Cameron has given the OK ...

[GoofGoof]

Theyll use Disney magic and Pixie Dust, yea of little faith.

That would be a true Potter Swatter

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

"Those who choose to be skeptical" -- that's rich.

Don't try to rewrite history here.

It was way more than "choosing to be skeptical"...it was delighting in being negative and enjoying complaining just for the sake of complaining.

What a giant waste of energy considering what a terrific addition to the parks FLE was.

You can continue "choosing to be skeptical" if you want but it's a sad way to go through life. That's not even complaining the glass is half empty instead of half full...it's not even drinking the water because you are convinced there's dust in it and that Universal or someone else would have much better water to drink.

Just so were clear, the list of demands in your signature line, are they complaints?

 

[flynnibus]

This a really good point. I guess screens and projections bridge the gap between the traditional omnimover type ride and a full on coaster. Both detail and thrill can be achieved with good design, such as ToT, but to fully achieve that true "flying" through the air feeling, a "Soarin" derivative would be the easiest, if not "cheapest"'way to go.

More of.. the classic 'give me AAs!!' answer doesn't always fit the need. If I need to show highly fluid, fast moving, jumping/running characters... the Auctioneer AA doesn't cut the mustard. I'll take Genie as an animated projection on a hidden screen as part of a physical set over an old lumbering articulated figure that looks stiff and doesn't convey the character at all.

Instead of hating on a technology - people should consider how it's used and if it's the best way to achieve the desired result. Physical effects still rule the roost IMO - but not everything is best achieved with that. Some things just can't be done physically and maintain the realism the guest expects - for those simulation is well suited.

For instance, I think projection in the magic mirror in NFE is an excellent use of projection - while the projection alcoves in the mexico pavilion and if you had wings are poor IMO. While the AAs in Star Tours are fantastic - they are also supposed to be stiff robots

 

[Ignohippo]

I'm going to chime in again, if for no other reason than to clear up a few of the misnomers and misconceptions being batted around. Lee and others have done a nice job giving yes and no answers to specific details, but since these drawings have obviously saturated the web already, there are hundreds or thousands of people interpreting them improperly.

I'm not boasting, but since I draft, design and build commercial buildings for a living, I feel like topics like this are my one and only time to shine and call myself an "expert". I am by no means an insider. I just know exactly what I'm looking at when I see collections of documents like the ones people are seeing today.

Speaking of these drawings, the few sheets being posted on the web seem to have been acquired from sources completely separate from the venue through which my copy was delivered. Also, many of those out on the web have been photoshopped, had watermarks whited out, and are very low resolution.

The version I have on my computer is full-sized, original PDF files. The Architectural Plans are 48" wide by 36" tall blueprints - and I just printed a full size copy on our office plotter today. Those little color-coded plans are from an 8.5x11 document that the mechanical engineer produced, showing how many air conditioning units would be needed for the project. Those colored areas are actually HVAC zones, and mean nothing else. And the plans that those colors have been placed on are not exactly identical to the working drawings, but they do imply portions of the ride system, where the architectural ones do not.

There is also a complete set of foundation and structural steel drawings. There are massive foundations with 80' deep auger-cast piles under each of the four ride apparatuses. This tells me that the ride system is very similar to soarin, in that there is a massive undercarriage that holds up what will likely be a moving set of seats. Whether it just tilts like Soarin, or is on a series of hydraulic cylinders like Star Tours - I don't know. There flat out is NOT enough detail on these plans, no matter what anyone on here says. Period.

With this said, I would like to offer some bullet point facts (and inferences) that should clear up some of the questions, and bad information being circulated:

• As of this moment in time, the set of plans and narratives that contractors possess are limited only to this one large building, which contains what Disney is calling an E-Ticket and a C-Ticket. Those words are used throughout the entire set of documents.
  
  
• The C-Ticket APPEARS to be a boat ride, given the meandering course of the ride path as it comes into and leaves the northeast corner of the main building. The vehicles look like boats as well. Calling it a C-Ticket on the plans doesn't give me warm fuzzies. They couldn't do anything less than a Pirates type attraction (which I consider to have extensive theming), but I'm wondering if they'd use their new boat maneuvering patent which allows them to turn a boat and aim guests like an Omnimover does. That would make a lot of sense if they're taking you on a tour through Pandora.
  
  
• The E-Ticket has four isolated theaters, with four isolated ride systems. In no way, shape or form will guests move from one theater to another. They will operate exclusive of each other and there are four purely for the sake of crowd control and throughput. There is one queue that splits guests, via ramps, to one of 3 tiers of loading platforms in each theater. Very similar to soarin, except you board on 3 levels instead of one, and there are 4 theaters instead of 2.
  
  
• There are comments in the narratives that explain to the contractors that the following components of this land will exist, but have not yet been drawn: E-Ticket Retail, QSR, Area Retail, Area Restrooms, Conditioned Queue for C-Ticket.
  
  
• There is also a note in the narrative that the north face of the building will interface with rockscape. And given that the structural steel at the top of the 76' tall building is tapered inward, it becomes clear that this will resemble a mountain of some sort and will literally be covered in rockwork and other thematic elements.
  
