Burbank....we have a problem!

[marni1971]

WHAT?! How can you say that?! DL is the legacy park and provides a solid foundation to base all parks on, but in no way can it be considered the flagship that WDW provides...

As a single park, Disneyland is considered the flagship park. And rightly so.

Personally I`d rate Disneyland Parc in Paris the second. I can`t judge Tokyo Disneyland yet.

But as resorts as a whole go, Orlando is classed the flagship resort.

will they? I don't see them building anymore until they have the original construction costs fully paid off.

They were paid off months ago. It`s been that successful.

 

[GLaDOS]

They were paid off months ago. It`s been that successful.

Seriously? Months ago!?

 

[gustaftp]

Instead of going to WDW for the past 3 years, I have taken to visiting places represented at EPCOT.

I've spent more money to travel to foreign lands than a WDW trip costs, but it is worth it. I've now been to Canada, Mexico, Germany, Switzerland, Netherlands, France, and Italy. World Showcase really helped spike my interest in traveling and checking out other parts of the world. Disney does a nice job recreating places, but when you get oot-and-aboot you realize everything has a lot of depth and truly unique and immersive cultures which a pavilion can't really do. The pavilions just give you a "taste".

 

[SeaBase86]

If you're a Disney fan, and you spend any time on the discussion forums on this and the other sites out there, you've surely noticed all the WDW bashing that's been going on out there. The numbers out of Orlando seem to be reflecting the general "been there, done that" mentality of the general public towards WDW. It might be that 2010 will go down as the year that pushed Burbank to finally make some needed changes at this behemoth of a resort. Will Iger and/or Staggs finally step up and make some meaningful management changes at the company's flagship resort? Could we be on the verge of a WDW Renaissance? Can The Disney Company reinvent WDW the way they're reinventing DCA out west, or will they even bother? It's seems that WDW is at that point where something MAJOR needs to be done, or it might be too late to turn the tide. What are your thoughts?

To answer your questions:
Q: Will Iger and/or Staggs finally step up and make some meaningful management changes at the company's flagship resort?
A: No

Q: Could we be on the verge of a WDW Renaissance?
A: Renaissance? Yeah right. Not without Eisner we aren't.

Q: Can The Disney Company reinvent WDW the way they're reinventing DCA out west, or will they even bother?
A: They can but they won't. What's the point in their minds. Mk has 17 million people visiting the place.

Q: What are your thoughts?
A: Well, heres what I say. Disney needs to get back to spending money on the big things, and when i say big I mean attractions enough of these shop and restaurant refurbs, attractions will bring in the people who will spend money. And I don't mean E tickets I mean strong and solid C and D tickets. Those are what keep the people in the parks (i.e. Toy Story Mania!). Also enough with this DVC expansion. People aren't going to stay at a resort with these less than magical attractions. Further for all of those who were saying Harry Potter would do nothing, eat your words now. The boy wizard is making a KILLING. He's selling wands, t shirts, hats. While Disney is marketing a bear. What a counter attack . What WDW needs is someone who will take a risk. Someone who is willing to go against the tide. Universal took a risk that Disney didn't want to. And look at it now. I mean it's not even on the level Disney could do (IMO) and it's making thousands by the day. I mean you one of the most innovative coasters on the planet and Disney is making a princess forest. What a comeback. For all those who say the FLE isn't a comeback, it is. You could give me facts or whatever you want but you best believe this is Disney attempting to "respond" to Mr. Potter. To sum it all up we will not be seeing anything new or exciting in WDW for awhile. Us loyal fans will stay while millions of first timers to Orlando will become Universal fanatics. WDW's time as we know it (until something changes) is setting.

And that's the truth RUTH!

 

[flavious27]

As a single park, Disneyland is considered the flagship park. And rightly so.

Personally I`d rate Disneyland Parc in Paris the second. I can`t judge Tokyo Disneyland yet.

But as resorts as a whole go, Orlando is classed the flagship resort.

