like to continue the (bizarre) political aspect of the conversation, feel free to DM me.
I was debating whether to see the movie in theaters or not. Now that I know that Mackie truly understands Captain America on a deeper level than most, I will definitely be going to see the film.
I will also say, people should look up Anthony Mackie’s prior comments, particularly those concerning race, before arriving at the unjustified and erroneous conclusion that his comments indicated a so-called victim mentality.
If anyone would like to continue the (bizarre) political aspect of the conversation, feel free to DM me.
I was debating whether to see the movie in theaters or not. Now that I know that Mackie truly understands Captain America on a deeper level than most, I will definitely be going to see the film.
I will also say, people should look up Anthony Mackie’s prior comments, particularly those concerning race, before arriving at the unjustified and erroneous conclusion that his comments indicated a so-called victim mentality.
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easyrowrdw
Well-Known Member
That's kind of how I've thought of the character. I think some of the descriptions others have provided on this board are also good. But they're also not what Mackie said (even in his follow-up). Personally, I don't agree with the idea that "America" isn't one of the things Captain America represents.Here's a summary of how the character has held onto the same ideals while standing up to those who falter from them.
Captain America: Changing Conscience of a Nation | Origins
In March 1941, the United States remained neutral while World War II raged in Europe and Asia, but the country was inching toward war. Newspapers announced policies to support the Allies like the Lend-Lease Act, even as isolationist sentiment earned space in opinion pages.origins.osu.edu
From his origins in World War II, Captain America waded into national debates with sometimes blunt force. Since the 1960s, his stories have reflected complex ideas about patriotism, recognizing national flaws while clinging stubbornly to an inherent, even exceptional belief in the United States.
Stripes
Premium Member
Here’s some information from ChatGPT.
Captain America has always represented American ideals—justice, freedom, and equality—but he has often found himself at odds with the government, the public, or the nation’s prevailing attitudes. Here are some key examples from the comics where Steve Rogers opposed the will of the American people or the government:
1. “Captain America No More” (1987-1989, Captain America #332-350)
• When the U.S. government orders Steve Rogers to become a government operative under stricter oversight, he refuses, believing that Captain America should serve the ideals of the country, not the politicians in power.
• He gives up the shield and identity, leading to the rise of John Walker as the new Captain America (who is much more in line with the government’s harsher stance).
2. “The Secret Empire” (1974, Captain America #169-176)
• Steve Rogers uncovers a government conspiracy tied to a secret organization, which turns out to have connections to the highest levels of U.S. leadership.
• When he realizes that the President (implied to be Richard Nixon) is involved, he is disillusioned and briefly quits being Captain America, taking on the identity of “Nomad” to distance himself from a corrupt system.
3. “Civil War” (2006-2007, Civil War #1-7)
• Captain America refuses to support the Superhuman Registration Act, which requires heroes to reveal their identities and work under government oversight.
• The public largely supports the Act, believing it will make them safer, but Cap sees it as a violation of personal freedom and fights against Iron Man and the pro-registration side.
• His opposition makes him a fugitive, and he ultimately surrenders—not because he thinks he was wrong, but because he realizes the people no longer support him.
4. “Madbomb” (1976, Captain America #193-200)
• A wealthy group called the “Elite” uses a device called the Madbomb to turn average Americans into violent mobs, preying on their anger and frustrations.
• Cap fights against this manipulation, even though many ordinary people are caught up in the frenzy and essentially become his enemies.
5. “Truth: Red, White & Black” (2003)
• This limited series reveals that the U.S. government experimented on Black soldiers to perfect the super-soldier serum before Steve Rogers, echoing real-life historical events like the Tuskegee Syphilis Study.
• Steve is horrified when he learns about this hidden history and openly condemns the government for its actions.
6. “The Ultimates” (2002-2004, Ultimates #1-13)
• In the Ultimate Universe, Cap is more militaristic, but he still opposes decisions made by his own country, such as questioning America’s involvement in foreign conflicts.
• In one instance, he fights against U.S. forces when they align with corrupt leadership.
7. “Secret Empire” (2017, Secret Empire #0-10)
• This controversial storyline sees Cap brainwashed into leading Hydra, essentially betraying America.
• However, the “real” Steve Rogers (his true self, hidden away) fights against this corrupted version of himself, symbolizing a resistance against fascist ideologies.
8. “Man Without a Country” (1995-1996, Captain America #450-454)
• The U.S. government falsely accuses Steve of treason, stripping him of his citizenship and forcing him to go on the run.
• He continues to fight for justice despite being abandoned by the country he once served.
9. “Fear Itself” (2011, Fear Itself #1-7)
• When fear spreads across the world, many Americans lose hope and give in to terror.
• Cap stands firm, refusing to bow to mass hysteria, even as the people he fights for begin to doubt him.
10. “Captain America: Winter Soldier” (2005, Captain America #1-14)
• When he discovers that Bucky Barnes was brainwashed by the Soviets, Steve refuses to let the U.S. government or S.H.I.E.L.D. treat Bucky as an enemy.
• Many in power believe Bucky should be eliminated, but Steve insists on saving him and giving him a second chance.
In all these stories, Captain America serves as a symbol of moral conviction rather than blind patriotism. He stands for the ideal of America, even when the nation or its people stray from those values.
Agent H
Well-Known Member
Disney Irish
Premium Member
Yep, I agree.
I put this in the box office thread -
"Forbes just wrote a great piece on this, and even shows how what Mackie said mirrors the same thing that Evans said about the character back in 2011 -
Anthony Mackie’s Controversial Captain America Quote Mirrors Chris Evans, The Comics
Ahead of the release of Captain America: Brave New World, star Anthony Mackie went viral with his take on what Captain America represents. But he's not wrong.
www.forbes.com
This shows that this is just the next drummed up thing that people want to get mad over. So if Mackie can't reiterate what was already said about the character by the previous actor, then again no amount of PR training or rewording is going to help. Also based on this and his response to the outrage, he already has had plenty of PR training. And has handled it with grace and professionalism."
Chi84
Premium Member
What Did Anthony Mackie Say About America? — New York Magazine
Anthony Mackie is having to define “America” at an especially weird, bad time to do that.
apple.news
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Slight differences in how both of those years were commented on. Check the box office thread
easyrowrdw
Well-Known Member
Those are interesting. I haven't read those comics, but they seem pretty consistent with my perception of the character. Thanks for sharing them. As I said before, I think a lot of what I've read here about the character are great descriptions. But none of those descriptions are what Mackie actually said.
Disstevefan1
Well-Known Member
This is all he needed to say.
I still don’t think his comments will move the needle in either direction, folks who want to see the movie will still go see it and folks who don’t want to see it won’t.
What will move the needle will be if the movie is a good movie. If it’s a good movie word will spread quickly and folks will show up.
Tickets are too expensive these days. Folks just want to see a good movie for their money.
I think the costs to make this movie was low enough that it should, at a minimum, break even at the box office. If it’s a good movie, it could be a blockbuster.
Let’s see what happens
