Cameron has given the OK ...

[SirLink]

Coaters arent Disney. Remind me again what the most popular rides are.

Thats easy coasters.

 

[flynnibus]

haters about projection...

Projection isn't just about cost (you think this 4k stuff is cheap??) but more about being able to do things you couldn't realistically do otherwise. You're not gonna fly through things at high speed, or at heights, or with life-life creatures that move freely with a physical attraction.

So we could have the effect of flying like E.T. has.. or you could have Soarin'

Last few times I rode E.T., people weren't willing to wait 2+hrs for it and no one got off with a huge round of applause.

Technologies have their place - and its not always just 'a cheap replacement'. Stop being so narrow minded.

 

[Mawg]

I'm going to chime in again, if for no other reason than to clear up a few of the misnomers and misconceptions being batted around. Lee and others have done a nice job giving yes and no answers to specific details, but since these drawings have obviously saturated the web already, there are hundreds or thousands of people interpreting them improperly.

I'm not boasting, but since I draft, design and build commercial buildings for a living, I feel like topics like this are my one and only time to shine and call myself an "expert". I am by no means an insider. I just know exactly what I'm looking at when I see collections of documents like the ones people are seeing today.

Speaking of these drawings, the few sheets being posted on the web seem to have been acquired from sources completely separate from the venue through which my copy was delivered. Also, many of those out on the web have been photoshopped, had watermarks whited out, and are very low resolution.

The version I have on my computer is full-sized, original PDF files. The Architectural Plans are 48" wide by 36" tall blueprints - and I just printed a full size copy on our office plotter today. Those little color-coded plans are from an 8.5x11 document that the mechanical engineer produced, showing how many air conditioning units would be needed for the project. Those colored areas are actually HVAC zones, and mean nothing else. And the plans that those colors have been placed on are not exactly identical to the working drawings, but they do imply portions of the ride system, where the architectural ones do not.

There is also a complete set of foundation and structural steel drawings. There are massive foundations with 80' deep auger-cast piles under each of the four ride apparatuses. This tells me that the ride system is very similar to soarin, in that there is a massive undercarriage that holds up what will likely be a moving set of seats. Whether it just tilts like Soarin, or is on a series of hydraulic cylinders like Star Tours - I don't know. There flat out is NOT enough detail on these plans, no matter what anyone on here says. Period.

With this said, I would like to offer some bullet point facts (and inferences) that should clear up some of the questions, and bad information being circulated:

• As of this moment in time, the set of plans and narratives that contractors possess are limited only to this one large building, which contains what Disney is calling an E-Ticket and a C-Ticket. Those words are used throughout the entire set of documents.
  
• The C-Ticket APPEARS to be a boat ride, given the meandering course of the ride path as it comes into and leaves the northeast corner of the main building. The vehicles look like boats as well. Calling it a C-Ticket on the plans doesn't give me warm fuzzies. They couldn't do anything less than a Pirates type attraction (which I consider to have extensive theming), but I'm wondering if they'd use their new boat maneuvering patent which allows them to turn a boat and aim guests like an Omnimover does. That would make a lot of sense if they're taking you on a tour through Pandora.
  
• The E-Ticket has four isolated theaters, with four isolated ride systems. In no way, shape or form will guests move from one theater to another. They will operate exclusive of each other and there are four purely for the sake of crowd control and throughput. There is one queue that splits guests, via ramps, to one of 3 tiers of loading platforms in each theater. Very similar to soarin, except you board on 3 levels instead of one, and there are 4 theaters instead of 2.
  
• There are comments in the narratives that explain to the contractors that the following components of this land will exist, but have not yet been drawn: E-Ticket Retail, QSR, Area Retail, Area Restrooms, Conditioned Queue for C-Ticket.
  
• There is also a note in the narrative that the north face of the building will interface with rockscape. And given that the structural steel at the top of the 76' tall building is tapered inward, it becomes clear that this will resemble a mountain of some sort and will literally be covered in rockwork and other thematic elements.
  
• The C-Ticket boat ride is only shown in part (a very small part of what can be assumed to be a much longer boat ride). The rest of the ride will likely be under the exterior part of the mountain (north face of building), since guests for the E-Ticket climb a ramp (with a 1:13 slope - making the entire queue wheelchair accessible) and enter the main show building at the 3rd floor, 23' above ground level.
  