They were paid off months ago. It`s been that successful.

They sold 2.5 - 4 million extra tickets in 3 months time? You know IOA only had 4.6 million guests in 2009.

 

[GLaDOS]

They sold 2.5 - 4 million extra tickets in 3 months time? You know IOA only had 4.6 million guests in 2009.

Huh?:veryconfu

Park revenue mostly does not come from ticket sales and attendance. It comes from merchandise sales.:wave:

 

[TarzanRocked99-]

^
exactly the huge spike in ticket sales is just the tip of the iceberg. Its the off the charts merch sales that fully paid off the investment in just a few months time.

And yes the expansion is happening and currently in planning stages.

 

[flavious27]

To answer your questions:
Q: Will Iger and/or Staggs finally step up and make some meaningful management changes at the company's flagship resort?
A: No

Q: Could we be on the verge of a WDW Renaissance?
A: Renaissance? Yeah right. Not without Eisner we aren't.

Q: Can The Disney Company reinvent WDW the way they're reinventing DCA out west, or will they even bother?
A: They can but they won't. What's the point in their minds. Mk has 17 million people visiting the place.

Q: What are your thoughts?
A: Well, heres what I say. Disney needs to get back to spending money on the big things, and when i say big I mean attractions enough of these shop and restaurant refurbs, attractions will bring in the people who will spend money. And I don't mean E tickets I mean strong and solid C and D tickets. Those are what keep the people in the parks (i.e. Toy Story Mania!). Also enough with this DVC expansion. People aren't going to stay at a resort with these less than magical attractions. Further for all of those who were saying Harry Potter would do nothing, eat your words now. The boy wizard is making a KILLING. He's selling wands, t shirts, hats. While Disney is marketing a bear. What a counter attack . What WDW needs is someone who will take a risk. Someone who is willing to go against the tide. Universal took a risk that Disney didn't want to. And look at it now. I mean it's not even on the level Disney could do (IMO) and it's making thousands by the day. I mean you one of the most innovative coasters on the planet and Disney is making a princess forest. What a comeback. For all those who say the FLE isn't a comeback, it is. You could give me facts or whatever you want but you best believe this is Disney attempting to "respond" to Mr. Potter. To sum it all up we will not be seeing anything new or exciting in WDW for awhile. Us loyal fans will stay while millions of first timers to Orlando will become Universal fanatics. WDW's time as we know it (until something changes) is setting.

And that's the truth RUTH!

The Disney Decade brought us what to wdw? The eyesores of Dolphin and Swan, WL, splash mountain (based on a movie the company is offended by), alien encounter (closed a long time ago), the deluxe boradwalk hotel, ak, and dvc.

MK isn't a museum, but there is only so much room they have to built attractions. it doesn't seem like FF will compete against wwhp but how popular do you really think wwhp will be in 5 years? FF is based on franchises that have stood the test of time and americans consider them timeless classics. do you really see kids running into ioa dressed in Gryffindor garb 20 years from now the same way that little girls are dressed in belle dresses? And that is based on a single movie, not a 8 film series.

 

[jt04]

They were paid off months ago. It`s been that successful.

I tend not to doubt anything you say but it has only been open "months". This claim is very difficult to believe.

If it were to be true however I think Disney would be falling all over itself too build projects equally compelling or even superior to TWWoHP.

 

[flavious27]

Huh?:veryconfu

Park revenue mostly does not come from ticket sales and attendance. It comes from merchandise sales.:wave:

Universal is not making that much profit from $30 wands and $8 cream sodas, neither are is it enough to make $200 million+. A one day park ticket at IOA is about 80, guests will spend maybe 30 each. If it is all profit for universal, which it is not, they would have needed to sell and get 1.8 million people extra through the gates in 3 months. That would be about 20k extra people per day in a park that averages 12k. If IOA increased their attendance by 166%, they would have taken out ads in every paper proclaiming their "victory" over the mouse. A more realistic figure would be 2.5 - 4 million guests because of how much universal needs to pay for licensing along with all of the costs to staff and maintain wwhp. And if that was true, well same thing about universal boosting of their newly found fortunes.