  
• The C-Ticket boat ride is only shown in part (a very small part of what can be assumed to be a much longer boat ride). The rest of the ride will likely be under the exterior part of the mountain (north face of building), since guests for the E-Ticket climb a ramp (with a 1:13 slope - making the entire queue wheelchair accessible) and enter the main show building at the 3rd floor, 23' above ground level.
  
  
• The C-Ticket will have it's own queue, and the E-Ticket clearly has its own queue, and all theaters exit down stairways and usher guests back out a single exit point at the north face of the building. There is no cross connection between these two attractions. They are mutually exclusive, and one is not a pre-show for the other.
  
  
• Again, the ride system for the E-Ticket is not clear at all. In the Mechanical Narrative, seats can be identified, but quantities are indiscernible. It is 100% clear that each theater will have 3 tiers of seating, each 12' apart, vertically. It is likely that the carriage may in fact travel up and down, but all guests are looking forward at one arced screen, like in Soarin.
  
  
• The E-Ticket is most assuredly a 3D experience, simply because there are rooms on the floorplan labeled GLASSES STORAGE and GLASSES CLEANING. Kind of a dead giveaway.
  
  
• There are many ride control rooms, a control tower, and several Electrical Rooms on the lower BOH (Back of House) levels. If they're going to use a Jim Cameron produced film using his Morpho technology, they will indeed have the massive electrical and telecommunication infrastructure to operate it.
  
  
• This attraction/land will require a large Cast. There are multi-seat restrooms, a cast break room, and even a cast deployment room. The BOH floor in this building will likely be the home base for all Cast working this land.
  
  
• And to reiterate, what is shown on these plans could be for literally anything. It could become a Little Mermaid attraction. It could become Avatar. It could become a giant flight simulation movie putting the guest in the role of a butterfly. It could be for something none of us have even dreamed of. Perhaps even concepts from Beastly Kingdom. Regardless of the rumors, insider information, renderings, talks of Cameron being in Anaheim - these drawings have absolutely NO firm reference to or promise of an Avatar land. I can't make that more clear. These plans have been so carefully prepared that this facility could have any video plopped into the projectors with a new ride vehicle program - and it becomes anything. And a boat ride.....in an Animal Park.....could be ANYTHING.

Everything I've said above is true and factual (except for my obvious editorials and assumptions, which I've called out). This is not opinion. This is fact based on my professional review of the plans, narratives, scopes of work, and other documents - as of this moment in time.

Nothing has been filed with the drainage board. I don't believe any site development plans have been issued to anyone. All we know is that FotLK might move, and they flew one test balloon in the area where this would go. That's all we know, until Disney says otherwise, or they actually build it.

If anyone would like additional clarifications, or if I missed one of the misnomers going around, feel free to reply (or better yet, PM me). I will not disclose how I obtained the drawings, but I will make note that the construction industry can be tight knit. Florida and Indiana and California may be worlds apart geographically, but not in the electronic world.

The end.

Wow. Phenomenal post Edward. Thanks for your clarification. It seems like the way some of us less-edumacated folks were right on the nose.

I'd love to see the rest of the plans for the area. I guarantee you the land will be available for the bike coaster if the sequels are successful enough and if/when they decide to go ahead with Phase 2.

The lack of Avatar specific details only reaffirms my assessment that these attractions have been designed so that anything (Beastly kingdomme, etc.) can go in its place - or changed later if Avatar falls through or bombs - while minimizing expense and development costs.

 

[Taylor]

I don't know I might be in denial but I think there is going to be two e tickets at avatar

 

[Beholder]

More of.. the classic 'give me AAs!!' answer doesn't always fit the need. If I need to show highly fluid, fast moving, jumping/running characters... the Auctioneer AA doesn't cut the mustard. I'll take Genie as an animated projection on a hidden screen as part of a physical set over
an old lumbering articulated figure that looks stiff
and doesn't convey the character at all.

Instead of hating on a technology - people should consider how it's used and if it's the best way to
achieve the desired result. Physical effects still
rule the roost IMO - but not everything is best
achieved with that. Some things just can't be done
physically and maintain the realism the guest
expects - for those simulation is well suited.


For instance, I think projection in the magic mirror
in NFE is an excellent use of projection - while the
projection alcoves in the mexico pavilion and if
you had wings are poor IMO. While the AAs in Star
Tours are fantastic - they are also supposed to be
stiff robots

Flying through the air, yes, screens and virtual technology. If we're presented with a menagerie of life forms on Pandora, then give me AA's. Both techniques have a place when used in the appropriate setting. As long as Disney uses each to it's fullest potential or in new ways, them I'm happy.

 

[Beholder]

I don't know I might be in denial but I think there is going to be two e tickets at avatar

Depends on what you consider E ticket material, I guess, but I'll jump in that river!