• The C-Ticket will have it's own queue, and the E-Ticket clearly has its own queue, and all theaters exit down stairways and usher guests back out a single exit point at the north face of the building. There is no cross connection between these two attractions. They are mutually exclusive, and one is not a pre-show for the other.
  
• Again, the ride system for the E-Ticket is not clear at all. In the Mechanical Narrative, seats can be identified, but quantities are indiscernible. It is 100% clear that each theater will have 3 tiers of seating, each 12' apart, vertically. It is likely that the carriage may in fact travel up and down, but all guests are looking forward at one arced screen, like in Soarin.
  
• The E-Ticket is most assuredly a 3D experience, simply because there are rooms on the floorplan labeled GLASSES STORAGE and GLASSES CLEANING. Kind of a dead giveaway.
  
• There are many ride control rooms, a control tower, and several Electrical Rooms on the lower BOH (Back of House) levels. If they're going to use a Jim Cameron produced film using his Morpho technology, they will indeed have the massive electrical and telecommunication infrastructure to operate it.
  
• This attraction/land will require a large Cast. There are multi-seat restrooms, a cast break room, and even a cast deployment room. The BOH floor in this building will likely be the home base for all Cast working this land.
  
• And to reiterate, what is shown on these plans could be for literally anything. It could become a Little Mermaid attraction. It could become Avatar. It could become a giant flight simulation movie putting the guest in the role of a butterfly. It could be for something none of us have even dreamed of. Perhaps even concepts from Beastly Kingdom. Regardless of the rumors, insider information, renderings, talks of Cameron being in Anaheim - these drawings have absolutely NO firm reference to or promise of an Avatar land. I can't make that more clear. These plans have been so carefully prepared that this facility could have any video plopped into the projectors with a new ride vehicle program - and it becomes anything. And a boat ride.....in an Animal Park.....could be ANYTHING.

Everything I've said above is true and factual (except for my obvious editorials and assumptions, which I've called out). This is not opinion. This is fact based on my professional review of the plans, narratives, scopes of work, and other documents - as of this moment in time.


Nothing has been filed with the drainage board. I don't believe any site development plans have been issued to anyone. All we know is that FotLK might move, and they flew one test balloon in the area where this would go. That's all we know, until Disney says otherwise, or they actually build it.

If anyone would like additional clarifications, or if I missed one of the misnomers going around, feel free to reply (or better yet, PM me). I will not disclose how I obtained the drawings, but I will make note that the construction industry can be tight knit. Florida and Indiana and California may be worlds apart geographically, but not in the electronic world.

The end.

Worth quoting again so that people don't get carried away and the thread out of control.

 

[Magenta Panther]

Maybe the leak is also a "test balloon"...

 

[Hakunamatata]

I'm going to chime in again, if for no other reason than to clear up a few of the misnomers and misconceptions being batted around. Lee and others have done a nice job giving yes and no answers to specific details, but since these drawings have obviously saturated the web already, there are hundreds or thousands of people interpreting them improperly.

I'm not boasting, but since I draft, design and build commercial buildings for a living, I feel like topics like this are my one and only time to shine and call myself an "expert". I am by no means an insider. I just know exactly what I'm looking at when I see collections of documents like the ones people are seeing today.

Speaking of these drawings, the few sheets being posted on the web seem to have been acquired from sources completely separate from the venue through which my copy was delivered. Also, many of those out on the web have been photoshopped, had watermarks whited out, and are very low resolution.

The version I have on my computer is full-sized, original PDF files. The Architectural Plans are 48" wide by 36" tall blueprints - and I just printed a full size copy on our office plotter today. Those little color-coded plans are from an 8.5x11 document that the mechanical engineer produced, showing how many air conditioning units would be needed for the project. Those colored areas are actually HVAC zones, and mean nothing else. And the plans that those colors have been placed on are not exactly identical to the working drawings, but they do imply portions of the ride system, where the architectural ones do not.

There is also a complete set of foundation and structural steel drawings. There are massive foundations with 80' deep auger-cast piles under each of the four ride apparatuses. This tells me that the ride system is very similar to soarin, in that there is a massive undercarriage that holds up what will likely be a moving set of seats. Whether it just tilts like Soarin, or is on a series of hydraulic cylinders like Star Tours - I don't know. There flat out is NOT enough detail on these plans, no matter what anyone on here says. Period.

