Burbank....we have a problem!

[flavious27]

You are surprisingly accurate actually. IOA has been averaging 30k daily in attendance since June which is roughly a 20k increase over daily attendance last year.

a 20k increase of what they were doing the same quarter or just 20k over the average for the year? because summer time is usually the busiest time of any florida amusement park.

 

[flavious27]

From your post it seems you are implicitly implying that the Disney decade was a failure. Which I totally, totally disagree with.

This is what the Disney decade brought to WDW alone:
Animal Kingdom
Splash Mountain
Buzz Lightyear Space Ranger Spin
Tower of Terror
Rock N Roller Coaster
Test Track
The West Side to Downtown Disney
The Wilderness Lodge
Old Key West
DVC
Boardwalk
Carousel Of Progress


That list alone is more of accomplishment then what has been placed in WDW since 2000. Nothing measures to that.

Also please I ask that you place aside your love for Disney and look at it in a real way. HARRY POTTER HAS BEEN OUT FOR A DECADE and it hasn't gone out of style. And I'm sure it won't go out of style for another decade. Because scholastic will do what Disney does. Keep re realsing the books to a younger generation so it will create a new generation of Potter Fanatics. I mean come on people Harry Potter is the closest thing to Star Wars (even though it will never match it).

Most of what is listed their is not what was promised in early 1990, and some were in place beforehand (Carousel Of Progress). Also I don't know how dvc and boardwalk would be part of a dream for guests to be added to wdw. AK and Splash Mountain are the only draws to the park that were part of the disney decade plan and are still open.

 

[GLaDOS]

IOA's attendance has been slipping until june of this year because universal does not know how to run and maintain a thrill park. look at great adventure and cedar point, they know that the way to sustain interest is to add a new ride every year.

Ummm...maybe because IoA isn't a thrill park it's a theme park.:wave:

And apparently you didn't read what marni said the other day. Universal plans on investing a lot since HP is such a success.

Also...saying Great Adventure and Cedar Point know how to run parks better than Universal...:ROFLOL:

Also, also, who's paying 8 bucks on a "cream soda"(it's much different than that, btw. I'm guessing you haven't been to the park)? And what ride is 90 seconds? Surely you don't mean Forbidden Journey. Because that's 4 minutes long.:wave:

 

[flavious27]

Parking, Hotels for many. People need to eat and they are gonna do it at the resort. You also clearly have no ideas of profit margins if you think that is not a healthy gap on things like wands and butterbeer. Something else to consider. The most popular ride right now exits through a gift shop full of on ride photo options and gifts ranging from five dollars to 400.

Butterbeer cost Universal around 50 cents a cup(t if that and that is even including the plastic cup. For a regular priced butterbeer its just under 4 dollars. There is ALWAYS a line of some form at all three locations. That is not counting the up charge they get a lot of people with for the souvinier butterbeer mugs.

A pygmy puff, which is a stuffed animal representation of creatures from the same name from the books is sold more than once every five min. That is quite literal and that is slower times. I heard one adopted about every 2 min on one of my last trips. Its amazing. They are around 20 bucks and like most plushies are made for dirt cheap overseas. They honestly had a hard time over the summer keeping those things on the shelf. Pumpkin Juice. Five dollars a bottle. Not as big profit margin there but sitll making at least 3 dollars off of every person who buys it. Chocolate Frogs. Huge candy ten bucks a piece. You get a nice cardboard box and a large solid chocolate frog with a holographic card. Those sell by the hundreds a day. I could go on and on but there is no point.

If they were not making huge profit margins, they would not be selling them.

Forbidden Journey has likely reached near 3 on its way to 4 million riders by now. It had already had over a million riders in August.

Potter has performed better than even Universal expected it would right off the bat.


Potter cost between 200 and 300 million as a project total from every where I have heard. WB gets a percentage but Uni would not do it if it was not a great deal and WB does nothing but make sure things are up to standard and take their bits. You get an extra 3 to 4 million people through those gates spending around 80 dollars on average (taking in discounts its about 80 on average) than you have already well on your way. That is presuming they spend one day, and that is not taking into account food, beverage, and merchandise as well as onsite loding.

Potter if not already, will see a profit very very soon. And its going to be a heavy one.

Universal does not own the hotels, so they will only get so much of the cut. The same for the restaurants that are part of city walk, universal is just the landlord. The same for all of the WB and JK merchandise that universal sells.

You think that FJ has reached 4 million rides in 5 months? 800k a month, 26k a day and 3k a hour within a 8 hour day? You do know that is impossible, right. Do the math, 47 ride vehicles, 4 people per vehicle, atleast a 4 minute ride duration.