 

[SeaCastle]

The Disney Decade brought us what to wdw? The eyesores of Dolphin and Swan, WL, splash mountain (based on a movie the company is offended by), alien encounter (closed a long time ago), the deluxe boradwalk hotel, ak, and dvc.

Are you honestly trying to put a negative spin on the construction of Splash Mountain? The Disney Decade also increased hotel capacity four-fold, brought us the Tower of Terror (and the entire MGM Studios as a whole), new recreation options, the Animal Kingdom, and more. Yes, the Swan and Dolphin are eyesores. But compared to all of the additions WDW received, I'm not about to complain about how bad the Disney Decade was.

MK isn't a museum, but there is only so much room they have to built attractions. it doesn't seem like FF will compete against wwhp but how popular do you really think wwhp will be in 5 years? FF is based on franchises that have stood the test of time and americans consider them timeless classics. do you really see kids running into ioa dressed in Gryffindor garb 20 years from now the same way that little girls are dressed in belle dresses? And that is based on a single movie, not a 8 film series.

But it's just not the Magic Kingdom. It's EPCOT, MGM Studios, and the Animal Kingdom, too, and New Fantasyland wasn't meant to compete against Wizarding World. It was a long-delayed answer to a lack of capacity in Fantasyland.

I can't believe we're going back to the whole Harry-Potter-is-a-fad debate. You have no idea how many people asked me if I was going to Harry Potter world when I said I went to Florida on vacation. Everyone I know that is going to Florida is going for Harry Potter. I highly doubt Blackstone and Universal Studios management would be spending hundreds of millions of dollars on a Harry Potter-themed land if it was indeed a fad. Not to mention the success of rides doesn't have to stem from the success of movies, but that's an entirely different discussion.

 

[marni1971]

I tend not to doubt anything you say but it has only been open "months". This claim is very difficult to believe.

If it were to be true however I think Disney would be falling all over itself too build projects equally compelling or even superior to TWWoHP.

I`ll rephrase it. By September the outlay had been paid for. Be that in attendence, stores, food or future bookings. Either way, Uni were very very happy by fall.

 

[jt04]

I`ll rephrase it. By September the outlay had been paid for. Be that in attendence, stores, food or future bookings. Either way, Uni were very very happy by fall.

Still, if this is correct then it means Disney is not tapping into a massive market out there.

I guess I can't say it strongly enough that if this is correct that Iger et al have to be completely rethinking future capital spending. And my guess would be that Mysterious Island, Carsland, Austrailia and a reworking of Future World and Tomorrowland will be greenlighted soon. And the new Space Mountain too. :lol:

Seriously.

 

[TP2000]

As a single park, Disneyland is considered the flagship park. And rightly so.

Ain't that the truth! I knew you'd love Disneyland once you visited it for the first time. It's truly the flagship of the fleet, and so deserving of that title. The Happiest Place on Earth. Walt Disney's Magic Kingdom. Disneyland USA. Whatever you call it, it's a magnificent flagship.

They were paid off months ago. It`s been that successful.

That's amazing! But it makes sense.

My January 2011 trip has evolved to the point where I'm now staying two nights at the Hard Rock Hotel at Universal Orlando, a place I've never been to before and never thought I'd actually bother to stay on property at. I want to check out this Potter thing, and see the rest of Universal Orlando. So there I am, booked and ready for a couple nights at Universal Orlando, which are nights and money 'stolen' from time I would have normally spent at WDW property.

 

[TarzanRocked99-]

Universal is not making that much profit from $30 wands and $8 cream sodas, neither are is it enough to make $200 million+. A one day park ticket at IOA is about 80, guests will spend maybe 30 each. If it is all profit for universal, which it is not, they would have needed to sell and get 1.8 million people extra through the gates in 3 months. That would be about 20k extra people per day in a park that averages 12k. If IOA increased their attendance by 166%, they would have taken out ads in every paper proclaiming their "victory" over the mouse. A more realistic figure would be 2.5 - 4 million guests because of how much universal needs to pay for licensing along with all of the costs to staff and maintain wwhp. And if that was true, well same thing about universal boosting of their newly found fortunes.