With this said, I would like to offer some bullet point facts (and inferences) that should clear up some of the questions, and bad information being circulated:

• As of this moment in time, the set of plans and narratives that contractors possess are limited only to this one large building, which contains what Disney is calling an E-Ticket and a C-Ticket. Those words are used throughout the entire set of documents.
  
  
• The C-Ticket APPEARS to be a boat ride, given the meandering course of the ride path as it comes into and leaves the northeast corner of the main building. The vehicles look like boats as well. Calling it a C-Ticket on the plans doesn't give me warm fuzzies. They couldn't do anything less than a Pirates type attraction (which I consider to have extensive theming), but I'm wondering if they'd use their new boat maneuvering patent which allows them to turn a boat and aim guests like an Omnimover does. That would make a lot of sense if they're taking you on a tour through Pandora.
  
  
• The E-Ticket has four isolated theaters, with four isolated ride systems. In no way, shape or form will guests move from one theater to another. They will operate exclusive of each other and there are four purely for the sake of crowd control and throughput. There is one queue that splits guests, via ramps, to one of 3 tiers of loading platforms in each theater. Very similar to soarin, except you board on 3 levels instead of one, and there are 4 theaters instead of 2.
  
  
• There are comments in the narratives that explain to the contractors that the following components of this land will exist, but have not yet been drawn: E-Ticket Retail, QSR, Area Retail, Area Restrooms, Conditioned Queue for C-Ticket.
  
  
• There is also a note in the narrative that the north face of the building will interface with rockscape. And given that the structural steel at the top of the 76' tall building is tapered inward, it becomes clear that this will resemble a mountain of some sort and will literally be covered in rockwork and other thematic elements.
  
  
• The C-Ticket boat ride is only shown in part (a very small part of what can be assumed to be a much longer boat ride). The rest of the ride will likely be under the exterior part of the mountain (north face of building), since guests for the E-Ticket climb a ramp (with a 1:13 slope - making the entire queue wheelchair accessible) and enter the main show building at the 3rd floor, 23' above ground level.
  
  
• The C-Ticket will have it's own queue, and the E-Ticket clearly has its own queue, and all theaters exit down stairways and usher guests back out a single exit point at the north face of the building. There is no cross connection between these two attractions. They are mutually exclusive, and one is not a pre-show for the other.
  
  
• Again, the ride system for the E-Ticket is not clear at all. In the Mechanical Narrative, seats can be identified, but quantities are indiscernible. It is 100% clear that each theater will have 3 tiers of seating, each 12' apart, vertically. It is likely that the carriage may in fact travel up and down, but all guests are looking forward at one arced screen, like in Soarin.
  
  
• The E-Ticket is most assuredly a 3D experience, simply because there are rooms on the floorplan labeled GLASSES STORAGE and GLASSES CLEANING. Kind of a dead giveaway.
  
  
• There are many ride control rooms, a control tower, and several Electrical Rooms on the lower BOH (Back of House) levels. If they're going to use a Jim Cameron produced film using his Morpho technology, they will indeed have the massive electrical and telecommunication infrastructure to operate it.
  
  
• This attraction/land will require a large Cast. There are multi-seat restrooms, a cast break room, and even a cast deployment room. The BOH floor in this building will likely be the home base for all Cast working this land.
  
  
• And to reiterate, what is shown on these plans could be for literally anything. It could become a Little Mermaid attraction. It could become Avatar. It could become a giant flight simulation movie putting the guest in the role of a butterfly. It could be for something none of us have even dreamed of. Perhaps even concepts from Beastly Kingdom. Regardless of the rumors, insider information, renderings, talks of Cameron being in Anaheim - these drawings have absolutely NO firm reference to or promise of an Avatar land. I can't make that more clear. These plans have been so carefully prepared that this facility could have any video plopped into the projectors with a new ride vehicle program - and it becomes anything. And a boat ride.....in an Animal Park.....could be ANYTHING.

Everything I've said above is true and factual (except for my obvious editorials and assumptions, which I've called out). This is not opinion. This is fact based on my professional review of the plans, narratives, scopes of work, and other documents - as of this moment in time.

Nothing has been filed with the drainage board. I don't believe any site development plans have been issued to anyone. All we know is that FotLK might move, and they flew one test balloon in the area where this would go. That's all we know, until Disney says otherwise, or they actually build it.