 

[flavious27]

Ummm...maybe because IoA isn't a thrill park it's a theme park.:wave:

And apparently you didn't read what marni said the other day. Universal plans on investing a lot since HP is such a success.

Also...saying Great Adventure and Cedar Point know how to run parks better than Universal...:ROFLOL:

Also, also, who's paying 8 bucks on a "cream soda"(it's much different than that, btw. I'm guessing you haven't been to the park)? And what ride is 90 seconds? Surely you don't mean Forbidden Journey. Because that's 4 minutes long.:wave:

ioa is a theme park? because I thought the draw was the thrill rides with licensing to promote them.

the money that universal is investing is that the 3 billion plan they released last week, because most of that money is on their version of celebration and DTD in LA.

$8 is for the souvenir cup, which you know people are going to want. I am wrong, I misquoted the ride time for FJ.

 

[GLaDOS]

ioa is a theme park? because I thought the draw was the thrill rides with licensing to promote them.

I'd hardly call the 2 biggest rides in the park thrill rides. Spider-man and Forbidden Journey are world class dark rides. Even then, the park has only 2 of what I would consider 2 thrill rides with minimal theming and that's Hulk and Dragon Challenge.

Other big ticket rides are Pop-eye and Bluto's Bilge Rat Barges, the best themed river rapids ride I've ever seen. Dudley Do Right's Ripsaw Falls a nicely themed log flume, though not as good as Splash Mountain. Jurassic Park River Adventure has some of the best theming out there, and the effects have been getting overhauled and fixed so they're more reliable. Cat in the Hat is a better dark ride than anything in Fantasyland. Poseidon's Fury is a very impressively themed walkthrough attraction.

There's more than that too. But I figure that's enough to show that it's a theme park.:shrug:

the money that universal is investing is that the 3 billion plan they released last week, because most of that money is on their version of celebration and DTD in LA.

Funny...he said they were looking to invest in the parks.

 

[DarthGrady]

Ummm...maybe because IoA isn't a thrill park it's a theme park.:wave:

And apparently you didn't read what marni said the other day. Universal plans on investing a lot since HP is such a success.

Also...saying Great Adventure and Cedar Point know how to run parks better than Universal...:ROFLOL:

Also, also, who's paying 8 bucks on a "cream soda"(it's much different than that, btw. I'm guessing you haven't been to the park)? And what ride is 90 seconds? Surely you don't mean Forbidden Journey. Because that's 4 minutes long.:wave:

I'll say it was just about the best cream soda Ive ever had. The butterscotch froth on top was the best part. mmmmmmmmm :slurp:

We only paid like $3.50, but we also didn't get the souvenir cup.

 

[flavious27]

I'd hardly call the 2 biggest rides in the park thrill rides. Spider-man and Forbidden Journey are world class dark rides. Even then, the park has only 2 of what I would consider 2 thrill rides with minimal theming and that's Hulk and Dragon Challenge.

Other big ticket rides are Pop-eye and Bluto's Bilge Rat Barges, the best themed river rapids ride I've ever seen. Dudley Do Right's Ripsaw Falls a nicely themed log flume, though not as good as Splash Mountain. Jurassic Park River Adventure has some of the best theming out there, and the effects have been getting overhauled and fixed so they're more reliable. Cat in the Hat is a better dark ride than anything in Fantasyland. Poseidon's Fury is a very impressively themed walkthrough attraction.

There's more than that too. But I figure that's enough to show that it's a theme park.:shrug:



Funny...he said they were looking to invest in the parks.

When we went in 01, the decision was between studios and IOA. we saw coasters, we wanted thrill.

ioa is themed better than say six flags, well everyone is themed better than six flags. But when you walk in you see hulk on your left side and dueling dragons far off on the right side. walk around and you see the space shot ride. it just seems like universal told themselves that build a theme park and decided not to spend anymore money.

The announcement mentioned that they were replacing older rides with new news at the studios, which is needed.

 

[cheezbat]

[QUOTE/]HP will still be a fad after the last movie is shown. People are asking about wwhp now because it opened 3 months ago and they have not expreinced it yet. in 5 years after people that wanted to see it have seen it, will it grow park admission? no. all wwhp is is a bunch of well themed stores and two restaurant a new ride and two rethemed rides. people are not going to repeatedly spend thousands to fly down to ride two coasters that are over 10 years old, wait in line for an hour to ride a 90 second ride and spend $8 on a cream soda.