You are surprisingly accurate actually. IOA has been averaging 30k daily in attendance since June which is roughly a 20k increase over daily attendance last year.

 

[SeaBase86]

The Disney Decade brought us what to wdw? The eyesores of Dolphin and Swan, WL, splash mountain (based on a movie the company is offended by), alien encounter (closed a long time ago), the deluxe boradwalk hotel, ak, and dvc.

MK isn't a museum, but there is only so much room they have to built attractions. it doesn't seem like FF will compete against wwhp but how popular do you really think wwhp will be in 5 years? FF is based on franchises that have stood the test of time and americans consider them timeless classics. do you really see kids running into ioa dressed in Gryffindor garb 20 years from now the same way that little girls are dressed in belle dresses? And that is based on a single movie, not a 8 film series.

From your post it seems you are implicitly implying that the Disney decade was a failure. Which I totally, totally disagree with.

This is what the Disney decade brought to WDW alone:
Animal Kingdom
Splash Mountain
Buzz Lightyear Space Ranger Spin
Tower of Terror
Rock N Roller Coaster
Test Track
The West Side to Downtown Disney
The Wilderness Lodge
Old Key West
DVC
Boardwalk
Carousel Of Progress


That list alone is more of accomplishment then what has been placed in WDW since 2000. Nothing measures to that.

Also please I ask that you place aside your love for Disney and look at it in a real way. HARRY POTTER HAS BEEN OUT FOR A DECADE and it hasn't gone out of style. And I'm sure it won't go out of style for another decade. Because scholastic will do what Disney does. Keep re realsing the books to a younger generation so it will create a new generation of Potter Fanatics. I mean come on people Harry Potter is the closest thing to Star Wars (even though it will never match it).

 

[Ciciwoowoo]

As it stands, right now my family's preliminary plans for our Fall 2011 trip to Orlando have changed from our normal trip. We are DVC owners and spend a week at WDW normally. This time, we are going to purchase tickets to Universal and Sea World, and just do the MK during one of their after hour parties. We might buy a one day ticket to EPCOT. Thats it from us. We will still be staying at the DVC resort, so they may get some food money from us. But we are going to have a car, and will most likely be spending the bulk of our money eating off property.

We are just one family. We love Disney. But, nothing is really new and we've only been to Universal once, long ago.

 

[Skipper03]

As a single park, Disneyland is considered the flagship park. And rightly so.

Personally I`d rate Disneyland Parc in Paris the second. I can`t judge Tokyo Disneyland yet.

But as resorts as a whole go, Orlando is classed the flagship resort.

They were paid off months ago. It`s been that successful.

DL the flagship park? Again it's the original and provides a fantastic legacy, and is still very popular; but WDW MK is the flagship park in the center of the flagship resort. Most of that has to do with the amount of total resort space.

Paris as second? I thought we were discussing the actual numbers and general public's perspective... your personal opinion isn't shared by many.

 

[T-1MILLION]

Universal is not making that much profit from $30 wands and $8 cream sodas, neither are is it enough to make $200 million+. A one day park ticket at IOA is about 80, guests will spend maybe 30 each. If it is all profit for universal, which it is not, they would have needed to sell and get 1.8 million people extra through the gates in 3 months. That would be about 20k extra people per day in a park that averages 12k. If IOA increased their attendance by 166%, they would have taken out ads in every paper proclaiming their "victory" over the mouse. A more realistic figure would be 2.5 - 4 million guests because of how much universal needs to pay for licensing along with all of the costs to staff and maintain wwhp. And if that was true, well same thing about universal boosting of their newly found fortunes.