If anyone would like additional clarifications, or if I missed one of the misnomers going around, feel free to reply (or better yet, PM me). I will not disclose how I obtained the drawings, but I will make note that the construction industry can be tight knit. Florida and Indiana and California may be worlds apart geographically, but not in the electronic world.

The end.

Excellent read. Thanks for taking the time to put this together.

 

[Beholder]

haters about projection...

Projection isn't just about cost (you think this 4k stuff is cheap??) but more about being able to do things you couldn't realistically do otherwise. You're not gonna fly through things at high speed,
or at heights, or with life-life creatures that move
freely with a physical attraction.


So we could have the effect of flying like E.T.
has.. or you could have Soarin'


Last few times I rode E.T., people weren't willing
to wait 2+hrs for it and no one got off with a huge
round of applause.

Technologies have their place - and its not always
just 'a cheap replacement'. Stop being so narrow
minded.

This a really good point. I guess screens and projections bridge the gap between the traditional omnimover type ride and a full on coaster. Both detail and thrill can be achieved with good design, such as ToT, but to fully achieve that true "flying" through the air feeling, a "Soarin" derivative would be the easiest, if not "cheapest"'way to go.

 

[jt04]

... to WDI's current plans for Pandora, and bids will be put out for construction work.

I am not postive as to the exact makeup of said land, but it appears Disney 'won' the battle and there will be two attractions and NOT the three that had been pushed for.

But I am awaiting further details before I post more.

Also, note this has NOTHING to do with ongoing plans for a major makeover of TPFKaTD-MGMS.

I have been informing everyone here in the face of all the subterfuge. misinformation, and background noise that Pandora was going forward. Not sure why so many people here were suckered into believeing it was hopelessly mired in the development process and in-fighting that it likely would never see the light of day. A perfect example of uncritical group think creating a false consensus.

March to the beat of your own 'inner drum' folks. Take the path less traveled. It is much more fun and interesting. And you won't end up following that which is false like a lemming.

 

[gonnichi]

I agree, I still see negative comments everywhere. Examples I've seen, Be our guest does not have a dome ceiling, Tales with Belle - only for kids, LM queue - dead Ariel hanging out front, queue too detailed, it will move too fast with no time to enjoy, waste of money. LM Ride - rip off from DL and C ticket, Story Book Circus - Nothing new here, Mine Train - should be done already. Seems the same to me.

I think it is so funny how people here like to scold others just becasue they have a different opinion about something then their own. Everyone here is intitled to their own opinions. If it doesnt agree with yours that doesnt mean they are always negative, its just their opinion is different then yours. People here who seem negative to you are just expressing thier own individual opinions about what Disney has created. This was not directed at you Burks, it was at someone else, sorry if it seemed like it was posted at you. It was just a good spot to say it.

 

[drew81]

@WDWFigment I think such harsh words deserve a shrimp cocktail, at a minimum

At St Elmo's??

 

[bubbles1812]

Have you noticed how all the malcontents got INCREDIBLY QUIET now that New Fantasyland is nearing completion.

All of the people who spent the last several years on Disney fan sites attacking the Mouse and claiming that all the attractions in FLE would be terrible are nowhere to be found now that we can see how amazing the place is.

I distinctly remember, in particular, the malcontents saying that BOG restaurant would be stupid and terrible and ugly and you name it...and instead it's the most gorgeous restaurant I have ever seen. It's enchanting. The whole FLE is enchanting beyond my dreams.

And all the malcontents are pretending they never said anything bad about any of it.

I wish they would man (or woman) up and admit they were wrong and that it was a waste of energy to be so evil towards these projects for so long. I wish they would just admit that they hate things and complain solely for something to do.

Firstly, I'm not a "malcontent". Secondly, my first bolded part... apparently you don't read because there is still plenty of criticism about NFE. I take a middle road personally. There are some things I like such as the highly detailed scenery. It's awesome. However, I do find the attractions to be a little lacking. Disney could have and should have done it better. They should have sucked it up and paid the money to add an E ticket instead of what they have now. I'm sure the rides are nice and sweet but they certainly don't wow me by any means. None of them, not even the mine train, push the boundaries of innovation in ride tech/design the way Disney used to. That is where my criticism lies.