IOA's attendance has been slipping until june of this year because universal does not know how to run and maintain a thrill park. look at great adventure and cedar point, they know that the way to sustain interest is to add a new ride every year.[/QUOTE]


Uh you're wrong. So wrong. I know numerous people who have visited and already set up plans to revisit next year. I have been over to IOA numerous times this summer and haven't gotten anywhere near enough of WWOHP...and I'm NOT a big Potter fan at all. I alone have spent at least 200 dollars if not more in the Wizarding World. And Im one person, and not a big fan.

Also, the Wizarding World opened up FIVE months ago...and the crowds have been pouring in daily. IOA has been staying open until 9 or 10 every day, whereas this time last year it was closing by 6.

And this talk of people not wanting to ride a ten year old coaster...nonsense. People ride Space Mountain...which is over 30 years old...people love Montu, another Inverted coaster over in Busch Gardens which is 14 years old...what about the original Batman the Ride at Six Flags Great America in Chicago? Almost 19 years old and a park staple. People love those rides. The Dragons may be over ten years old, but people will still come to ride it.

I don't know if you've actually been to The Wizarding World, and if you have, maybe you came with your 'Disney is better than anyone' glasses on. Universal has some great things to offer...and the WWOHP is indeed amazing. Oh yeah, and Forbidden Journey is over 4 minutes long. Give it a chance...you may actually enjoy yourself!

 

[T-1MILLION]

Universal does not own the hotels, so they will only get so much of the cut. The same for the restaurants that are part of city walk, universal is just the landlord. The same for all of the WB and JK merchandise that universal sells.

You think that FJ has reached 4 million rides in 5 months? 800k a month, 26k a day and 3k a hour within a 8 hour day? You do know that is impossible, right. Do the math, 47 ride vehicles, 4 people per vehicle, atleast a 4 minute ride duration.

I did not say 4 million yet. After the holidays come Janurary...yes past three million and on its way to four. Where the heck are you getting that the park is open for only 8 hours a day? Also how is June till now or after the holidays five months? The park has been open on average to at least 8 and sometimes ten since potter has open. Quit making hours and prices up people. Who is spending 8 dollars on a drink and who came up with that figure for Butterbeer? Ha. It must hurt using an imagination for all those figures.

Universal gets enough of the cut to make a great profit, and they are otherwise, they would not have done it. Just like Lucasfilm and Fox for Star Wars or Paramount for Indiana Jones or even CBS with the Twlight Zone. The hotels are owned by Lowes but Universal makes a ton off of them. Just like Disney makes a ton of money off of The Hilton on Disney property for example.

You are also presuming that Citywalk is only resturants. It is also many Universal owned gift areas and a large Universal Store. You also presume that the only merch purchased are in the wizarding world. Right now the majority yes but with all the extra guests...they spend merch money elsewhere, and they do eat while in the park. And what is good for businesses at CityWalk even though they don't make money directly is good for Universal Resort. Seriously. Quit the denial. WDW merch down, WDW Attendance flat lining. Sea World Busch parks attendance drastically down. Universal attendance and merch way up. Proof is all there.

 

[flavious27]

I did not say 4 million yet. After the holidays come Janurary...yes past three million and on its way to four. Where the heck are you getting that the park is open for only 8 hours a day? Also how is June till now or after the holidays five months? The park has been open on average to at least 8 and sometimes ten since potter has open. Quit making hours and prices up people. Who is spending 8 dollars on a drink and who came up with that figure for Butterbeer? Ha. It must hurt using an imagination for all those figures.

Universal gets enough of the cut to make a great profit, and they are otherwise, they would not have done it. Just like Lucasfilm and Fox for Star Wars or Paramount for Indiana Jones or even CBS with the Twlight Zone. The hotels are owned by Lowes but Universal makes a ton off of them. Just like Disney makes a ton of money off of The Hilton on Disney property for example.

You are also presuming that Citywalk is only resturants. It is also many Universal owned gift areas and a large Universal Store. You also presume that the only merch purchased are in the wizarding world. Right now the majority yes but with all the extra guests...they spend merch money elsewhere, and they do eat while in the park. And what is good for businesses at CityWalk even though they don't make money directly is good for Universal Resort. Seriously. Quit the denial. WDW merch down, WDW Attendance flat lining. Sea World Busch parks attendance drastically down. Universal attendance and merch way up. Proof is all there.

Forbidden Journey has likely reached near 3 on its way to 4 million riders by now. It had already had over a million riders in August.

 

[T-1MILLION]

Forbidden Journey has likely reached near 3 on its way to 4 million riders by now. It had already had over a million riders in August.