 

[John]

I have been informing everyone here in the face of all the subterfuge. misinformation, and background noise that Pandora was going forward. Not sure why so many people here were suckered into believeing it was hopelessly mired in the development process and in-fighting that it likely would never see the light of day. A perfect example of uncritical group think creating a false consensus.

March to the beat of your own 'inner drum' folks. Take the path less traveled. It is much more fun and interesting. And you won't end up following that which is false like a lemming.

Like I said......uggggggggg

 

[GoofGoof]

I don't know I might be in denial but I think there is going to be two e tickets at avatar

I would love it if the boat ride is a true E ticket, but it seems the plans describe it as a C. Maybe we will split the difference and get a D out of it.

 

[Bairstow]

Weren't those mountains floating in the air or something? I have to admit, I was not a huge fan of the movie and I haven't seen the movie in a while, so I could be wrong. If they build the mountains from that picture I will be really impressed.

Wouldn't be the first time Imagineering has managed to make a massive structure appear to float off the ground.

A little forced perspective, a couple trees and buildings obscuring the supports, and voila: floating mountains!

 

[JustInTime]

Wow. Awesome threat. Finally something to get excited.

 

[dreamscometrue]

dont you guys think its a bit strange that Spirit announced that Cameron gave the go ahead last night and today Disney quickly moved to announce top talent on the project? I think this is looking to confirm Spirits theory that this was a controlled leak.

Or is 'Spirit' really....James Cameron! Omg!

 

[WED99]

The tech that Disney developed I don't think was mentioned as being for Avatarland, though I guess that is one application. If I am right, doesn't this tech use a screen?

I saw Avatar maybe two times on DVD, don't remember very many rocks in the film. Isn't Pandora mostly plant life?

I hate Paradise Pier, and the fact that you can see the outside world in DCA, including the Grand Californian from inside this park.

The screen was used as an example. It was meant to show that the computer does detect touch. This could be programmed to lighting, sounds even animatronics. And I assume the rockwork might be things like waterfalls, maybe the floating mountains? (No idea how they'd do it)

 

[WED99]

The rockwork you speak of was for the bike coaster. That has gotten the axe.

I got that information from a new story on the wdwmagic homepage? Are you sure?

 

[JustInTime]

Btw, thanks 74 for finally making a thread that I can read all the way through. Bravo. Never thought I'd say that to you. Pretty awesome.

 

[GoofGoof]

Wouldn't be the first time Imagineering has managed to make a massive structure appear to float off the ground.

A little forced perspective, a couple trees and buildings obscuring the supports, and voila: floating mountains!

I agree that would be pretty fantastic if they can pull it off.

 

[bubbles1812]

"Those who choose to be skeptical" -- that's rich.

Don't try to rewrite history here.

It was way more than "choosing to be skeptical"...it was delighting in being negative and enjoying complaining just for the sake of complaining.

What a giant waste of energy considering what a terrific addition to the parks FLE was.

You can continue "choosing to be skeptical" if you want but it's a sad way to go through life. That's not even complaining the glass is half empty instead of half full...it's not even drinking the water because you are convinced there's dust in it and that Universal or someone else would have much better water to drink.

Whether it's a terrific addition or not is your opinion. And let me put emphasis on that. It's just your opinion. Just like I can have mine and everyone else can have theirs. I rarely just saw complaining for the sake of complaining. Also, your last sense... you completely missed everything I said. I've "drunk the water"... did I ever say NFE was awful or that I didn't find things to praise in it? Nope. I have things that I think were done well and things I think could have been done better. It is the way of Disney projects...they always axe things that could have been really awesome and would have made the land really awesome rather than just ok. If you are totally satisfied with WDI not pushing themselves to create new ride experiences and not the same old same old, be my guest. I expect more. I don't think that makes me "evil." And I have a perfectly happy life, thank you. Also, you kight want to take down that list of demands at the bottom of your sig since you are so satisfied with everything. But anyways, this is the wrong thread for it as someone else said.

I would love it if the boat ride is a true E ticket, but it seems the plans describe it as a C. Maybe we will split the difference and get a D out of it.

Would love that too GoofGoof. I hope their plans change some between now and when the steel beams start rising (*crosses fingers this actually happens*)... and in the "plus" sense... Will be curious what we see on the boat ride.

 

[bubbles1812]

Weren't those mountains floating in the air or something? I have to admit, I was not a huge fan of the movie and I haven't seen the movie in a while, so I could be wrong. If they build the mountains from that picture I will be really impressed.

I would really hope they try to replicate this in some way. I'd say it was one of the true "stand out" images of the movie. I also really hope they include the LED trees...sorry don't know what else to call them. They were bright...

 

[jdmdisney99]

I agree that would be pretty fantastic if they can pull it off.

Giant magnets! Duh...

 

[doctornick]

While Cameron has given the okay, does anyone know if Disney still has plans of having AK closer later and have a nighttime show once Avatarland is done?

I've wondered/asked this as well and it doesn't seem like it. But I guess realistically that decision does not have to be made now. Unless they do a dedicated theater like Fantasmic, a nighttime show can be set up much quicker than these attractions, so I think we'll see something in a year or two.