Thirdly, "a waste of energy to be so evil"... evil? Really?? Seriously. Just because people had opinions that questioned how well done the land would be/is they get classified as evil? Sure. I'll give you that there were some truly negative nellies out there but your whole post is a huge generalization of those who chose to be skeptical of NFE. I still give it a big ok. A+ for the scenery. C/C+ attraction wise with judgment still pending on the mine train, and that ride isn't an E ticket.

 

[danlb_2000]

I have been informing everyone here in the face of all the subterfuge. misinformation, and background noise that Pandora was going forward. Not sure why so many people here were suckered into believeing it was hopelessly mired in the development process and in-fighting that it likely would never see the light of day. A perfect example of uncritical group think creating a false consensus.

March to the beat of your own 'inner drum' folks. Take the path less traveled. It is much more fun and interesting. And you won't end up following that which is false like a lemming.

Well, that was predictable. So you are saying you believe the insiders when they say things that support your view, but don't trust them when they don't?

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Threads like this certainly bring the Mr Cadburys Parrots out.

 

[Atomicmickey]

I was thinking the same thing when people described a mountain. Maybe the next 2 movies will feature more mountains.

Um, yeah. Mountains.

 

[Ignohippo]

I completely forgot about the rockwork at Carsland! Yes it is beautiful, but on my trip a couple weeks ago I went to DCA and the actual Grand Canyon. I can promise you, it doesn't even compare!

Avatar has been confirmed to have an elaborate rockwork interior, imagineering even hired the genius who designed big thunder and mysterious island (DisneySea). I doubt these plans are the entire land, I think we can expect a couple more attractions. And imagineering also showed off a new technology they created using plants. It lets a computer know when and where you touch a certain plant, that can be used to set off effects.

Disney has never let me down to the point where I hate something, I have 100% faith in this project!

The rockwork you speak of was for the bike coaster. That has gotten the axe.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

 

[GoofGoof]

Um, yeah. Mountains.

Weren't those mountains floating in the air or something? I have to admit, I was not a huge fan of the movie and I haven't seen the movie in a while, so I could be wrong. If they build the mountains from that picture I will be really impressed.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Weren't those mountains floating in the air or something? I have to admit, I was not a huge fan of the movie and I haven't seen the movie in a while, so I could be wrong. If they build the mountains from that picture I will be really impressed.

Theyll use Disney magic and Pixie Dust, yea of little faith.

 

[Patricia Melton]

] Thirdly, "a waste of energy to be so evil"... evil? Really?? Seriously. Just because people had opinions that questioned how well done the land would be/is they get classified as evil? Sure. I'll give you that there were some truly negative nellies out there but your whole post is a huge generalization of those who chose to be skeptical of NFE. I still give it a big ok. A+ for the scenery. C/C+ attraction wise with judgment still pending on the mine train, and that ride isn't an E ticket.

"Those who choose to be skeptical" -- that's rich.

Don't try to rewrite history here.

It was way more than "choosing to be skeptical"...it was delighting in being negative and enjoying complaining just for the sake of complaining.

What a giant waste of energy considering what a terrific addition to the parks FLE was.

You can continue "choosing to be skeptical" if you want but it's a sad way to go through life. That's not even complaining the glass is half empty instead of half full...it's not even drinking the water because you are convinced there's dust in it and that Universal or someone else would have much better water to drink.

 

[alissafalco]

Have you noticed how all the malcontents got INCREDIBLY QUIET now that New Fantasyland is nearing completion.

All of the people who spent the last several years on Disney fan sites attacking the Mouse and claiming that all the attractions in FLE would be terrible are nowhere to be found now that we can see how amazing the place is.

I distinctly remember, in particular, the malcontents saying that BOG restaurant would be stupid and terrible and ugly and you name it...and instead it's the most gorgeous restaurant I have ever seen. It's enchanting. The whole FLE is enchanting beyond my dreams.

And all the malcontents are pretending they never said anything bad about any of it.

I wish they would man (or woman) up and admit they were wrong and that it was a waste of energy to be so evil towards these projects for so long. I wish they would just admit that they hate things and complain solely for something to do.

I think you clicked on the wrong thread. You need to post this somewhere else.

 

[wdwfan4ver]

While Cameron has given the okay, does anyone know if Disney still has plans of having AK closing later and have a nighttime show once Avatarland is done?