What the heck? Packpeddling or something? You just said that it was not mathmatically possible and now agree with my earlier post.:hammer:

Also,That would be presuming that every month is as crowded as June, July and August. Not the case, that is why my estimate was conservative and said come after the holidays it will be.

Let's put it this way, it is far more popular of a single attraction than anything disney currently has or will have in the near future. As a bonus, all the effects are working with the exception of one tricky projection effect they fixed.

 

[flavious27]

I did not say 4 million yet. After the holidays come Janurary...yes past three million and on its way to four. Where the heck are you getting that the park is open for only 8 hours a day? Also how is June till now or after the holidays five months? The park has been open on average to at least 8 and sometimes ten since potter has open. Quit making hours and prices up people. Who is spending 8 dollars on a drink and who came up with that figure for Butterbeer? Ha. It must hurt using an imagination for all those figures.

Universal gets enough of the cut to make a great profit, and they are otherwise, they would not have done it. Just like Lucasfilm and Fox for Star Wars or Paramount for Indiana Jones or even CBS with the Twlight Zone. The hotels are owned by Lowes but Universal makes a ton off of them. Just like Disney makes a ton of money off of The Hilton on Disney property for example.

You are also presuming that Citywalk is only resturants. It is also many Universal owned gift areas and a large Universal Store. You also presume that the only merch purchased are in the wizarding world. Right now the majority yes but with all the extra guests...they spend merch money elsewhere, and they do eat while in the park. And what is good for businesses at CityWalk even though they don't make money directly is good for Universal Resort. Seriously. Quit the denial. WDW merch down, WDW Attendance flat lining. Sea World Busch parks attendance drastically down. Universal attendance and merch way up. Proof is all there.

Dining

* Hard Rock Cafe Orlando - non universal
* Jimmy Buffett's Margaritaville - non universal
* Emeril's Restaurant Orlando - non universal
* NBA City - non universal
* Latin Quarter ?
* Pastamoré Ristoranté & Market
* Starbucks - non universal
* Bubba Gump Shrimp Co. - non universal
* TCBY - non universal
* Cinnabon - non universal
* NASCAR Sports Grille - non universal
* Pat O'Brien's Bar - non universal
* BK Whopper Bar - non universal
* Panda Express - non universal
* Moe's Southwest Grill - - non universal
* Bob Marley - A Tribute to Freedom ?

Shopping

* Tommy Bahama - non universal
* BMG Gear - non universal
* Cigarz at CityWalk - non universal
* The Endangered Species Store ?
* Fossil, Inc. - non universal
* Fresh Produce ?
* Katie's Candy Co. - non universal
* Quiet Flight Surf Shop - non universal
* Universal Studios Store
* Hart & Huntington Tattoo Company - non universal
* Element Skateboards - non universal

 

[flavious27]

What the heck? Packpeddling or something? You just said that it was not mathmatically possible and now agree with my earlier post.:hammer:

Also,That would be presuming that every month is as crowded as June, July and August. Not the case, that is why my estimate was conservative and said come after the holidays it will be.

Let's put it this way, it is far more popular of a single attraction than anything disney currently has or will have in the near future. As a bonus, all the effects are working with the exception of one tricky projection effect they fixed.

That was your quote.

 

[flavious27]

[QUOTE/]HP will still be a fad after the last movie is shown. People are asking about wwhp now because it opened 3 months ago and they have not expreinced it yet. in 5 years after people that wanted to see it have seen it, will it grow park admission? no. all wwhp is is a bunch of well themed stores and two restaurant a new ride and two rethemed rides. people are not going to repeatedly spend thousands to fly down to ride two coasters that are over 10 years old, wait in line for an hour to ride a 90 second ride and spend $8 on a cream soda.

IOA's attendance has been slipping until june of this year because universal does not know how to run and maintain a thrill park. look at great adventure and cedar point, they know that the way to sustain interest is to add a new ride every year.

Uh you're wrong. So wrong. I know numerous people who have visited and already set up plans to revisit next year. I have been over to IOA numerous times this summer and haven't gotten anywhere near enough of WWOHP...and I'm NOT a big Potter fan at all. I alone have spent at least 200 dollars if not more in the Wizarding World. And Im one person, and not a big fan.

Also, the Wizarding World opened up FIVE months ago...and the crowds have been pouring in daily. IOA has been staying open until 9 or 10 every day, whereas this time last year it was closing by 6.

And this talk of people not wanting to ride a ten year old coaster...nonsense. People ride Space Mountain...which is over 30 years old...people love Montu, another Inverted coaster over in Busch Gardens which is 14 years old...what about the original Batman the Ride at Six Flags Great America in Chicago? Almost 19 years old and a park staple. People love those rides. The Dragons may be over ten years old, but people will still come to ride it.