Parking, Hotels for many. People need to eat and they are gonna do it at the resort. You also clearly have no ideas of profit margins if you think that is not a healthy gap on things like wands and butterbeer. Something else to consider. The most popular ride right now exits through a gift shop full of on ride photo options and gifts ranging from five dollars to 400.

Butterbeer cost Universal around 50 cents a cup(t if that and that is even including the plastic cup. For a regular priced butterbeer its just under 4 dollars. There is ALWAYS a line of some form at all three locations. That is not counting the up charge they get a lot of people with for the souvinier butterbeer mugs.

A pygmy puff, which is a stuffed animal representation of creatures from the same name from the books is sold more than once every five min. That is quite literal and that is slower times. I heard one adopted about every 2 min on one of my last trips. Its amazing. They are around 20 bucks and like most plushies are made for dirt cheap overseas. They honestly had a hard time over the summer keeping those things on the shelf. Pumpkin Juice. Five dollars a bottle. Not as big profit margin there but sitll making at least 3 dollars off of every person who buys it. Chocolate Frogs. Huge candy ten bucks a piece. You get a nice cardboard box and a large solid chocolate frog with a holographic card. Those sell by the hundreds a day. I could go on and on but there is no point.

If they were not making huge profit margins, they would not be selling them.

Forbidden Journey has likely reached near 3 on its way to 4 million riders by now. It had already had over a million riders in August.

Potter has performed better than even Universal expected it would right off the bat.


Potter cost between 200 and 300 million as a project total from every where I have heard. WB gets a percentage but Uni would not do it if it was not a great deal and WB does nothing but make sure things are up to standard and take their bits. You get an extra 3 to 4 million people through those gates spending around 80 dollars on average (taking in discounts its about 80 on average) than you have already well on your way. That is presuming they spend one day, and that is not taking into account food, beverage, and merchandise as well as onsite loding.

Potter if not already, will see a profit very very soon. And its going to be a heavy one.

 

[flavious27]

Are you honestly trying to put a negative spin on the construction of Splash Mountain? The Disney Decade also increased hotel capacity four-fold, brought us the Tower of Terror (and the entire MGM Studios as a whole), new recreation options, the Animal Kingdom, and more. Yes, the Swan and Dolphin are eyesores. But compared to all of the additions WDW received, I'm not about to complain about how bad the Disney Decade was.



But it's just not the Magic Kingdom. It's EPCOT, MGM Studios, and the Animal Kingdom, too, and New Fantasyland wasn't meant to compete against Wizarding World. It was a long-delayed answer to a lack of capacity in Fantasyland.

I can't believe we're going back to the whole Harry-Potter-is-a-fad debate. You have no idea how many people asked me if I was going to Harry Potter world when I said I went to Florida on vacation. Everyone I know that is going to Florida is going for Harry Potter. I highly doubt Blackstone and Universal Studios management would be spending hundreds of millions of dollars on a Harry Potter-themed land if it was indeed a fad. Not to mention the success of rides doesn't have to stem from the success of movies, but that's an entirely different discussion.

DHS was opened in 89. Disney Decade was prepped to be alot more than what was delivered to WDW. It did bring disney outside of the us, but wdw got shortchanged what was envisioned along with dl also (wescot and DisneySeas both were killed). Saying that only eisner will start a new renaissance only means more hotels and less new attractions then what was promised.

HP will still be a fad after the last movie is shown. People are asking about wwhp now because it opened 3 months ago and they have not expreinced it yet. in 5 years after people that wanted to see it have seen it, will it grow park admission? no. all wwhp is is a bunch of well themed stores and two restaurant a new ride and two rethemed rides. people are not going to repeatedly spend thousands to fly down to ride two coasters that are over 10 years old, wait in line for an hour to ride a 90 second ride and spend $8 on a cream soda.

IOA's attendance has been slipping until june of this year because universal does not know how to run and maintain a thrill park. look at great adventure and cedar point, they know that the way to sustain interest is to add a new ride every year.