I don't know if you've actually been to The Wizarding World, and if you have, maybe you came with your 'Disney is better than anyone' glasses on. Universal has some great things to offer...and the WWOHP is indeed amazing. Oh yeah, and Forbidden Journey is over 4 minutes long. Give it a chance...you may actually enjoy yourself![/QUOTE]

I can't justify spending $80 for a 4 minute ride and riding the same exact ride selection that was in place 10 years ago. I would rather spend $37 and be surrounded by nyers at great adventure, they continue to add value to their property.

Disney continues to add rides and attractions to their parks, I don't know what other top 25 parks in the US that has just sat on their laurels for so long as universal has done with IOA. Space mountain is 35 years old, and rock n roller coaster is over 10 years old but disney has added other attractions since then. Hell the small park that that I grew up at, Clementon lake park, has been adding rides this decade.

This is my point and why I know that wwhp alone will not sustain growth at IOA.

 

[flavious27]

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/showthread.php?t=665358

This can change things up a bit at IOA if it is true.

 

[Disco Yeti]

Okay, let's not turn this into another WDW vs. Universal thread. That's not really the point.

I'd much rather turn this into WDW vs. DL! :drevil:

No, but seriously. I love WDW. Love it. But I do believe we have to make noise if we want to see WDW get the attention it deserves.

And here is where I think that Save WDW site would have helped... We could have a person on the inside taking pictures of all the failings... We could have "reporters" writing articles on the slow demise of the once great WDW resort... We can really stir up the pot if done right... And before anyone says it won't work, the power of blogs and the internet is amazing... And the power of the media cannot be denied... Someone needs to hold the powers that be responsible.. Iger isn't going to do it... So, let's force his hand and let us, the fans, do it...

I absolutely agree. It's why I (and some of my secret yeti friends) run the DiscoYeti.com blog - to point out things that need to be pointed out, get reports from the inside, and have a sense of humor about it all. Not to bash WDW, but to lovingly encourage WDW management to try harder.

Like a few days ago, I posted a blog entry poking fun at the DL vs. WDW rivalry. Some of it is just to have fun. But take a look at the pictures from DCA's animation building and how those attractions were changed when they moved to WDW. It's enough to make you cry.

No, seriously.

B. Mode
The Disco Yeti

 

[TarzanRocked99-]

Dining

* Hard Rock Cafe Orlando - non universal
* Jimmy Buffett's Margaritaville - non universal
* Emeril's Restaurant Orlando - non universal
* NBA City - non universal
* Latin Quarter ?
* Pastamoré Ristoranté & Market
* Starbucks - non universal
* Bubba Gump Shrimp Co. - non universal
* TCBY - non universal
* Cinnabon - non universal
* NASCAR Sports Grille - non universal
* Pat O'Brien's Bar - non universal
* BK Whopper Bar - non universal
* Panda Express - non universal
* Moe's Southwest Grill - - non universal
* Bob Marley - A Tribute to Freedom ?

Shopping

* Tommy Bahama - non universal
* BMG Gear - non universal
* Cigarz at CityWalk - non universal
* The Endangered Species Store ?
* Fossil, Inc. - non universal
* Fresh Produce ?
* Katie's Candy Co. - non universal
* Quiet Flight Surf Shop - non universal
* Universal Studios Store
* Hart & Huntington Tattoo Company - non universal
* Element Skateboards - non universal

You point to this model as if it's a failure yet, this is EXACTLY what Disney is trying to do over at DD. The more the merchants make the more Universal makes, simple fact.

 

[TarzanRocked99-]

Disney continues to add rides and attractions to their parks, I don't know what other top 25 parks in the US that has just sat on their laurels for so long as universal has done with IOA. Space mountain is 35 years old, and rock n roller coaster is over 10 years old but disney has added other attractions since then. Hell the small park that that I grew up at, Clementon lake park, has been adding rides this decade.

This is my point and why I know that wwhp alone will not sustain growth at IOA.

Take a moment and compare a list of all new attractions (not shops restaurants and hotels) that have been added to both WDW and Universal Orlando since 2000, I think you may be suprised at just how much Uni has added in their two parks compared to WDW's four.

 

[trr1]

Take a moment and compare a list of all new attractions (not shops restaurants and hotels) that have been added to both WDW and Universal Orlando since 2000, I think you may be suprised at just how much Uni has added in their two parks compared to WDW's four.

could you please do that. I'm too tired :snore: